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Bashing a label, or avoiding the bad vibes? What would you do?
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saintcarl
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
209
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 01:16
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alright enough suspense please spill the beans
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AumShantiAum
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
911
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 01:20
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seriously out with it already
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 04:46
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1189
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 05:42
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it depends on what happened, or how hard they screwed you.
can you describe the incident, and then we will decide if its worth you saying who it is?
 http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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squirm
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
254
Posts :
2638
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 06:12
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 07:49
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It is just interesting what kinds of answers I got when I asked to get copies of the quarterly sales statements for my EP Yawning (from Icarus Creations aka Plusquam sublabel aka Thomas Vitali, aka Psy bitch (or Nina) as is stated in the contract).
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After more than half a year I asked him to see sales statements of the EP he published, after the second email was not replied to, I stated in a third email that I have contacts in Munich and that I could send someone by to clear things up and ask for those statements, the guy became completely paranoid, saying for me to go ahead and "bomb his door in", and that he had friends in high places where he could smear my name, it went on and on.
He wired Cad $6.80 into my paypal account, after his third hate email to me, but failed to show me the sales list, as agreed to in the contract he sent me...
So far I still have no idea how many copies he sold.
Upon my question if he had done anything in marketing, I got replies reminiscent of someone deranged and paranoid. He continued to tell me what a loser and so on I am, but never replied to my question. So in essence that to me and the fact that other than on beatport I never saw anything from him about my EP anywhere, facebook or forum or otherwise. It definitely makes me wonder why he even released the music, if he did not even seem interested in promoting it in any way.
One of the tracks got re released on a VA, he gave me no info about it, I stumbled across it completely by accident. While his contract states that I get royalties for that too, all I got from him was more slander and anger. And no reply regarding the matter itself. So I guess I'll cut my losses once more and move on.
It destroys my belief in this scene, that legitimate questions like:
"I would be interested to know what in terms of promotion you actually did,
regarding my EP?
It was a friendly but absolutely valid question, and I'd like it answered
please. This time in a civilized manner, if that is at all possible with
you...
Thank you.
Upavas"
get replies like:
"I tell you something:
1) I do not need at all inform you about a license I do on an exclusively
singed track
2) You can be happy when I spread your name to other compilation and rise
your name
3) you are driving directly to my zero tolerance list which means you don’t
get any foot on the ground if you provocate me
4) Fuck forum posts - they mean NOTHING, you have no idea about business and
marketing, so what the hell you tell me !?!?!
5) if you "...come to Grünwald" what do you expect to make ? Bomb my door or
what ? And do you really think I LIVE THERE ? There is just the office - you
can come from 8 am - 5 pm, it is open.
I tell jill now to send you stats an if the payment is exceeding 40 USD we
pay to paypal - otherwise it will be collected to next quarter like stated
in the contract."
So essentially I have no way of knowing what he actually sold, and what he actually did in terms of promotion. I had the EP mastered, so he did not even have to pay for that.
It makes me wonder if I should bother with a label at all, if they don't even promote the sound I give them on any level whatsoever, or tell me what happened with it.
I might as well release it on bandcamp, chances are likely the same amount of people might be interested than on a label without promotion.
I am seriously considering to release the EP on Ekto, but have to see if that is possible first.
Lets see how many "told you so" and "how could you release with him", "hahaha" etcetera will be raining down on me.
Does it make sense at all to even bother releasing through a label? My next upcoming release is an ambient album, I have a different label that is interested, and even talks to me about marketing and shares ideas in a constructive manner, but at this point I really don't know whether to entrust anyone with it anymore, after my latest label experience... it feels like pearls before swine...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 13:03
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one more reason to say fuck all this wanna be labels. The labels died before last milenium , time to wake up.This is nonsense. Do your own thing , makes less problems.
And no matter how many guys want to bite me now - I laugh from the innermost . Do what you like but expect nothing serious if you are an artist and get a 'contract' 'signed' lol today and than in psytrance territory - this is a great joke . Is nice positive joke.
You guys talk about marketing adverts and such.. Is tis really such a huge help if you got some banners for your albums on any internet sides? .. I doubt that. It is a very small help.
the people that want to give you someting back would find you anyways & the big and avarage rest will downlaod it for free anyways.
the only advantage as I believe it might be one is that some labels or better said some guys that want something from you got good contacts and can help you get on some flyers and get invited to some psyevents. The album thing, contracts etc and all this problems afterwards are hilirious.
I'm not sure how it works in beatport, since I dont sell anything for now and Im interested to sell stuff in other format anyways but if beatport allows to sell your stuff only if you are on a label than it sucks.
Exceptions exist always but these are only exceptions I'm sorry for your stress.Psynina absolutely sucks.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
1614
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 14:23
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only send tracks to labels u know, and people who really care about ur sound, personally my best experiences have been with friends who litreaaly ask for 1 track for a va or whatever,, and those tracks somehow always come out special, when the people who ask for it care about it, and actually want your work on a compilation or whatever. so send to only ppl who ask specifically ask for ur work. i dont know shit about promotion , marketing sales or any other.
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 15:55
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Labels like the one you described above who just release tons of music, recycled music and don't care at all about what they release are basically working as small aggregators and make money from the numbers. The more they release the more money they make. Long tail theory, etc.
Work with a label only if you think that what it can give you in terms of musical and production feedback, exposure, advice, promotion, distribution, respectability, connections, bookings etc. is worth the percentage of the income you'll give them.
There are still serious labels around that are worth releasing with.
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Nov 8, 2011 20:56
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Shahar shares some wise words on this topic. I'd advise never releasing with a content farm like the Psynina empire. If you feel you have to at least demand to have your rights returned to you after six months or a year. Smoke Sign did this with Geomagnetic, which is why I've posted several of his Beatport releases on Ektoplazm. I don't like getting in the midst of fresh conflicts like this, however. I test fate enough as it is 
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a3k
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
269
Posts :
7826
Posted : Nov 9, 2011 00:57
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Quote:
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On 2011-11-08 07:49, Upavas wrote:
Lets see how many "told you so" and "how could you release with him", "hahaha" etcetera will be raining down on me.
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well i actually think people wno´t bash you for this.
i think people are from your side since it is known to many the schemes of Thomas.
what happened to you could have happened to any other musician.
and i think Shahar basicly resumed in a few lines the whole issue.
and i think this is exactly what you are doing now - reflecting on your music and the label deal
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Nov 9, 2011 02:17
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Quote:
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well i actually think people wno´t bash you for this.
i think people are from your side since it is known to many the schemes of Thomas.
what happened to you could have happened to any other musician.
and i think Shahar basicly resumed in a few lines the whole issue.
and i think this is exactly what you are doing now - reflecting on your music and the label deal
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Yeah, I am just kinda pissed off at myself for falling into the same trap... once again.
Shahar indeed summed it up quite nicely, yes. And My values as far as how to get music released have changed drastically, so in that way one could call it almost a good thing that it happened... though not quite...
I can say after this experience that I will look much more at these points, what does the label do for you in return for the percentage they get, rather than just getting it out there. And I really hope that all you other artists out there heed Shahars advice, it is a very good one, and I hope by giving this information out, I could help someone not to fall into the same trap... !
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Intertia
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
69
Posted : Nov 9, 2011 07:29
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Upavas you did the right thing. We're all on your side.
This is isn't the first time I hear something sketchy from Thomas.
it helps us artists avoid such labels.
People like that ruin the whole feeling.
Some artists are just plain selfish and egocentric and act like Hollywood celebrities...and they treat their fans like shit.
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Nov 10, 2011 06:01
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Gizmo77
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
184
Posted : Nov 28, 2011 19:44
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