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!! ** Autobiography of a Yogi ** !!
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*Karma Cola*
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
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2314
Posted : Mar 4, 2006 22:04
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On 2006-03-04 09:59, h2so4 wrote:
@karma: I didnt understand what you asked to @sorceress. You mean Indians in US are becoming more westernised or vice versa? Care to elaborate so that I could put my thoughts on the subject....
@karma: Nah...i didnt hear about the news. Do you havea link for the same? I am more of a Slashdot.com kind of news reader 
OMFG......I just realised that I have crossed 500 posts in less than a year.
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Shabash biddu.. Shabash!!! 
Ok, so wat i meant by my question was that, do we as a generation seek to refute our heritage? Are we embarassed by our culture in some ways (not all the time) and do we not seek to westernize ourselves even more in the world. In fact, the more westernized you are, is that a mark of success and proper upbringin?
  ~*** You can tell By the way i use my walk, Im a woman's man, No time to Talk***~ |
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sorceress
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
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833
Posted : Mar 5, 2006 19:58
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On 2006-03-03 21:03, *Karma Cola* wrote:
@sorceress
Do you believe that we 'indians' are able to embrace western ideals and at the same time accept that we shall never be one of them? I ask this, because i have been living abroad for the last 4 years and i do see the gaping hole in which many of us are stuck. In fact, Japan is the only nation i have seen that are truly proud of their culture and seek to *preserve* it.
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i have been contemplating aba this my self.
and to my pleasent surprise it would mostly be the first generation Indians in Amrika who are torn between diversities coz for all who were born in Amrika and went to school there and then did college Amrika and the way of living is it. they Know there roots are from India and accept it if taught right by there parents even respect the fact that they are from a truly amazing country which is developing at such a fast pace and most that i have met would wanna come and see it or would wanna come and see it again and again.
as for the first generations of Indians who just left for Amrika after living for some time in India am sure it is a lil difficult(u could be excited or scared aba it may be even both at the same time) to start life all over again... that is from understanding a new currency to a new way to eat and what to eat to a different time to sleep to a diff way to drive(on the right) to the yankee lingo to making new friends. i do feel indians are more indians in Amrika... there houses are decorated with more Indian Stuff in a more ethnic way they all believe in having a bigger Mandir here, they would still watch Zee and read TOI online to keep up with India, at weddings people actually perform that is sing or dance on Desi music, they do dance more on Punjabi or desi music, stick together, they constantly talk about india, would like to talk in HIndi or Punjabi... i have been getting bad looks for not being fluent in my Pubjabi speaking skils... i actually ihave to give them an explaination that coz my father has been in the army we never stayed in Punjab hence dont know it so well.
Damn i had to get out of the country to find out why Israelis stick together when they are in Goa or manali.
seeing another Desi(that is what we refer to each other in Amrika)here could be quite a bliss and specially if he is at work or school with ya then u have a fren without even trying... we can bitch about any one in our own language then
gaping holes... i thought they were bigger for me In India when being a part of it i felt like a class apart now being away i know i am one of us.
people here are surprised when they talk to me... for new in America u have great English... man thats all we ever spoke in English is our constitutional work language too.
infact even my maths is supirior to most...
so the story goes.
after i rapped up with all at a pralour my bill was about $54 so i gave the woman three $20 bills and four $4 Bills and asked her to gimme $10 Back... and she went insane wokring on her calculator the generation is so dependent on calculators... lil stuff that even fisher woman is so fast at in India.
i am very very Proud Indian who loves Psychedelic Music and have been dancing life a nut case on some very very old PunJabi Music Offlate and had to leave my roots behind to see the larger picture and am so glad i did
Dont thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously use your intelligence
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theherbman420
Started Topics :
2
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179
Posted : Mar 5, 2006 20:28
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i havent kept up with this thread of late, but does anyone here read Murakami?
Ive recently started reading his works and its the most distinctive writing I have come across...its hard to classify it into a genre but if i had to, i would call it dream realism fiction...he has a minimalist style of writing and i'll be honest, some of it does get a bit bizzarre at times. personally, i love it, the dream like sequences, the strange goings on, but its probably not for everyone.
I think if youve never read a Murakami book, you can start with Norwegian Wood (yea, like the beatles song). its a beautiful book and i highly recommend it.
sorry about the tangent...
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~trippin' over broken beats~
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acidity
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
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1491
Posted : Mar 6, 2006 10:02
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| bill was about $54 so i gave the woman three $20 bills and four $4 Bills |
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Isnt that $76? You need to get back 22$
I totally agree with what sorceress is telling. Its the first generation Indians who have all the confusion.
But I believe overprotecting your cultures in a foreign country is too much. I think one should assimilate with the things where he is doing. Obviously, one should never forget their roots but sometimes elder peopls overbearance to not accpet anything western is too much. It is due to our open mind that we are a global phenomena. It is due to our grasp of English that we are beating China in software industry and related ones.....
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Who said that?
It is quite true too these days. Not knowing hindi today is OK but not knowing English is complete NAH NAH!
Discover.Vote.Share() - http://www.beamto.us |
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theherbman420
Started Topics :
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179
Posted : Mar 6, 2006 12:26
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Its the first generation Indians who have all the confusion.
But I believe overprotecting your cultures in a foreign country is too much. I think one should assimilate with the things where he is doing. Obviously, one should never forget their roots but sometimes elder peopls overbearance to not accpet anything western is too much. It is due to our open mind that we are a global phenomena. It is due to our grasp of English that we are beating China in software industry and related ones.....
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wholeheartedly agree with you mate! theres no room for being reactionary and clinging to old values and styles of being. in todays global economy its imperative for people to be able to adapt and assimilate into whatever culture theyre thrown in.
some of my uncles and aunts who moved to amrika and had kids there, i feel their kids are a much more confused lot. their parents wanted them to grow up in that culture, but once they were home from school or college, they were supposed to switch gears and suddenly be in tune with their 'indian-ness'. being able to adapt is one thing. if you are confident about your roots and know where you come from, its easy for you to understand other cultures and do things that you enjoy without any guilt or paranoia that "yeh hamare kulture mein nahin hota". but when parents transfer their own insecurities onto their kids, it becomes increasingly difficult for them, since theyre already having to deal with trying to fit-in.
so i think, second generation indians abroad have a more difficult time trying to juggle these values as opposed to the kind that know where theyre from. If you are always sure of your own identity, you will never have these issues IMHO.
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~trippin' over broken beats~
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sorceress
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
833
Posted : Mar 6, 2006 18:08
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| after i rapped up with all at a pralour my bill was about $54 so i gave the woman three $20 bills and four $4 Bills and asked her to gimme $10 Back... and she went insane wokring on her calculator the generation is so dependent on calculators... lil stuff that even fisher woman is so fast at in India.
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| Isnt that $76? You need to get back 22$
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@ H2so4 - see what i mean we are good at maths
my mistake i got a lil overconfident here i guess. i gave three $20 bills making it $60 and four $1 bills making that $4 and adding the two i gave her $64. hence she could give me back a $10 bill which she did
Dont thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously use your intelligence
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sorceress
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
833
Posted : Mar 6, 2006 19:28
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| In fact, the more westernized you are, is that a mark of success and proper upbringin? |
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This Statement is true
and am not talking aba all those who use paper to clean there shitty arse instead of water.
am talking about individuals who respect them selves and others hence respect there individuality and others hence accept the differences and respect all cultures.
Being westernized would be to be more accommodative and open to other cultures… we learn, understand absorb and move forward.
Being Multilingual is being westernized, being aware of your own roots and at the same time knowing what is happening in the world is also more westernized, having the capabilities to utilize all the worlds recourses that have been provided to you by the environment and your own good means and will.
About the people who do not know how to speak in English… the only thing I can say is they are either lazy or of limited means and in both cases they would never be westernised.
India, China and other developing countries are competing with developing countries so westernization is essential.
Mahatma Gandhi wore his Dhotti when he went abroad (it was snowing then) he did fall ill after that. But he did not regret. If u wanna live do it with ability and style mare surviving is for others.
in one of the posts i read it was Bharath who wrote that india has to come up in the psy scene with its very own style or type of it... made a whole lot of sense then and does even today too. we have to have our own thought process atleast
@ Karma – in Amrika they say
African Americans would do what whites don’t do
Mexicans would do what African Americans wont do
But Indians… u would see them everywhere doing everything
Makes one feel they are the only ones working In Amrika
i read this article recently in the paper and even discussed it at length with one of my uncle - reverse migration is the talk of the town today... many have already left america or are plannning to leave it to get back to India which is the land of oppertunities today. all that u touch with zeal will turn into gold and the gold will multiply fast and easy.
every morning when the Gazelle wakes up
it knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed
every morning the lion wakes up
it knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death
it does not matter whether u are a lion or a gazelle
when the sun comes up u better start running
other countries did pull up their sock when they saw us
Jai Hind Dont thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously use your intelligence
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MellonCollie
Started Topics :
6
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175
Posted : Mar 7, 2006 01:46
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Who said the M word? Murakami is AWESOMELY BIZARRE. Marry me!! Norwegin Wood, Dance dance dance and I started the wild sheep chase yesterday. I am hooooooked. I want to go to Japan - as a culture they intrigue me so much. Read Salman Rushdies 'The ground beneath her feet'. Its classic, muarakmish bizzare, combining bombay culture, rock and roll, hoffman and just about everything from the last fifty years. This sounds familiar, I cant stop recommending this book. READ it!!
The original home of the confused Indian is England. Or as we are called here the Asians. Between the rough as hell innit bruv accents, the ghetto mentality to stick together, and the balls to say I cant date white girls or boys cos' they are so different from us culturally. Wait a minute - you're English, mate. By definitely you were born and raised here - hence British. Culturally how different can a white and brown english person be? It's general bullshit like this makes me so intolerant of pretty much most english indian kids - sorry for the rest who escape my stereotype! Don't get me wrong, some of my closest friends here are Asian but the typical definition....just makes my blood boil. Really - to be shocked at a normal Indian person out on a night in the town because you're parents drilled in you that India is old school, conservative and anti 'western'?
I just seem to feel and have experienced that most Indians who spend their younger formative years outside India grow up slightly stranger then us. Brought up in the WEST and being forced to live upto 4 decade old definition of India?
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
The Darkness, it lies waiting. Dormant but ever ready...to envelope us all. Embrace it or denounce it, one must pick a path. |
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*Karma Cola*
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
2314
Posted : Mar 7, 2006 09:37
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On 2006-03-07 01:46, MellonCollie wrote:
Read Salman Rushdies 'The ground beneath her feet'. Its classic, muarakmish bizzare, combining bombay culture, rock and roll, hoffman and just about everything from the last fifty years. This sounds familiar, I cant stop recommending this book. READ it!!
I just seem to feel and have experienced that most Indians who spend their younger formative years outside India grow up slightly stranger then us. Brought up in the WEST and being forced to live upto 4 decade old definition of India?
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tru dat!! Rushdie is genius. my fav is Fury tho.
As for the Abcd's or bbcd's.. Man ive met some that are soooo chav!!! its quite strikin how they all like "aiight n*gga" and then head home to "baby, zara dal pass karo". lol!
~*** You can tell By the way i use my walk, Im a woman's man, No time to Talk***~ |
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acidity
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
1491
Posted : Mar 7, 2006 12:26
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MellonCollie
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
175
Posted : Mar 7, 2006 19:22
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Ah ha ha. I am racist! It's an honest revelation - I by far (EXCEPTIONS are always always around) just dislike the BBCD's in England. As an ethnic community - they are bigoted, entirely racist (towards white people - go figure), sexist and so fucking sleazy. I had to take a driver improvement course today - yeh yeh I crashed my car. And the dude sitting next to me and I got talking about England and life for people whos roots are from the subcontinent. As usual I was whining about the wankers who seem to populate every night out or club we go to - and how they bug asian girls. And the dude was like - yeh well, if you're wearing a skirt and you're brown and smoking and drinking like you - then what are the asian guys supposed to think. His exact words were ' White girls we don't care about them - its given that they appear easy' but an Indian girl just out chilling and in revealing clothes is straight away easy peasy so why not grab her ass and see if we have a chance.
AHAH. And I can't believe i was posting here yesterday - this guy just reconfirmed most of my views. ARG :S It made me wonder how many guys back home think like this - and I could definitely rule out all of my friends and acquintenances... what do you guys think?
Fury is a good one and so is the moors last sigh. Definitely definitely read a wild sheep chase by Murakami - I just finished reading and its phenomenal!
KC - You've obviously spent time in the UK - to be able to identify chavs - the sports gear and no sports, the hoodie and the fred perry/burberry caps. God how i hate these fucking townies!
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
The Darkness, it lies waiting. Dormant but ever ready...to envelope us all. Embrace it or denounce it, one must pick a path. |
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
8779
Posted : Mar 7, 2006 19:51
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Oh sad, m actually sad seeing intellectual people & thinkers like all of u who are posting into this thread regularly. Seeing that you all are so much aware, knowledgeable, intellectual, philosophical, humorous & above all a part of PLUR scene are talking these words of categorizations of the souls namely americans, british, black, brown, white, desi, videshi n whateva...... I mean i am more than sure that v all r aware that v r all part of just 1 soul & the divisions & categorizations r just not fair on our part.
Collective Consiouness; remember!!!!
You have had a chance to stay in the west among the 'natives' BUT instead of helping other ignorant souls to find the way you already sorta know about, thats the way to godliness; sadly u have been busy in the same physical world, colour, continent, country, indian, british, american n stuff.........
And please dont mistake this is as 'a go at you guys' its just what i felt while reading your words.....
We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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boomshanthi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
510
Posted : Mar 7, 2006 21:57
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| In fact, the more westernized you are, is that a mark of success and proper upbringin? |
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the statement in question is very subjective... different people will have different opinions about it...
i have to completely agree with sorceress here with everything she said, but at the same time dont think the more westernized you are it is the mark of proper success and upbringing... to a point westernisation and accepting a lot of good aspects of western culture is good... but once you reach that limit, you have to stop... now, how do you know when you reach that point? ask yourselves... your cultural values and upbringing is the key to answer that...
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India, China and other developing countries are competing with developing countries so westernization is essential.
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india, china and other developing countries are competing for sure... but for what? to get developed... not to get westernised... does getting developed essentially mean getting westernised???
now about the confused indians... i dont think it is their fault... it just the blend of two extremely different cultures and you cant expect the by product to be perfect...
We meditate upon the Spiritual Effulgence of That Adorable Supreme Divine Reality, the Source of the Physical, the Astral, and the Heavenly Spheres of Existence. May That Supreme Divine Being enlighten our Intellect So we may realise the Supreme Truth. |
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*Karma Cola*
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
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2314
Posted : Mar 8, 2006 11:35
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Good questions posted by Mithun...
this is exactly where i wanted to this discussion to go.
Do u guys think that we are subconsiously embarassed by our culture in foreign lands? boomshanthi you should be able to answer this, even melloncollie or whoever has lived abroad for a certain time. Is it a 'in your face ' culture that we are apprehensive about?
.. and dogon, dude thanks for puttin this is a different perspective. Markin people in a certain category is definitely not intentional. But certain actions lead to them. For instance, if u were Melloncollie and you experienced what she did, its fair game that you might agree with her.
Anyways, labelin people might not be right, but its inevitable.
~*** You can tell By the way i use my walk, Im a woman's man, No time to Talk***~ |
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MellonCollie
Started Topics :
6
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175
Posted : Mar 8, 2006 15:18
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Are we embarassed? I don't want to put forward a blanket answer for us all...BUT I don't think so. Firstly, because i'm INDIAN and secondly because, India is the most pimp place to be ever. What may be embarassing is a behaviour of a person or group of peoples that are taken to represent true Indian mentality. Are we all ambassadors? I can laugh at common Indian fallacies, make fun of my own accent - but this kind of humour and mocking is only possible when you are really comfortable with who you are.
and thanks Karma. I would not put forward unsubstantiated opinions or views that would seem so harsh unless I had good reason to do so. And I should educate these guys? What the fuck , what for ? If ''un-westernized'' peeps back home can behave with decorum and sanity, whats wrong with behaving this way here!
I dont think the debate should revolve around ideas of westernization of the east. Isn't that reverse colonialism? Im just playing - i dont actually think so, but countries are growing to develop and provide for their citizen and not so that they will fit in with the rest of Developed world. Certain far more appealing 'western' concepts are liberal concepts, and adopting them can be likened to adopting a liberal approach to governance and politics and econimic growth.
And I dont think being more western is a sign of sucessful upbringing. I think good education, good values, respect, these are the signs of a sucessful upbringing, and these are values inherent to any culture or community - not the west or the east only.
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
The Darkness, it lies waiting. Dormant but ever ready...to envelope us all. Embrace it or denounce it, one must pick a path. |
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