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Artists attitude
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micheru
Psychedelic Vocalist
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
121
Posted : Feb 17, 2004 16:29
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"NO PROMOTER NO PARTY, NO PARTY NO GIGS"
hehe no punters-no party, no music- no party, no party-no party...the list is endless. i appreciate that promoters take on a tough job. if i was asked to play in japan for example, and turned up to the airport and had to find my own way to a hotel and book a room i think i would be pretty lost. the language and money are baffling and even finding the party would be a challenge. karnaf it sounds like you have been burned by a bad experience and i am sorry to hear that. still it's probably the best way to learn how to do things the right way for you. if you invited me to come to your country and perform and told me to "get my own fucking room" i would look for other less aggressive people to deal with. as for *that is your job* well perhaps you could define your job as the organiser? many artists i know became artists in the first place because they didn't want a Job. if you want to put on parties and not deal with artists then why not delegate someone to do that for you? the word artists in your original post could easily be subsituted by anything.. why do some *promoters*, *people*, *pixies with orange hair* think they own the world? ;-) if someone treats you nicely and everybody has a good time then you are likely to want to do it again. xpeacex
  In the depth of my soul there is a wordless song. |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Feb 17, 2004 16:31
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Tell us a story then, Detox. Leave out names if you must, but it sounds like you have personal experiences with this that I, for one, want to hear about. I believe contracts are partly a substitute for goodwill in situations where the two parties (ie the artist and the promoter) don't know each other, and are a good way of setting out in advance, and in neutral terms, the conditions of the performance and what is expected on both sides. Obviously enforcing a contract is difficult when the artist and promoter come from different countries, but it is possible to build-in "trust enhancers", such as payment of deposits and 50% of fees before the gig, and an agreement to pay the rest of the fee before the performance takes place.
What are your experiences, Detox? |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Feb 17, 2004 20:10
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Colin i share your passion for stories so here i go,i will leave names aside though cause they dont really mater i think.
1)When i started organising events before two years i had booked a very old and respectable name of the scene for a dj set in Athens and signed papers with him and aggreed all about money and details and stuff.I was supposed to send him 50% advance money three weeks before the event but then suddenly i see a flyer advertising the same artist for a live perfomance in Athens for another organisation just one week before my scheudled event.When i called the artist he told me that a live is tottally different than a dj set and that he didnt thought that i would have a problem about his other booking.I canceled the booking ofcourse (cause people at least here in Greece dont like hearing the same artist in two consecutive weeks) though i worked with that artist in the future with no problems at all.The same think happened with an Israeli group whom i had booked them for a live perfomance and one of the guys played a dj set the week before for another organisation without telling me about that booking in the beggining cause he also thought i wouldnt mind.
2)I have recently paid a Scandinavian artist 50% money advance for a live perfomance and we had aggreed everything and then he calls me to tell me that he cant make it on the party day cause of some personal reasons,since then (more than 2 months) i am still trying to reach him to arrange another date or get my money back.No contract in this situation just for your info,just our words.
3)I made a booking for a very famous group for a tour in a Latin Country recently and the promoters paid half money advance as aggreed but when the group arrived at the Latin Country they had problems with their hotel and food deals plus a party of the three was canceled so they received less money than the money on the contract,they were still happy though cause after all they had a nice time and got good money (though not all) in the end.
4)I have once also payed all money advance for a live perfomance of a group and then just the one guy came,the other one was sleeping at his house LOL.
5)I had two times faced a case where artists got payed all money advance and they never came to Greece cause they missed their planes like they claimed.
6)A very famous french group once aggreed with me to play a live perfomance and then i find out that they had also aggreed with another promoter to play also a live perfomance the week before my scheudled event in the same city.Their explanation was that they had forgot about that second booking.Me and the other promoter were furious and we canceled both bookings LOL
7)Another time an artist came here claiming that his manager didnt payed him the advance money that i send him and he asked me to pay him all the money again and take the advance money back from his manager something that ofcourse i did not accept and he seemed to understand his mistake also after a small conversation we had.In the end he fired his manager and got a new one LOL
Well these are some stories i could come up with,and i am talking for top notch names here not unknown or relatively new artists in the scene.I can also remember artists asking me for crazy things like prostitutes and drugs and 5 star hotels and limos while their stay here.Artists giving me a guest list of 30 people for my party.Artists that were fighting about the time that each one will play and many many more stories.
And because i am no saint i have also to mention the only two occasions at which i was not profesional towards artists.Once where i had booked two artists for an X Mass event and had to cancel their bookings just some days before the event and another time where an artist was not payed at all cause the party was busted.I make up for the first case and keep working with the first two artists and i am trying to make up for the second case artist and give him some money and provide him with some bookings.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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ChoBo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
536
Posted : Jun 3, 2004 06:14
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wow , what an experience detox  |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Jun 3, 2004 08:44
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As long as promoters are booking bands because they like the bands, and not because the band represents a certain monetary value and level of status or clout, then hospitality should come naturally to the promoter because they are an admirer of the artist's work. If there is one thing a "small" scene does not need, it is jaded promoters who are more businessmen than music lovers, taking up space and booking bands they don't even respect enough cover their woman, or to take on a city tour.
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DJ Hoffman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
104
Posted : Jun 3, 2004 11:22
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I think promoters are more greedy at least in my country, some even dont care about the music, they just do it for the money. I dont think artists do this only for money. Maybe some behave like they where Britney Spears but anyway its the host who will put the limits of the hospitality.
for me its this simple
What the organizer should expect: For the artist to play at the desired time of the organizer (unless the organizer tell the artist to play at the time he likes). To play for the amount of time that was settled in the agreements.(unless the artist wants to play more and that is possible without offending other artists in lineup).
What the artist should expect from organizer: Complete payment of the accorded fee plus (yes plus!) , transportation + accomodation&food.(if u pay for hotel i think only one night after the event is reasonable for the artists to rest and go back).
Things that shouldnt be 'requierments' to perform are stupid shit like drugs, prostitutes, limosines, and that silly stuff many request. LOL That they should get themselves indeed  Unless u wanna be very kind and get him his vices, but is not obligatory. Artists shouldnt expect for organizers to be servants or anything like. But organizing parties is a big job also, but many times if u work well and everything else goes ok, orgs earn even more money that artists themselves. So i think there everything paysback.
Just assume your jobs and do them correctly and professionaly and everybody will be happy most of the time. If any part of the agreements is not fullfilled, then there begins the probleems.  |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jun 3, 2004 15:17
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-16 18:49, karnaf wrote:
For me, an artist coming to play is like a businessman - you come to a different country to work - get your own fu#@cking hotel room, get your own entertainment, food, whatever, get your own stuff. Be at the appointed place at the appointed time and play. That's your job.
any party organisers / artists want to reply?
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your way of lookin at thingz is weird...
how much u think artist gets for live set??
now im not talkin mark allen or nick taylor..
just normal trance artist...
well let me tell ya.. it wont b more then 500$ probably and thats also counts expensive
so.. business man wont get out of his home to another country for 4 -5 days and get only 500 $ u must b kiddin me at least drug your artist and pay his hotel..
now.. bring friend or try get more $$ then agreed is sux 4 sure...
anywayz its not business remember who think it does has lost the vibe already... acid party remember? fun drugz beautiful pplz... no business!! |
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Infinite_Sun
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
34
Posted : Jun 3, 2004 21:54
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Detox - sounds like you've had a lot of experience in matters of booking international acts. You said that contracts are tough because you are from different countries but certain international business laws can be applied when dealing.
I'm not too familiar with business in Greece but do actually run a production "company" and sign your sign contracts in the name of the company or do you do it as a sole-prop in your own name?
I know in the US that if you actually register your production company as a business then international acts from most countries can be held liable for such things as trying to raise their fees last moment. (ie - breach of contract and they can be sued in a US court).
Plus by being an actual production company the cost of buying equipment can be depreciated off the taxes (you can write your stereo off your taxes, HAHAHAHAH!) and other expenses are then tax deductable. You can actually make more money paying taxes sometimes if you are a good at finance. |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 4, 2004 00:34
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Infinite_Sun i just created my own label and booking agency,from now on things will be more profesional for sure BUT things are still tough like you know
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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droid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
173
Posted : Jun 4, 2004 15:37
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Totally agree with DETOX.
And maybe the ppl need refresh his memory.
In my case, when i discover this music, after long time involved in other style, i find this music very interesting because you can dance all the night without any idea about the face of the artist who do this track, you don´t need see the stage everytime, and the most important thing, ENJOY THE MUSIC!!! 
In words of Tsuyoshi Suzuki,from the book of 1st Return to the Source Compilation
"this music don´t need stars of idols.."
These attitudes in the end can kill the poor scene whe have
Life, but how to live it!!! |
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Watter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
184
Posted : Jun 4, 2004 22:08
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Hey I only want to say a few things:
1-) About contracts: The problem with them is that even if you are able to prove that the contract is valid it demands money and time for you to run an international sue, thus unprofitable.
2-) The responsibility of the promoter is to the Artist and not to his friends, gf, bf whatever. It IS the promoter responsibility to provide food and drink ( not alcohol) for the Artist. Anything beyond that is just being nice. |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 5, 2004 16:36
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Being nice Watter in one of the aspects of the job hehe
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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