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Anarchy
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1659
Posted : Oct 27, 2011 06:23
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No, I don't thing I was exaggerating. I did not write that everything remains the same. Only the two things I pointed out. Do they not?
And let's not use utopian fiction as evidence. 
I still remember this one post that ended with "Haven't you read 'Ishmael'?!.." That was funny.  |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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108
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Posted : Oct 27, 2011 10:13
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Quote:
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On 2011-10-26 23:25, Login wrote:
Homo sapines has been on earth 200,000 years.
Agriculture, which lead to urbanization, which lead to civlizations has 8,000 years.
We are living like the teenage of humanity, there is no need to be pesimistic about our destiny.
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imo
we are NOWHERE in the teenage humanity..
IF we could anchor ourselve somewhere in history i d say we are in the enderly of the humanity as we know it..
some stuffs that i find amazing :
there were mayan cities to be rumored ( coz science s only theory as well ) of havin lasted more than 2500 years old before bein abandoned ( coz they had the habit of buildin one city and after a long period of time that city would suffer FULL EXODUS and become a ghost town and a new city would be builded somewhere near the old city )...tell me one big city from the modern age that have lasted that long ?
mayans and egypts are often related as HIGH CULTURE. the peak of humanity. the golden age. if they were the golden age we are just the leftover ( which makes sense ).
but the same way the mayans have colapsed, we ( the leftover) are collapsin aswell for the new config...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 27, 2011 10:50
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Quote:
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On 2011-10-27 06:23, Maine Coon wrote:
^
No, I don't thing I was exaggerating. I did not write that everything remains the same. Only the two things I pointed out. Do they not?
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so for what i did undestand... u are in favor of everybody acept things the way they are ... there s no reason to protest...there s nothing wrong in the world and if it had there is nothing u can do ?... things are like they always be and they should stay like that? coz any action s just desilusion ?
if so i think u are more for a garfield than a maine coon...
not considerin that the problem s not realy "those who eat and those who feed".
but the distorted intentions of those who feed. AND THIS HAVE NOT ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME.
even in the modern world...lets talk bout gadafi as exemple....
nato raped gadafi and his ass... but there are researchs sayin gadafi was a great leader...
free house when u just got married...
free energy , free water, free education...
even the junk garbage that polute our world his govern would support the population...
if u wanted to buy a car the govern would pay half the value of it ....
the country had 0 in global debt and their money was based on no interest.
ok we dont know if all this bout him is true...
BUT those who feed not alway have the same intention.
just because the school has taught us in the misery and depressed history of europa ( after christ ) all the leaders were "greedyfatbastard" that doesnt care for population, we were stuck in this stereotype that life s miserable and repressed. which s not true... ( i remember when i used to be in school, how they perceive us to believe that our history from the past in the europe was REALY REALY DARK but the world had a new hero which was USA AND GLOBALIZATION )
what we have lived today in the last generation was just a tiny fraction of frame from a infinite lenght movie that cant be taken as standard to say what the movie s all bout.
( but imo the world would have been a lot cooler if after the mayan colapses, the aztecs were just quicker enough to cross the ocean before the europeans and rape the white man from the top of the world, and we d be livin in a cyber native indigena movie lol )
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1659
Posted : Oct 27, 2011 12:20
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Vermeee,
I agree with you: we all were and still are fed a bunch of bullshit fairy tails instead of history. What you "learn" in history lessons has more to do with the current government in your land than with what actually happened. And this is just one of many things that fit into my theory: the most important things of the material plane are tightly controlled by The Owners. Wall Street, mass media, armed dudes of all kinds - those are just parts of the Machine, its arms and legs - not its brain. You can abolish the banking system and switch to gold. Guess what - it's still The Owners who will benefit most. You can shut down major TV networks and switch to a myriad of independent blogs - it will still soon boil down to Rush Limbach and Rachel Maddow. Close down Detroit's Big Three and give everybody a bicycle - there will be a toll on every road with Ford's logo in it.
Yes, you can change things. Yes, you should try that. You should not just surrender to pessimism. I did not suggest that I like it the way it is or that everybody should just shut up and go back to work for The Man. I am a Maine Coon and not Garfield.
But I don't have any illusions about the fundamental change. And by that I mean that there will be still a group of people who eat but do not feed anybody, who lead but do not follow. And there will be those who eat just enough to stay alive, so that they continue feeding The Masters, and who lead only their own children, at best. There also will be a group of people who eat enough, so that they don't mind working for The Man. They are also the ones who believe that they lead just because they have a right to vote or to chat in Internet forums.
The Masters may not live in Florence any more. They may soon move out of their isolated mansions in the woods of New England. But they are not going to disappear. The clans may change but the class will remain. Like in DS9, They are the shape-shifters, ruling quietly through the Vorta. When we speak of "the elite" - the government, the army, big name TV talking heads - it's all just a race of middle managers. Vorta: obedient and replaceable. They have complete control over reptilian Jem'Hadar, who are hooked on a drug available only from the Vorta. You can harass stock brockers, but it won't destroy their brokerages. You can abolish the brokerages but it won't get rid of The Few who own them. Just like you can defeat Jem'Hadar or intimidate Vorta into some kind of surrender, but you will never get rid of the Shape-Shifters.
You can persuade Them that the way Vorta have been running things is not sustainable. They may even fire the Vorta and put you in charge (and create a better looking JemHadar for you). But they are the ultimate constant. Many things may become better, but some things are not going to change. "Such is the order of things"
As for the ancient cities: I am pretty sure Athens are older than 2500. So is Rome. |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Oct 27, 2011 20:59
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So, we can change the world or not? (for the better)
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1659
Posted : Oct 28, 2011 03:36
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^
Yes, we can. And we should.
But it can happen only to the degree The Owners will allow us.
Beyond that it's not going to happen. Simply because ultimately it's up to Them and we don't even know who (and where) they are.
Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. It sucks to realize that you can not fly. But then it also keeps you from jumping off a clif.
To continue the DS9 analogy: Captain Cisco had a friend Odo, who was a shape-shifter. This opened a link for him to the other shape-shifters. And Odo managed to persuade them a couple of times. Also, it helped that Cisco himself was a prophet and could communicate with an even higher race of aliens (roughly corresponding to what we would call gods).
I don't have a friend among DuPonts and Vanderbilts. Nor do I get visited by Gabriel. Maybe one of these things is going to change, maybe even both. Until then, I simply acknowledge my limitations. |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Oct 28, 2011 16:49
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Well, I don't share your point of view but if so elite and "owners" exists they shouldn't be used as excuses for not acting.
We should act and contruct the world we want until we face limits.
IMHO and experience we dont know which limits are those, around the world there are many people working on constructing and chaging things around, but we are still a long way ffrom those limits.
And then, how those limits, if the exist, affect our daily live? how much different will the world be without them?
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 30, 2011 22:28
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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3171
Posted : Oct 31, 2011 12:57
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Quote:
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On 2011-10-28 03:36, Maine Coon wrote:
But it can happen only to the degree The Owners will allow us.
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From what I've read that this is the crux of your point of view, and I agree with you. But I think you put the power of economics in the wrong hands... those who run the economy are just human, and can be brought down with a rise against the tide.
The force that lies deeper than that is the essence of greed and fear.
Greed and fear will continue to exist beyond one world economy, global peace, food for everyone etc. It's something that we can only tackle on an individual level at this point. Even when we do tackle it individually it starts to change shape when it moves into the collective consciousness so we need to be even more aware of its methods.
An example of economic ties in the perspective of man.
- Man as an independent individual has basic to minimal economic ties.
- Man responsible for a family has standard economic ties.
- Man who has the responsibility of family and enterprise has several economic ties.
- Man who has the responsibility of family, enterprise, community has and is also responsible for maintaining economic ties.
- Man who as the responsibility of family, enterprise, community and politics has and is also responsible for creating economic ties.
- Man at the top of the responsibility chain creates economy that ties up to individuals.
Now the question, which man is MOST susceptible to fear & greed?
This is why they say that good people going into politics eventually get corrupt. It's the essence of fear taking advantage of responsibility.
Now a bit of the weirdo stuff which I think you'll agree with Maine Coon. There are others. They are one top of the responsibility chain above all men in that list. The difference is that they are fearless. This movement is a joke to them, they'll just move to the next phase when this finishes. They will only be neutralized when we as individuals and as a collective are immune to fear.
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
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725
Posted : Nov 1, 2011 07:06
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I agree with Main Coon that the presidents and the elite talking heads we see on TV are probably just managers who are lower in the pyramid of power. Not the real guys in charge. Some say there are occult groups and even alien beings at the very top of the machine and well who knows… regardless, I think it’s good to also include a dragon in our calculations of how to break free from this machine. Let’s aim high so we are sure to make it over the fence as we go for the jump..
Look one thing is for sure: If the machine relies on dumbing us down and keeping us in a state of fear then the machine is not that powerful. I mean anybody who relies on blindfolding others to keep them in control is not that certain of their own power. You know what I am saying? And what does that tell us? that there is something about ourselves that we should know.
I believe that we were not born to be manipulated and live in fear. I also believe that there are powerful energies such as LOVE that can be guiding force to untangle this mess. I think there is a deeper and bigger story to who we are. And maybe it’s up to us to write that story, you know.. because maybe after all we are the creators of our own destiny. It could just be part of growing up as a species and stepping out of our nest and into flight. Perhaps we have keepers because we behave in a way that makes that justifiable for some people high up in the pyramid. But would this still hold true if humanity awakened to a higher state of awareness of it's true nature?
We may have to dig deep but I believe we have the power to save ourselves, maybe that's what our souls are trying to tell us. We all want to feel free and loved and NOT like we are somebody else’s cattle. There could be a clear message there.. and perhaps that means we also have to look at how we treat other life on this planet, starting with how we treat each other and what we allow ourselves to be. Perhaps there is meaning in this deep desire to find our true nature ... maybe its like a calling from our soul… saying, step up to it! step up to become what you really are, in your full cosmic enlightened potential!!!
You know like login was kind of saying: the mountain is high and there is much climbing we can do before we’ll reach anything we consider as our “limit”. So maybe after making a real effort and climbing to a higher place we will then have a better view of what our limitations really are, because maybe more than limitations they are prejudices about ourselves and humanity. For all we know.. our only limitations are our own preconceived ideas about what our limitations are.
Trumpets and violins I can hear in the distance, …I think they're calling our names. Maybe now you can't hear them, but you will, ha-ha
And if you listen very hard The tune will come to you at last… When all are one and one is all!!!
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 3, 2011 14:16
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^ very nicely put
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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75
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1848
Posted : Nov 3, 2011 18:01
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This whole anachronistic Judeo-Christian aspect of a "pyramid of power" (I say Judeo-Christian because I think it's no argument how heavily influenced these religions are by Egyptian culture, who basically took the pyramid archetype and ran with it as a monotheistic religious model) seems to imply there's some sort of zenith or terminus of power at its peak (typically imagined with one person or entity on top of it all) which doesn't sit quite right with me.
To me it seems the world is more like a pool of primordial soup where the enzymes and DNA were just eating each other in a big pile and scrabbling to organize and shield groups of themselves from their own predations.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1659
Posted : Nov 3, 2011 18:59
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^
Anachronistic or not, the pyramid model holds. Anybody who has ever worked for a firm of more than 20 people or served in the military has been a stone in a pyramid. Why is it so hard to imagine that a local pyramid is just a part of a much larger one?
As for the single entity - I don't believe this either. I believe the true state of affairs on Top is oligarchy (nicely corresponding to oligopoly on the economic plane). If I were to create a religion based on my views about the human society, it would have a pantheon of mostly invisible and quiet gods, a whole army of very visible and loud demigods and an even larger army of human schmucks who try to get to the demigod status.
I happened to be a monotheist and my view of the World does not require a whole class of supreme entities: one would suffice. However, I do not believe that in the human part of this world either economic or physical power can be concentrated in the hands of a single person. Not because this is such a horrible thing to imagine (although it surely is). Simply, the Egyptian pointy pyramid is not as stable in this case as the Aztec flat-top one would be.
Which is actually a very important point: the world’s problems could be solved by replacing its single Super-Dictator, if such a person actually existed. However, it’s not as easy to uncover (let alone eliminate) a cartel. And even if you could do that, after a couple of generations everything would be back to the usual fascist scheme, since it just happened to be the most stable scheme available. Which is why I believe it is the actual state of affairs.
Do I care? Yes, I do. The way I care about Sun running out of fuel. Or my mortgage being “under water”. Just another unpleasant reality I can do almost nothing about.
P.S. Yidam and Aluxe – great posts, thanks. Strangely enough, I agree with most things you said. My only wish is that people who want to change the world would change their own lives first. There would be fewer frustrated failures-turned-dictators like Lenin and Hitler in the world then.
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Trimethylene
Started Topics :
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8
Posted : Apr 6, 2012 19:46
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Advancement in technology, fueled by upcoming wars and unforeseeable events of the near future will cause a complete change in in our opportunities as a Human race. The current cycles and rules will no longer be effective. No one ever has the ability to predict the ends of the next technological revolution which is always completely alien to people before it, but we are due for one. 2012 is going to be the beginning of a change process toward a world completely beyond what we could imagine. Think about the people of the late 1800 could they have imagined cars where going to be around in 20 years and washing machines and microwaves... or in the 60's could they have imagined smart phones and internet with unlimited access to information everywhere you go?
The next change will have an unpredictable technologies for us. This time, according only to my optimistic belief, it will be advanced enough to cause a mass increase in efficiency of sustenance for humanity. (allowing us to thrive while using less resources) Think about the amount of advancements in sustainable sciences, fuel technologies, systems of power creation. Sustainable housing concepts.
There will be a point in the eventual future (may be far away still)
where a recourse based society in which the economy is based on the scientific distribution of resources to create maximum efficiency for everyone will be so easy, that the Capitalists, and the governments will have trouble stopping it from happening. |
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phazed
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 6, 2012 08:04
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