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Amatuer trance scene

___kaz
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Posted : Nov 4, 2001 14:22:13

There's a whole amatuer trance scene around the world which isn't really explored.

It started out a while ago with shidapu (later split into Erez from Infected Mushroom, and Ido and Miki from Domestic), continued with people like Mr. Peculiar from Australia, Sienis and our very own Philip...

The thing with these people is that it took them a while and a lot of hard work to break through and make music which was released.

BUT...

That gave them an edge over most musicians in the scene today - most of the music they made was not affected by the mainstream trance scene when they started - and each one got their own unique sound and ideas (I know Philip has been at music for a few years now, Shidapu had over 3 years of experience, and Sienis also has been at the music for quite a while).

This is growing more scarce by the minute - most people today can just load cubase and a few plugins, reason, reaktor and get a decent production within less than 6 months (while they are still very influenced by the music they hear), and get released then.

In short - all you bigwigs from the labels: stop releasing tracks because they have good production and a familiar formula (they sound just like the sound your label has, and it so happens that someone that wants to release in ZMA is a Paps fan, for instance). Production can be improved easily - music is a totally different thing. And that's what should be the most important.
___starjoker
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Posted : Nov 4, 2001 14:27:01
still they have a money from distributing they will not changhe anything.
and dont forget they are ... BASTARD'S..
___kaz
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Posted : Nov 4, 2001 14:35:56
excuse me for having faith in a few labels that have always been out there looking for the good stuff and not the money machine stuff.

I know that more than a few labels have been VERY dissapointing in this way, but they can change - the right people are still in the scene, and still have influence....

Wake up people before trance becomes nothing more than 3-4 formulas for tracks which anyone can follow with cubase/logic from his own home in 1 month. GO FOR SOMETHING BETTER THAN THAT!!!!
___starjoker
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Posted : Nov 4, 2001 14:41:17
i still went - Free Form rec. and their sub lable Jublee rec. - they ALLWAYS realese only different music...
___Auspexx
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Posted : Nov 4, 2001 16:04:29
Why does it bother you that making music is accessible and easier? does it bother you that you are not special anymore, that you do not belong to a seclutive "Branja" who can afford to spend all their money on gear?

I personaly know about some of the BEST trax I've ever heard in my life that were written in FruityLoops, and even in FastTracker (!).
The fact that producing sound and music (2 seperate things, old boy...) is easier today, allows musicians (musician being ANYONE who produces music, be it the lowsiest and cheapest kind, dear chum...) to concentrate on writing the actual music, and not spend more than 3/4 of the time struggling to purchase and learn this or that new device.
I personaly think its a wicked thing - to be able to acutaly make music without spending 5-7 years in a conservatorium/rock band/afternoon piano lessons. Heh, I know of ppl who did that and nothing came out of their music (IM, Yahel... - very good sound technicians, but the music?!).

Now, Labels are usualy run by single person, who has a taste and musical direction. Maybe that could be the reason why labels has a similar line/style in their releases?
Believe me, there's SO MUCH music going around these days (you said it yourself - everybody can make music), that the A&R's job is only to pick the stuff he believe can fit his musical taste (and can reach the audience), and not to run after artists all the time.

so if you don't like the music labels release - dont buy it. If you think that the ppl who are making music don't know how to - go and make some yourself.
___tomeron
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Posted : Nov 4, 2001 16:31:31
assaf i understand your point of view ,keep it b cuz i think its comeing from your hart.

tal, i can understand also your point of view tal because it's comming from your mind,a more realistic & down to earth point of view.

i personaly think that the right way is between u 2.

i think that label should know how to combine those 2 .

music that fit to the a&p taste & fit to the large audience & along with that the music that wont fit to everyone that will give a twist for somthing new .

i can give you for example yuli's album presense ,it was not & still not the kind of trance that we usualy hear ,it was somthing differant & that is the reason that i still hear trax from this album in parties (& play also...), it's still a blast!

anyway, that's my opinion.

___DCQ
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 00:46:08
hey auspexx dude, i appreciate what your saying, and it might be the logical point of view, but hell, people are humans, it doesnt stop them from having feelings, even if those feelings are selfish and irrational.

the thing is, i get a bit annoyed like this too, sometimes, but its generally not because of the psytrance scene, its with other scenes like hard house, i look at my music, and think how long it takes to me make a track, (and bearing in mind that as im still at school i dont get a great deal opf time to work on my music) and think that ive sloged away for a couple of years now with now success whatsoever, or without even getting record labels to even acknowledge i sent them a demo, let alone tell me they hated it, and then to go and swicth on the radio,and hear the latest super sijmple, repetitive, took no talen to make hard house track sweeping the nationh and earning its creators thousands of pounds.

its good that everyone has access to making music, but at the same time it means that the crappy mainstream areas of talentless producers grows too.........
maybe thats the point asaf's tryigng to make too.
___pacman7331
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 02:55:09
Yeah, most of the stuff that is sold is the falimiler goa sounding music we all like that has quality. Somthing completly diffrent, will not get a record contract easily becuase record companies have to sell records.

Paino lessons Auspexx do nothing but HELP the music evolve beyond average, plain, and common intelligence. If someone classicly trained his whole life in paino suddenly expolred modern technology and music, and fianally decided to produce Goa or whatever. It would have MUCH more potential than anyone else's.

But goa has expanded completly, face it. Now it's going back to simplicity (minimalism).

We need a leader to lead us to show us the next dimension. I don't think we REQUIRE one... but for a revolution, it may be the only way.

check my thread Music in music creation board....
___kaz
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 03:37:58
Tal man, I agree with you it's a wonderful thing that anyone can create music nowadays...

MTV may have made mainstream music more accessible, but do you think Britney and Will Smith need the spotlight while Radiohead and Massive Attack are lucky to get a clip at 2:00am? Would Pipers on the Gates of Dawn ever succeed in the MTV world?

accessible isn't necessarily better, quality of music is. letting the trance world be streamlined by a few people who decide what the best music is for everyone else is wrong.

it's easy to make an accessible track. it's harder to make a good one. people who have been into the music on their own and not as someone who wants to make music "as good as GMS" are the people you should look for, not the ones with the "accessible sounds"...

that's what I was saying.

Do you agree to that?
___Auspexx
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 09:51:32
I don't see anything wrong in the music Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Will Smith or the Beckstreet Boys are doing. I don't neccessary like it, I don't have to listen to it, but I dont think its "lower" music than Massive Attack (which I'm a big fan of their music).

I believe that music, by definition, is art, and therefore should be [b]ENTERTAINING[/b]. if some music is very sofisticated, inteligent, masterly produced, but too heavy/dark/eery, so it is not Entertaining anymore - it is taken too seriously.
When I make music (ask the Plug&Pray dudes) I try to take myself as less seriously as possible, the perspective is FUN, FUN, FUN. It has to be fun, otherwise, what r we doing here?

being influenced by someone is not a swareword man, even the big ones are influenced by someone. Do you think that Cosma renewed anything with his music? did he invent something new? NO! but his music is well produced, entertaining, easy to digest but not too easy - exactly the right formula used in Headcleaner (why do you think these 2 albums succeed so much?).
Does it make his music less good?

Point.
___tomeron
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 11:16:53
i dont think that every song u heard tal gave the same feeling ,when u hear pink floyd song i dont think that the exact word would be happy....
it's the same in electronic music.

cosma style that u gave for example is more dramatic than squaremeat that r more jumpy & happy.

i belive that a good track is one that can give u a certain kind off feeling, no matter what kind of feeling it is, (happy , scary , joy ,psychick or whatever...).

& no there's nothing wrong with brritny or will smiths ,it makes ppl feel good ,but also with that there r some ppl who like massive attack like u said , but lately i (as a listener)  think we had a little bit  too much of "britny spirs" trance lately. i would like to hear some more "massive attack" or squeremeat.... :) for example...

respect
___kaz
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 13:56:01
What I'm saying is that because of the fact that people are going with well known formulas, it's killing the mainstream of the psytrance world, in the same way that MTV does (IMO) to the mainstream music of today.

And yes, I want something new in everything I hear.

And yes, I think that people should have their OWN style. If it's influenced by other people (and everyone is influenced by something), that's ok, as long as it isn't other people's ideas with someone else executing them. And as someone who I believe knows a lot of the music out in recent years, you saw plenty of that.


I believe that a really good track should make me say two things:

"Wow, I never heard this before!"
and
"Why the hell didn't anyone think of that earlier?!?!"

and that's what made me love Massive Attack, Radiohead, and a zillion other musicians which get 0.0001% of the credit that Britney or any one of the "formula" pop/hiphop people that are usually on #1-#20 on the mtv list while radiohead haven't had a big hit since OK Computer (and even then it wasn't THAT big), while their music is more interesting (and in my opinion, a lot better, and improves with each album).

What I'm saying is....

please don't let something like that happen in the trance world.

Do you really want a scene where people follow formulas to make dancefloor hits (how many tracks did you hear lately that are more than just "influenced" by Deedrah - Reload?), instead of people giving a bit of their soul to make music (and you can hear that in 99% of the best tracks, from old Astral to new Violet Vision).

What I'm saying is that music is MORE than entertainment - and I expect from a track to be deeper than just "accessible ideas" and a nice groove. That's why I prefer hearing psychedelic to club trance. and that goes for my taste in psy as well. I just go with my music taste as long as I can go, and when people make music that goes a long way, I'll follow.

And Tal, stop taking what I say so hard man, I'm just saying everyone should do their OWN thing, and not try to do someone elses. And that's what's dissappearing from the trance scene, and I feel that people doing their own thing is the soul of trance, the whole scene, and a lot of the people in it.

Do you really want that to change?
___Reece
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 14:22:31
thank you Asaf!!!
i'm glad someone else feels this way!...
:)
___Auspexx
Old Forum Member
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 14:39:33
hey, this is fun man! ping-ponging with you, I mean...;)

I hold 2 oppinions on this subject.
Of course I agree with you, and I also look for things that make me say the exact same things as you quoted in your last post. I want to hear something else, something different (Arie, remember our last conversation?), and not the usual formula everybody calls "progressive" these days.

on the other hand, I have nothing against someone who wants to ride the wave of popular music and share the success of others. I dont have to listen to this kinda music (do you really think that I listen to crap like Infected?), but I give these artists all the respect, and I wish they continue to do their music the way they see fit.
For you it can be crap, for another it can be a whole world. The fact that you can't find anything in pop music (pop means popular, and it exists also in trance), doesn't mean that someone else can't.

yalla...your turn...:)
___DCQ
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Posted : Nov 5, 2001 16:45:22
well, im gonna butt in here and have a turn of my own....

mayube you CAN say some musics crap.. well not the muic, but the ppl making the music..
ok, so briteny doesnt really make her music, but lets face it, she aint exactly no ella fitzgerald or bjork when it comes to her singin talent or abilites, is she?? on the other hand, maybe its important to respect the fact that 'her' music makes a lot of ppl happy..
on the other hand, infected may be onme of the most well known psytrance acts around, but a lot of people dont like their stuff- auspexx dude, obviosuly you dont, but in their case i dont think you can deny that wheteher or not you hate their music, they are talented producers, whereas there are some producers out there, more ni the house scene, or the fluffy euro trance scee who arent...
take atb, for example, you might well like some of his stuff #9i happen no to) but even if you do, you cant really argue that hes a particularily good producer... maybe he has good ideas for melodies and things, but i find that hes the equivalent to some hyped new pop singer, nice sounding to humm along to maybe, but throwaway, even if you like it ytou cant argue that they are particularily talented at whateve branch of  music theyre in to..
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