Mike A
Subra
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Posted : Feb 10, 2011 20:07
Quote:
no matter that it is not on molecular level and no matter that ice always has hexagonal structure on molecular level. i grasp it has. but melting ice does not always have this hexagonal structure on 200 times magnification - obviously only in some cases. it is an observable phenomenon and you so far show no interest to this observable phenomenon
I'll give you another example. As I said earlier, I'm a geologist. So while working with some rock samples to look for olivine crystals (google it, it's actually very preety) in order to do some research I also found gold. Real, solid, shiny gold. How nice is that?
So here are the facts: There is gold. Just not too much. Not much at all, so there is no point in turning this to a mine and making millions of dollars. So what most rational people would do is nothing.
What would Mr. Emoto do in that case? Take only the samples with gold, and show it to people, sell it to people, while there is nothing of real value.
Back to the hexagonal water thingy, the photos have no value if they are hand picked to prove the theory.
What if there are 100 photos of the "good water", and only 2 of them are nice hexagonal? So Emoto shows the 2 pictures and says "look it's preety!".
The only way you can judge for yourself whether there is any significant change in the quality of the water (I need to be careful with "quality", since hexagonal ice crystals and massive aggregates are the same) is to see all of the photos. Mr. Emoto does not give this. He gives one photo per sample.
As far as I know, there can be 50 "good" photos and 50 "bad" photos for each sample, and depends on what the sample was exposed to, he just chooses the photo that he sees fit.
This is not science, this is fraud. His "triple-blind" experiment which is supposed to be the most accurate, could not verify his earlier results.
So, in short - he makes an experiment where he openly acknowledges he was doing misconduct and he has "proof" for something. Then he makes a real experiment using real scientific methods and fails to prove anything. This basically means that the first experiment was wrong, and nothing has to be explained about it.
Bridges falling apart are causing by mechanical resonance of waves. So is glass breaking. Spectral series are related to electromagnetic waves.
Mechanical waves and electromagnetic waves are different things. The fact that we call them, in our language, "waves" (which is why they have the physical properties of frequency and resonane etc) does not mean they are the same and have any relation.
Quote:
i do believe that resonance can do something good for my body.
You believe. That's the keyword. Belief is very strong, and it can make you feel better. But it doesn't mean that it has any real foundation.
I have a lucky shirt and I believe that I will do well when wearing it. It doesn't mean that it has some magical power. It's all in my brain, and only there.
Anyway, if you feel this resonance (of what?) can make you feel better, then great. As long as you are happy! Just don't forget to visit a real doctor when you are sick, because the stars will not cure you.
mk47
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Posted : Feb 10, 2011 20:24
dedeeddee
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2011 22:25
as i said, i am aware of the critical points in the methodology of emoto. why do you need to repeat this four times? i was aware even at the beginning of the conversation, not only about the bias of the experimentator by chosing the photos but also about the difference in temperature, humidity, breath of the experimentator (makes the ice melt faster and differently) . and i personally would not call his method science unless i see the number of all possible photos and compare the percentages. it is my way to verify things, because statistics is what i understand best. but if i were you, i would just write to him on behalf of a chemstry faculty and ask him do this. scientist skepsis is a great and very valuable thing, but it must be there any second whatever you do and say. the ability to question your view and the world you have constructed. it might be wrong. what i assume with emoto is a percentage of at least 60 percent validation of the photos, which means, he presents to us 60 percent of the photos and the rest 40 not.
and to believe means more than just what you suggest. because if i believe that resonance can do a great thing for my body ( plus mind), then i will found out anything i can about resonance, any numbers, any phenomenon and try different methods to establish resonance with the movement of the smalles particles in my body, the hydrogene bonds in my dna, the vibrating cell membranes, the heart circuit. whatever it is. i will be someone on quest, because if i believe, then i have a hypothesis, and i am in the process of proving it.
now you realize that this long conversation actually almost turns to some type of voyaorism or this is how i perceive it right now and may be it is time to slow it up. i will continue my search because i know i am on the right way. because as i said there is a vast second side of the coin which includes the knowledge of ancient ancestors and cultures. and they often knew more about the atoms and the stars than we knew at the beginning of the 20th century. we woudl be incomplete and stupid if we close our eyes for that.
hm, now, after i lost two days with the internet, i guess it is time for a break now. thanks for the enjoyable conversation.
Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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Posted : Feb 10, 2011 22:47
rich
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 10, 2011 23:30
This morning, noticing congestion in my nose, someone pressed at the sides of my nostrils and said "you have blocked Qi here". "Blocked energy".
Which made me think of this thread, and whether 'Qi' and 'chakras' have ever been rewarded any scientific validity. I was told by my ENT doctor that my nasal passages were smaller than normal, hence easily blocked with a little mucus. He didn't say anything about 'blocked Qi'. I googled 'scientific proof of qi' and found no science papers or studies, but lots of 'its real' and 'its not real' sites.
Anyway, just wanted to throw this out there in case anybody of learning has any info I could read. Health is one of my main interests and I'm always on the hunt for information. Mainly the proven true kind.
willsanquil
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 00:40
This is why I don't like your posts moki. You believe things purely because you believe in them, even when someone has gone the extra 10,000 miles to irrefutably prove you wrong. There are most likely things that you believe that are impossible to prove wrong, but your reluctance to accept that you have 'lost' a discussion by being out-argued is incredibly irking, especially when you claim to be someone who uses math and 'logic' to come to your conclusions - people like you are degrading the quality of conversation with this rubbish. There is so much REAL science out there that has such fantastic and mind blowing implications....this pseudo crap is not helping anyone. Well, besides the placebo effect, which would be just as strong if I believed that there was a mysery man on the moon that was broadcasting the magical Octave of the universe to a chip an alien placed in my skull that resonated with all of my cells...or some other nonsense.
Keep spouting nonsense about your dna and particles and the cosmic octave (oh, and the BEST - your 'statistics"), I hope it does you some good.
rich
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 00:53
^ Apparently, that chip was implanted in our ancient ancestors but not us
moki
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 03:14
@willsanquil , i dont like your posts either, or at least in hundred percent of the cases i read them, which is three times. so i share the same feeling as you, i hope it does some good to you to get exactly the same feeling back:). generally what i dont like about the common internet, is that i need to talk to people i would never talk to in real life. and generally i dont like the idea of winning and losing threads! and who is the judge? people like you or what?
about degrading the quality of a conversation, okey, good to know that i lost 20 x 60 x 60 seconds of my life with rubbish. trial and error. i have tried quite a lot of things in life to systemize the errors.
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 03:18
Stop it cause i don't understand a thing
Everything i hear is bla bla bla when you talk round about
what is it all you have to say
Everything i hear is bla bla bla about every damn thing
yeah you talking rubbish, talking thin, talking stupid
Talking weird, talking round, blablabla
Yeah you losing your jaw and pouring out sound
but your mouth just mumbles and eyes are lying
and everything you say is always the same thing
when they move their lips and speaking their rubbish
Now you shut up and taste the shoe
cause i will flip out soon
cause everything is the same
Yeah you speaking in tongues and i don't know what
I hear the shit spins every single day
Just lies is what they call truths
but everything in a mix gets empty words to empty action
and i can hardly believe how they get away with it
At the same time at 900 TV channels
they talk and they nag and lie
forbiding and creating our weapon in the sound
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 03:30
Quote:
On 2011-02-10 18:28, Basilisk wrote:
Isotope. You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.
yes, i dont know what i am talking about. i hope you will excuse me for talking at all, would you.
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 03:44
ops wrong thread!
I got lost in cyberspace
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 04:38
no coinscidences. may be something wants to tell us that we are in the wrong thread and are lost in cyberspace. here is the thread we are in.
thanks to psytones for the interesting link, no matter if it is "pseudoscience" or not. those who are nerved by pseudoscience would probably need to open another thread and continue there. or just say what information they have about the 528 phenomenon.
i am sorry, psytones for taking the word in your thread.
A friend of mine showed me some information about the 528 Hz phenomenon. this is some wonderful insight to how sounds work, their frequencies and the tones they interact on.
Anyway, curious to know what information you have?
p.s. last thing about why i " believe" in resonance and its effect on my body and soul.
- because i prefer the word believe instead of i know. and i know that i know nothing.
- because i have seen with my eyes that certain things vibrate or dont only by a difference of 2 hz , which means that even 2 hz decide if a small subject vibrates or not. about my cells or my atoms, there it must be a resonance of 0,000000x hz to make an object vibrate or not.
- because i have seen with my eyes that bodies vibrate if i am on an astral journey, and obviously so do cells or cell membranes, and atoms, and even strings of particles and everything vibrates
- because i have seen cymatic phenomenon and i am sure that i prefer harmonical geometric shapes than non harmonical and obviously sound creates shapes in nature that are harmonical
- because i have seen objects and glass fall apart just because of resonance. i deduce destruction from non resonance.
- because i have studies mathematics and have deep fascination for chains of numbers and fractals, especially if any part of a system gives mathematical information about the whole system. it means that i see myseld as such fractal in the middle between the macro and the microcosm and i know i include the sames formules as above and within. this means that i look for patterns, for formulas. anywhere. harmonics give me most answers. because the formula fit on any level / macro, micro, and on the keyboard.
- yes, to sum it up. most important. because i know it, because i have heard the music of the pheres while sleeping and going in an out of body experience many times in the childhood.
- and because i chose what to believe in.
- and because i dont know any other better model to understand universe. very strange that these isotopes were one of the very few lessons i ever visited in school in chemistry. i remember it so clearly.
rich
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 04:44
I'm sorry I just have to insert an old classic tune here
Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 11, 2011 07:13
Quote:
willsanquil wrote:
Keep spouting nonsense about your dna and particles and the cosmic octave (oh, and the BEST - your 'statistics"), I hope it does you some good.
And like you are not full of it yourself. You come off as an ass, so is that the value you bring here?
And maybe in a million years all this science trip will be obsolete anyways and it will be no better than what you call now pseudo science. I just think you are a little to sure of your own views.
Just don't forget to visit a real doctor when you are sick, because the stars will not cure you.
thanks for the enjoyable conversation.
