| |
| Author
|
4/29 - 5/1/2011= PsyTribe, Spun & GreenSector = Spring Freakuency Festival = Outdoor Gathering
|
Chemistry
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
242
Posted : May 10, 2011 11:57
|
Agreed! The psy scene is the odd ball out. It is the one fueled by the "producers" and not the dj's. Which makes things blurry when it comes to the live/dj set thing.
To me it's not a big deal and to be honest I would have never brought it up except wHen Andy introduced Earthling he said Live and then the dude said no it's going to be a dj set and then I said to myself hummmmm "so what was he gonna do"? Because when Penta was playing "live" he was playing his songs yes but cd's and as I stated what I seemed to hear all weekend was "as is" cd's and I wondered really did anyone even do the laptop thing. I saw a something behind and off to the side of the dj rig under sheets and thought Maybe someone had equipment they were gonna use and wondered if this was so.
As far as live I guess it should state "live PA" then I would expect some live on the fly music. A tone a frequency that is found and expanded for the moment is good enough for me. I wouldn't care personally if let's say Penta took two of his songs and a beetles song he likes and created a 1 hour set and environment out of it I would prefer it if artist started taking this approach. At least I know that we are there together and if a piece of a track is very fitting for the time being he or whom ever will capture it and slap it up flip it rub it down oh nooooo!
I just hope people aren't charging more to only play their music and really I hope that artist don't think that just because they are booked as "live" they can't play whatever they want. I wouldn't be there if I wasn't interested in what they had to offer in the first place. I also don't go to hear that one track by so and so. Personally I really don't care who or what is being played as long as it's true to self and with love for all, well that and it's gotta be dope as dooky or I wouldn't stay and would go about my merry way and find something I like.
I know people go for many reasons and expect great things sometimes without realizing what goes into pulling things off. |
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 10, 2011 21:12
|
I will try to not make this a novel and rehash all the old arguments about live vs dead acts...here goes...
First of all, I heartily disagree that the scene is fueled by producers and not DJs. There was much, much more 'DJing' than 'live stuff' at this party. Most psy parties that I have been to that are not multi day outdoor festivals are driven by DJs, not producers. Know many live acts (as in , people playing only their own music) that can keep the dance floor energized and interested for more than 2 hours? I certainly don't.
As for the 'live' acts that were booked at this party...and the degree of 'liveness'...
Burn In Noise - played off laptop - set was super awesome
Dino Psaras - played off CDs
GMS - played off laptop - mostly the same material as was played at Psychedelic Freakshow back on halloween...they had a nord lead last time and they rocked it...but this time nope...
Penta - played off laptop - set was super awesome as always
Tron - didn't see him play!?!? anyone know what happened with that??
Earthling - did a DJ set with CDs (iirc) then didn't do his 'live' set
Menog - played off a laptop, great set but was expecting some 'live' drumming on his drumpad as he has a reputation for this...and I didn't see it
Allaby - played off a laptop
Shane Gobi - played off CDs
Bansi & Riktam - didn't see
Konflux - didn't see
Swell - didn't see
I pay a lot of attention to what gear people are using and how much time they spend interacting with the gear that they have...and I saw very little 'live' work from any acts that I witnessed. Saw a couple iPads, APC40s, some Korg Nanocontrols - but not exactly a flurry of activity behind the controls.
However, I had an amazing time and for the most part was very happy with the music that was being played and in the end that's all the crowd really cares about. the 2% of the population that are fellow producers/DJs may scoff a bit when people are booked as live and they basically press play and dance...and I do believe that there is the potential for live elements in the psy scene but I don't get bent out of shape anymore when it doesn't happen.
I'd sooner see a polished pre-programmed set from a producer(or even a DJ) that is really spot on as opposed to a shoddy live set with lots of live elements just for the sake of being live. That's one of the reasons why so many producers go this route...it's easier and unless you're incredibly talented and spend a lot of time working on your live see its usually better sounding.
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
Chemistry
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
242
Posted : May 11, 2011 01:52
|
First off right all the novels you'd like 
Second yeah I did want to bring the old talk to light your breakdown of the acts was what I was wondering and asking thank you young Jedi.
As for the dj/producer thing I'm talking in context that it's I think a lot harder for someone Let's say Khan to go far as just a dj then him writing his own music and maybe people like it. Even if he oh BoooooM phone is gonna die I'll finish later so sorry :-( |
|
|
|
kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
786
Posted : May 11, 2011 02:04
|
@Wil - I actually heard a lot of new GMS material. To me it was surprising that they were bringing them back again so soon. But I was pleasantly surprised that they had a plethora of fresh material. That said, I did hear a couple rehashed tracks from last time, but not many. I could have done without some of the remixes too, but I loved a lot of their 1st day afternoon set, as well as the majority of their 2nd day set. I definitely preferred the comparatively more aggressive 2nd day set though. Also, I'm not so sure they were truly utilizing that Nord Lead last time. I'm just as happy to see them play with a laptop, CDJ's, or whatever. A lot of them had their laptop routed out into 2 channels on the mixer. They were using their laptops to play something similar to a DJ set you would hear them play on CD's. But I noticed the Sunday afternoon GMS set had a lot more dynamic sounding track blends. Of all their sets, that one sounded the most "live DJ'd." I would rather hear a legit DJ set like this, than a set of pre-mixed pre-filtered pre-ordered tracks on a laptop (WHICH IS THE STANDARD FOR "LIVE"). That said, I really only truly care about the music coming out of the speakers. As a DJ, I am biased to appreciate good mixing, track blends, and good DJing though. To me, this can often sound just as if not more dynamic than so called "live sets."
@Chemistry - Regarding DJ fees, my guess is that because Spun Recs is co-organizing these parties they are getting a good deal on most of the Spun headliners at least. In my experience in helping to bring headliners, and just being involved with parties, most of these guys who have very little exposure in the US market are perfectly willing to play here for a discounted rate; often times for travel fees or little more. They may charge extra for their "live set" on the global market. But from what I've seen here, they just want to GET HERE to play their music in whichever desired format they prefer. I've noticed that Mad Maxx almost always uses CD's for at least part of his set. Yet he is always playing nearly all his own music. To me, this is his "live set." And to be honest with you, when I finish some tracks I'm pretty sure I would prefer to play them out on CD, or in some "DJ format" rather than trying to invent some "live show" to go with it. Sure, if I get some really grand idea of how to make it into a live, I would be open. But I think that these days the whole "live" thing is being forced on producers because it's the only way they can market themselves on a global market. If they're not going to be adding a lot to it live, or manipulating the sound, I would rather just see them pull of an excellently mixed DJ set with their own tracks. And to me, that may as well be "live" if they're playing all the tracks they produced. It's also important to note that psytrance, being usually very complex music, doesn't often require a lot of live manipulation. This music more than most is produced with the intention of achieving some sort of "perfection" in the studio when the tracks are produced. Sometimes introducing live aspects might actually take away from this.
http://www.soundcloud.com/djKAHN |
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 11, 2011 08:18
|
Totally agree that the whole 'live' thing is unnecessary. I would feel perfectly fine with labelling all of the acts at the party dj sets. Producer DJ sets sure, but DJ sets nonetheless.
Just drop the *live* title imo and just have their name. Or artist dj set. More honest if you want to reserve that title for acts that are more deserving and actually do shit live besides mixing with a laptop.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
786
Posted : May 11, 2011 13:36
|
|
psyman
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
427
Posted : May 13, 2011 22:43
|
Joining in on this conversation, and I think we should open it up for all the forum.
So to me a proper and true Live set is (Also was the standart couple of years ago)- Usually when a Live artist is brought to play, his tracks are known (album that came out not too long ago, or about to come out, or like GMS a LOT of famously known tracks or some of that sort)
So if that is the case, within a live set you as a dancer and someone who follows the artist, should expect to know at least some of the tracks.
So this artist playing live changes the tracks a little bit as adding new sounds, tweaks, beats, bass lines, or whatever it might be. Sometimes those live sets are organized before, but they SHOULD be done spontaneously on the spot or in other words played"Live"and when the artist performs it he "dresses" those additions on top of the track. And in Essence play with the track, add a melody or a theme.
Not too many of those artists left who actually do that.
Furthermore if you ever was lucky enough to see S.U.N. Project perform you would see that they perform live everything including a drummer and a guitar player. Cosmosis is another Great example of an artist playing Live Set. My opinion, at this last party NO ONE actually played Live set only like you guys said "Live Present"-in all glory
Still at the biggest festivals you can catch quite a bit of real Live Sets.
Now with the tractor controller every body would be able to call themselves a Live Act.
Also doesn't it sound better straight from the sound card instead of from a CD? |
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 13, 2011 23:21
|
I would agree with you that *none* of the acts that I saw at this festival met my personal standards of what a Live act should be. I truly enjoyed the shit out of the music and had a great time, but no...not anything that I saw this time around.
at the biggest festivals...you mean like in Europe? I've been in the US scene since 2003 and have attended a fair number of events since then on both the east and west coast and I have seen...definitely less than 10 performances where I was impressed with the live musicianship.
Traktor controller? Live?
Traktor is DJ software...or so I thought?? I've never seen someone do a live set with Traktor.
As for sound card from CD...that's tricky.
One of the issues that you run into when you're constructing a live set is how you want to organize your tracks. Do you want to just play out a mastered track and mix it with other mastered tracks? add melody/improv over the top? break your track into stems and mix the stems (albeit unmastered)
Most of the time when you are playing a CD the material has been professionally mastered...and a lot of the time when you're doing live stuff with the stems approach you're not using a mastering chain..or at the most you're using a very limited one.
I can remember a couple of times when I knew that the artist in question was playing unmastered or lightly mastered material and could notice a very slight drop in volume compared to the DJ that they played afterwards..but its such a small difference that the crowd won't notice.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
Bodhi 13:20
Bodhisattva 13:20
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
725
Posted : May 14, 2011 16:50
|
Ive seen a couple acts I would call 'live' recently - Olli Wisdom and Cosmosis at Desiderata in New York, but still the live element only went so far. So what if u can play a guitar or sing, that is only one element of the music out of many.
I also have encountered many so-called 'live' artists (as defined, artists who play their own music) who can keep a nice dance floor with all their own music for 2 hours or more, this can be done and it is done frequently.
I play 'live' often, and I get booked often for it, I like to get labeled that way cause I play all my own music, it distinguishes me from others who get near-equivalent credit for playing music they have not created. The way I play is I use Deckadance, where I play tracks, add effects and glitches, and also simultaneously add midi-controlled synth lines using Surge as a 3rd party plug-in within Deckadance. Not that anybody knows what the hell Im doing back there, nor can most of them understand, the audience just seeks entertainment. Usually the promoters dont have the budget to pay me enough to bring out more gear so I can do things like play live keyboards and sing into the computer with effects and so forth, nor do they provide the stage room for such a setup.
The psytrance scene here in America just does not have the economical means to support true 'live' play, like with psytrance 'bands' and such. Get more people involved in attending gatherings, and it might happen, as in, promoters may have more money to pay artists to have more ascetic (albeit musically unnecessary in my opinion) performance elements, as long as the attendees demand and pay for it. This is not the Coachella fest or EDC we are talking about here people, these are psy gatherings, where most promoters are losing their shirts these days.
Boom from Bodhi
info/tourdates/psy
http://soundcloud.com/Bodhi1320
http://www.facebook.com/Bodhi1320
http://www.beatspace.com
3rd Album \\\"Equations\\\" on 2to6 records |
|
|
|
konflux
Konflux
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
811
Posted : May 15, 2011 11:06
|
Well said, Bodhi.
My 2 cents: often times promoters don't confirm it with artists and just assume they are going to play "live". It looks better on the flyer, it, from the promoters' point of view, helps the event be more commercially successful. Then, the artists who weren't going to do a "live" set, end up doing what they do most of the time — play a CD set.
Often, it's not viable to bring the equipment and roll out a massive show where the payoff is minimal to none.
Plus, by the order of inheritance, we expect EDM performances to match the quality and mechanics of live band music, like rock, jazz or country. These are apples and oranges that—while both delicious—aren't made the same. Live music is naturally created with instruments that produce melodies that can be put together by a team of people in real time. Conversely, the amount of intricate editing work that a psytrance producer puts into a song simply cannot be re-created on the fly with the same level of quality. Why would you want to hear sub-standard music when the amazingly crisp mastered songs are readily available?
Try to scrutinize the music delivery methods less and just enjoy the sound, the people and the vibe.
myspace.com/konfluxpsy | www.konfluxmusic.net | PsyTribe | Phar Psyde Recs. | Logical Light Recs.
For CD releases:
http://www.saikosounds.com/english/search.asp?search_str=konflux |
|
|
|
kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
786
Posted : May 15, 2011 11:52
|
I agree with you Vasili about the finished product. I think that the knobs they turn and everything else is secondary to what is coming out of the speakers.
That said, if an artist produces tracks of their own, and chooses to present them mixed "traditionally" on CD's, could this not be considered their "live" act? Using the apples to oranges argument again, since every artist is essentially responsible for coming up with the best way to present their work, couldn't we consider each artist their own type of fruit altogether? I guess I'm saying, a lot of artists might choose to present the material mixed on CD, but still want their sets recognized as something more than a regular DJ set. I know other terms such as "Artist PA", etc. have been thrown around. It seems that with how political the scene gets in terms of booking the big acts at festivals, that many artists who would rather just play out on CDJ's are forced to convert over to a "live" format due to pressures, and the desire to be seen as "bigger" and more successful.
http://www.soundcloud.com/djKAHN |
|
|
|
|
|
