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3 Fundamental Spectrums in Mixing
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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729
Posted : Jan 24, 2014 11:21
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TranceAphobic
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 24, 2014 11:58
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No, my point was just that -6 RMS (as measured the standard AES way) is far too loud, when you could do it at -12, and it would sound far, far better.
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Again it comes down to the style and genre of the music. Many commercial psy trance tracks that I analyze has a RMS between -5db and -8db. Specifically talking about when the track is in its prime. (kick,bass,leads,hats,snares etc. playing together.)
But too be honest, by maximizing to 0db is actually all that is relevant here. RMS will always differ from track to track.
My point was actually not to over maximize the track and have a RMS of -3db.
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1352
Posted : Jan 24, 2014 16:48
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On 2014-01-24 10:02, TranceAphobic wrote:
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For example, if I was to check the RMS level with PAZ analyser and Ozone, I'd get different values probably, because default settings don't match.
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If this is true, then I apologize. Through out the years I collected my favorite plugins for its specific purposes. I only use Ozone to check my RMS, but if it differentiates on other analyzers- then the values are irrelevant. When I maximize my track to 0db, and it shows about 1db over, then RMS is about -6db.(When the track is at full level/busy) If I have say a RMS value of -12db, then volume levels would not be near 0db- but yeah ... irrelevant. I understand how all this can be a bit "calculistic", but the point never was to follow every step exactly.
The whole purpose was giving a different perspective. New view points to explore. Who is right or wrong is not the question here, because there is no question. It is a door I showed to those who would put some effort in what they enjoyed doing.
Everyone will find their own way to the end point, I just provided a clue...
I respect your opinion frisbeehead.
cheers
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yeah, I also respect what you're doing here. it's an honest sharing of thought provoking stuff, in a way that doesn't easily come by.
never meant to turn this into a who's right or wrong kind of thing, was trying to be constructive all the way. cheers
@babaluma
I tend to agree that a little more dynamic won't hurt anyone. but, it's true that most music being released is usually a lot louder then that and most people (or clients in this case) will ask or demand their stuff to come out as loud as the competition. it's the never ending story of loudness wars.
(btw, you mean AES 17 RMS, right?)
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jan 24, 2014 18:00
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jan 24, 2014 18:03
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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1352
Posted : Jan 25, 2014 17:18
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it depends on the dynamics of the mix itself. with a well mixed tune, with proper gain staging, it can be loud as hell, going as high as -9dB without much clipping, let alone aliasing. (clipping here, I mean the gain reduction on the limiter, not actual digital clipping of course)
but that kind of mix doesn't come by to often and would certainly not advise people to aim for that kind of loudness either, just because it's somehow become the standard.
what I think matters the most is the actual mix. many people say you can leave a lot of dynamics intact for the mastering engineer, but honestly - this is just my opinion, of course - I think controlling those peaks is part of the production/mixing stage. and the relative volume between the groups - like mentioned above - is very, very important for this!
anyway, let's shut up and let the good sharing continue! sorry for deviating this a bit out of topic guys! cheers |
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jan 26, 2014 12:11
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TranceAphobic
Started Topics :
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29
Posted : Jan 27, 2014 10:17
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anyway, let's shut up and let the good sharing continue! sorry for deviating this a bit out of topic guys! cheers
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No worries- if its music production related then its all good.
I'd like to quote a paragrapth from adgmastering.com, about RMS.
"Each mastering studio has different requirements that are based on personal preferences and on the equipment they’re using. I would say a good level pre-mastering for a mix would be around -14dbs. Keep in mind this isn’t a hard rule, if it sounds better at -12dbs than leave it at that.
However, don’t send a song in at -3db and expect your mastering engineer to take you seriously. What are they going to do with that? You are basically shoving a pool of mush into a box to be squeezed into an even smaller box. Does that even sound right?
Peak RMS vs Average RMS
Another thing to keep in mind is the dynamic range of your song. A lot of heavy metal songs are unlistenable because their dynamic range is so small.
For example, they’ll have a peak RMS of -2db and an average RMS of -4db. That’s a very small dynamic range, just – 2db, which basically means the song is all loud. Some of the best sounding songs have much bigger dynamic ranges say from about – 7db to -10db and it is because the loud parts and the soft parts contrast well with each other.
*Remember our ear only knows what is loud when we hear something soft. It is just like color. If you think the walls in your house are white, hold a white piece of paper up to it, doesn’t look so white anymore?*
House songs have used dynamic range to ad infinitum by having these long drawn out parts with no bass or kick and that eventually lead to the cliche build up and then the boom. The reason it is so popular and works so well is because that dynamic range between the quiet part and loud parts is what builds emotion.
Remember music is all about stirring emotion in the listener. Having a large dynamic range is one tool that can build anticipation and emotion."
http://www.adgmastering.com/rms-level-before-mastering/
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