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Why not?
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nataraj
Started Topics :
4
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9
Posted : Aug 27, 2003 16:38
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Maybe the most suitable suggestion for all of us who wants to listen to the music and cannot afford the prices of CDs (wich by the way seems inevitable that the prices will fall), is that we (the crowd) can download the music thrue the Internet. In addition the artists can preform in private/public parties or in festivals, so that their income will benefit the process of further music production. Hence the parties will increase in number and the positive energy will spread. And eventually the crowd will increase.
Maybe the only solution is therefore a whole restructuration of the music production industry for this culture. As the culture is small in comparance with others the labels most surely will not survive for long; the prices for albums are high and will keep rising simultaniously as ingenious ways of downloading music thrue the net will be a reality.
Love & Light
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Jeff
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
180
Posted : Aug 27, 2003 16:45
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Quote:
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On 2003-08-27 16:38, nataraj wrote:
In addition the artists can preform in private/public parties or in festivals,
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What about artists who never get booked to parties because organizers are afraid of taking artistic risk ? |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Aug 27, 2003 17:04
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Exactly my thought Jeff.
The problem is that it's only around 5-10% of the artists that get booked regulary as live acts or dj's. The rest never or very rare get a booking. Mainly because the promoters /organisers bet on the safe horses.... The only artists that will benefit from this are the ones that already get booked !
I my opinion there's no excuse whatsoever to not buy music. If I can't afford a pair of jeans or a TV I dont take them for "free". I save up money and buy them. Try it... It actually feel damn good to buy something with your hard earned cash.
I wonder where all the people get money for weed, drugs and where they get money to eat from? maybe if they would cut down on the weed, drugs, cigarettes, alchohol and junk food they would actually be able to afford to buy some music !!!
I am not accusing you nataraj... just expressing my views on the subject. |
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nova
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
556
Posted : Aug 27, 2003 17:47
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On 2003-08-27 17:04, Elysium Project wrote:
I wonder where all the people get money for weed, drugs and where they get money to eat from?
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weed drugs and food are baisacly human needs 
 just flow baby... just flow... |
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Hg
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
73
Posts :
1076
Posted : Aug 27, 2003 17:48
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nataraj, imo your idea would not work, not only for the reasons listed above, but also because having big trance parties very often is not a suitable thing in most places, imo. Reasons are that the crowd would have to be rich, police would have to be blind, artists would have to be free to travel around all the time, hence loosing time to work... and so on.....
I dont usually comment on this type of topic because I think it leads to nowhere. Elysium always gives good and anti-trading answers and he was one of all that influenced my way of thought. But, i'm commenting on this because I STRONGLY disagree with Elysium on the things he said...
1. "If I can't afford a pair of jeans or a TV I dont take them for "free". I save up money and buy them." This is a cheap argument, I myself spend money on clothes once or twice a year, and I buy clothes that last forever. Music comes up on DAILY/weekly/monthly basis.
2. "I wonder where all the people get money for weed, drugs and where they get money to eat from? maybe if they would cut down on the weed, drugs, cigarettes, alchohol and junk food they would actually be able to afford to buy some music !!!" Please shush...  ... Dont generalize!!! You dont have this right!
Other than that, I agree with elysiums position in not stealing music, in saving money and respecting the artists. Downloading is illegal and immoral, althought it may be ethical.
Another thing directed to artists. IMO the best thing is not to buy this threads... BUT, if you do, try understanding both points of view and think before saying and protesting your rights.
On the other hand, nataraj, i wish you find a wise and moral solution to have your music evern if you dont have money. It's possible... check the other threads on this forum!
respect!
cna't find it |
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NeutroN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
69
Posts :
875
Posted : Aug 27, 2003 21:26
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why don't we just abolish money, then everthing will be free, no mp3/artist conflict anymore.
"Great things are only possible with outrageous requests." Thea Alexander |
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solipt1c
Soliptic
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
349
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 01:42
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speaking as an artist (albeit one with only a single track signed up), who hopes to make a living from making music, i actually agree with nataraj...
well... not that i think everyone SHOULD download the tracks for free, and artists only make money from live appearances... but i think this is what WILL happen to the music world. in fact, in a way, its what already happens! maybe its not 0%/100% yet, but i bet you most artists (in dance music at least) get more than half their income from live appearances.
think about it... even if an artist gets a whole album to themselves with a decent royalty rate... say 50% of profits... well, if they're a new artist, they'd be lucky to sell 2000 copies.
2000 *12 = 24000. i dont know how much costs are in psytrance specifically, but by the time the distributor is paid, the shop is paid, VAT and taxes are paid, the artwork and manufacturing is paid... lets just say there is 15000 left. That leaves the artist with £7500 - for something that probably took 6 months to make... thats an annual wage of £15000 - not much at all really - and my figures here are being GENEROUS!
Whereas if you get, say, £500 for each live set, and you can do, say, 5 sets a week, that means you can make £7500 in 3 weeks.
Again , my figures dont purport to be accurate, but my principle still holds... most artists get a lot more money from sets than record sales...
and whether people like it or not, the easier downloading music gets (as if it could get any easier) the more it will happen. in fact i'd say we're already in the situation where the ONLY real reason to buy music is the moral reason. and there are a lot of people with no morals at all, and even more people who have morals but not much money, and so convince themselves to 'bend' their ethics.
http://www.dartrecordings.co.uk/ |
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salvia_divinorum
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
1123
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 03:55
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totally agree with your last paragraph solipt1c
When I dance, I put myself in the DJ's hands to take me to a journey - the unconscious journey to reality
KARKEIJA KREW!!!!!!!! dancing is the phrr fo da powa |
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The Funky Munkey
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
21
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 05:28
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Ok it is hard to buy loads of cd's and fuck oath I"ve spent $4-5,000 Australiaian in the last three years on psytrance n' psychill... it feels great, yeah maybe I could have spent the money on better things, a trip overseas, but I"m 23 and I have a lot of time left to do those things... I have not downloaded a single song in my life off the internet, save ones from mp3.com or demos given to me by an artist or from and artist site... if you can;t afford it don't get it, simple... if you want it get ajob, even tho the job sucks you'll be buying cd's, and online cd's are so cheap I can;t believe anybody makes money from it... stop making excuses and get a job and pay for what you want. |
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kilokif
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
125
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 09:34
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excuse me but elysium are you stephane from elysium or not? |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 10:04
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To Solipt1c:
Show me one artist in this scene that play 5 live gigs a week. It's totally utopia what you're suggesting. Take it from someone who's been in this scene as an artists since 1993. It will never work as you suggest. why? because organisers will always only go for the safe acts and dj's. It's been like this as long as I can remember and I seriously doubt it will change. If your model have to work then all artists should get bookings. Well they don't get bookings and no matter how good their music are and no matter how good dj's they are the fact remain that it's the top 10 artists and dj's that can live from the gigs.... noone else can ! It's easy to want to be come a top notch dj/artist - it's very very hard to live it out !
I see a lot of people suggesting that the more people downloading music the more an artists will become known and the more he/she will sell and play live.... Well I don't buy that argument.... Simply because it still haven't happened to many many artists.... even though downloading have been a part of this scene for a long time now....
to kilokif: No I am Kristian from Elysium Project  |
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solipt1c
Soliptic
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
349
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 12:59
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hey...
it wasnt supposed to be a utopia... i said i dont think it *should* be that way, just that it may well end up that way...whether we like it or not
as for the numbers... ah, well, i said i didnt really know the real numbers i guess 5 a week is pretty ambitious for psy...i'm happy to stand corrected... thats certainly how it works in drumnbass tho... an average artist will get £500 for each vinyl, but £500 for each dj set, and they will easily play 5 times a week... its a shame the psy scene isnt big enough to support that really :/
btw i'm only solipt1c because i registered as soliptic , tried to login, "no such user soliptic", tried to register again, "user soliptic already exists"... damn forum :/
http://www.dartrecordings.co.uk/ |
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Daash
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
10
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 14:38
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not a lot of money in trance
not a lot of cds available in India
Big market
No one capatilizes
Mp3 Mafias take over
and buddy we have what you got and much much more
you can have a product on your shelves
collecting dust. I for one love originals and waves and try not to get into the mp3 scene
We do get a lot of artists down
infact all the big boys have come played and gone
I for one would not want to hear substandard acts cause there are some good djs here too
You want to make money.... capatalize on djs who play waves get a list and send them cds promos we ll pay. |
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patrick
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
108
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 15:32
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an average drumnbass artist gets 500 pounds for a gig five times a week?!? sorry
dude i just cant belive that...
anyway it wont work for the psyscene, as other already mentioned here, organizer (like labels as well) dont want to take risk, so u end up hearing the same artists/music all over again, which is bloody boring. and thats one mayor reason why i rarely go to psy parties anymore these days.
i really dont see a problem to buy the music. i go every week to recordstores and im happy when i find 2 good vinyls a week, often i dont find any that i like...
i wouldnt go that far to say downloading is like stealing a car or whatsoever, but its pathetic to come up with lame excuses like i have no money or the like. there is no human right for free music. |
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Drope
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
278
Posted : Aug 28, 2003 20:50
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I think this topic is overdone, but anyway...
I download a massive amount of music through the internet AND buy cd´s. I hv some burned cd´s but THE QUALITY seems to be THE ONLY reason to buy cd´s. It´s not a moral bla bla bla that will make pp buy cd´s... it´s much simpler to say, you don´t really get to know a song hearing it on mp3...
As I said, I download lot´s of music trhough the net, most of it get deleted: it´s incomplete or plain sucks... But if I like it, I´ll try to buy it... In Brasil it´s not easy to buy psy cds... ordering from the internet each cd gets around 25 dollars IT´S QUITE A LOT (nomatter how much money you make)!!!
We hv a brazillian label that has some agreements with tip and others I think, and they do a great job tring to bring cds at an affordable price (about 10 dollars), but yet... they just made avaiable 'the secret of 13 skulls', great cd, but not new at all...
Usually I download a song by the artist and the album, trying to avoid first and last song (cause they can differ from the album spirit) and if I like it I´ll either try to find someone who already has the cd or download 2 or 3 more songs, and if I really like it, I´ll try and buy it.
Eskimo´s cd I bought after dl does this look infected 2u and hearing a friends cd (then I reviewed it here)... NOW I PROUDLY HV IT
Fatali I dl keep it real, then Ultrasmooth, then moments... loved then all... NOW I HV IT.
A flock of bleeps I bought blindsided, but cmon... can u really doubt some thing posford does???
And many others... I don´t hv any progress cd, and I know I don´t like it cause I dl some, u won´t find them in my hd, I DIDN´T LIKE THEM!!!
There´s no such think as mp3 mafia... mp3 is a reallity, scene pp hv to decide to work with it, or against it... anyway though, tecnology doesn´t seems, to me, as something that can be defeated...
respect |
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