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Whats the deal with honesty man?
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DeSerT.StOrM
Started Topics :
1
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108
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 03:34
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if you give somebody your track to listen to wouldnt you want their honest opinion of it, especially if they give you a good insight into some areas you could improve upon in your music? Chances are if one person notices it then other people will too...constructive criticism is good, but theres no need to be rude.
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Nothing can accelerate to the speed of light because its mass would become infinite |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 12:07
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If I give my track to a label I want them to tell me the truth and say if they like it or not. BUT I dont want them to tell me to change this and that. My tracks are as they are because that's the way I like them to be and if a lable dont like it then just say "no thanks". |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 14:58
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 15:47
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On 2005-06-12 14:58, Colin OOOD wrote:
Inspiration can come from everywhere, an the ultimate aim is, after all, to make the best music we can.
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very good one Colin, I agree with you.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 16:09
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Yuli can you change some things for me in your music?
Like turning those 138bpm to 146 for example?
LOL
Yeah tottally aggree with Colin also here 
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 16:52
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sorry i dont agree here. I make my tracks the way I think they should be and if the label dont agree...bad luck. It's the same as telling a painter to change the colors in the painting so it fit the sofa better. |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 20:01
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I usually tell people what I think about their music when they ask me, or when it really did something to me.
As a label A&R, I sometimes suggest to the artists I'm working with to make changes in their creation, if this is my opinion. But I always take good care to stress that this is just my suggestion and it is their art and not mine and it's them who decide how it would be in the end. If I don't like it, I would just not release it. Sometimes they like my suggestions and try to implement them- sometimes the outcome is good and we both like it, sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes they don't like my suggestions and I let them say the final word and accept their opinion, even if I thought different, because I'm working with them to begin with because I like their music and believe in it.
Anyway, usually, I won't say "change the kick" or "put a guitar there" but more things like "I feel something is missing in the end" or "don't you think it'll be nice if you add some high piano melody to contrast that fuzzy bass" or "maybe a harmonic change in the chorus would make this song more interesting?".
I think that it's nice if a label-artist relationship is that of cooperation and mutual nourishment. I like the artists I'm working on to ask my opinion because they appreciate it (and that is why they signed with me) the same way I appreciate them (and that is why I signed them).
Yuli and I just discussed this last week, and both agreed, that this is also pretty much a matter of personality. Some people can work this way and some the other way.
I don't think there is right or wrong here.
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 22:10
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Kristian listening someones opinion doesnt mean that you are going to follow it also.
You gave a nice example with the job of a painter,lets say he brings me a painting which i think needs a small change,i suggest to him that change and he just implements it,not because i said to him to do so just for me to buy the painting,but because he thinks that that change will make the painting look even better.
I mean if you send me a track and i say to you to add something and you also think that this addition is just great you wont add it just because you didnt thought of it originally or because i advised you to do so?
Two minds think better than one.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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ND
ProSect
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
919
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 22:16
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i must totally agree with shahar here, it depends on personality, so both sides need to understand this.
but i wish i could hear suggestions only about harmonic/contrast stuff, i've heard comments like "you need high rolling bass here like xxx has", "remove this melody and make it faster" and even "make me 150bpm killller"... come on!
as shahar said, on small stuff i can try and work it out and if not then skip it to the next with hope that the label undestands.
ND
Without Deviation, Progress Is Not Possible.
www.andivision.com
Sound Field / ProSect / Sonify / Radio Mess |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 00:02
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-12 12:07, HandA wrote:
If I give my track to a label I want them to tell me the truth and say if they like it or not. BUT I dont want them to tell me to change this and that. My tracks are as they are because that's the way I like them to be and if a lable dont like it then just say "no thanks".
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Usually I am quite hard with my finished projects, when it comes down to changing - but when I hear a constructive critisizm that actually has a point, or I feel that this is something I have missed myself, I reopen and fix for sure
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 02:09
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When I make music i use a lot of time getting into the small details and my arrangement, sounds, mixing etc etc. I never release a track that I feel miss something or that i feel could be better. That's just the way I am and the way i work. So if a lable need it to be different then I 99.9% of the time say no thanks.
Of course I also listen to critique (if it's reasonable and if I agree) and I have at times even agreed (even to edit tracks that were too long according to the label) but I was mostly thinking about comments like:
Your kick need to be replaced with a stronger kik.
The track is too slow.
The loops should be replaced with real drums.
The beat is not groovey enough. Here's an example of what you should do (then they want to transfer a track they like).
etc etc.
And many times those remarks come from artists themselves that run a label.
Yes constructive critism is ok and fine but examples like the above ones are rude and disrespectful. In my opinion of course.
And again I dobt many paintes will say:
"Fine i'll change the color in the painting so it fit your sofa" 
Some would show the "Bird" and walk away
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 02:19
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-12 22:10, DETOX wrote:
You gave a nice example with the job of a painter,lets say he brings me a painting which i think needs a small change,i suggest to him that change and he just implements it,not because i said to him to do so just for me to buy the painting,but because he thinks that that change will make the painting look even better. |
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You know very well that the world dont work that way.. If you ask the painter to change the painting it's damn sure that if he dont you dont want to buy it.. so you put him under preasure and he will change it even though he dont agree but because he need the money
It's the same way labels put artists under preassure by telling them to change their music. I personally make sure that I get 100% free hands (within the genre i agreed on to release) when I make a CD and I simply dont release compilation tracks with someone telling me how I should make my music. But I know there's a lot of even tallented more "green" artists that get preasured to change their music because the labels think they know better and because they want all artists to sound similar and follow a "manual" that the label set up in order to sell more Cd's (which they dont nessesary do anyway)
And this basically go for all genres - not only Full on but progressive too.
Thats what I am aiming at here.
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 03:56
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Thankfully Van Gogh is dead otherwise i would ask him to change couple of things in Starry Night and Terrasse De Cafe hehehe.
Sorry Kristian but we dissaggree on this topic.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Ott^
OTT
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
488
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 08:55
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I think when somebody asks you what you think of their music, they mean either one of two things.
1. What do you honestly think of my music?
2. I need some encouragement. Please make me feel good about what I'm doing.
During my time working as a studio engineer, I learned one piece of wisdom that served me well on every session.
If a singer is recording a take and it sounds terrible, if, when they ask me how it sounds, I say "Bloody awful..!" then the next take will be even worse.
If, on the other hand, I focus on the positive aspects of what they are doing ["the tuning is great" or "the phrasing is very good"...] and try to build their confidence, the second take is usually better.
If somebody asks me what i think of their tune, i consider the following. Just because it doesn't exactly match my taste, doesn't make it a bad piece of art. Its just not to my taste.
So - with that in mind, I am now free to comment upon what i LIKE about the tune and not dwell on the parts I might not favour.
Artists in general are sensitive souls and they don't react very well to negative criticism. There is no way I will ever diss somebody's work just because it doesn't fit with my taste - far better to emphasise the good bits and build the person's confidence.
On the other hand, if somebody says to me "My kik drum sounds shit and I don't know why - can you help?" then I have absolutely no problem with telling them exactly what i think - even if it means telling them their kik drum is, indeed, shit.
I think its important to try to judge what people are actually asking when they seek an opinion, because it can be tempting to wank your ego all over them and bury them in opinions that they don't really need or want.
For the record, I totally respect the opinions of everyone who likes my music.
Everyone else can fuck right off.
p.s. On another forum i visit, we started a thread called "The Encouragement Thread" where people who were a bit stuck with their tune could post up a work in progress and ask for encouragement.
Negative criticism was banned and only positive opinions were allowed.
It had about 3000 replies in a few weeks and was one of the more popular threads on the board. It also helped a lot of people gain confidence and finish their tracks.
As it turned out, most people who asked "What do you think of this?" really meant "Say something nice please - my confidence needs a boost.."
Nothing wrong with that I reckon.... |
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Mahamudra (Sagiv)
Mahamudra
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
173
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 11:02
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did ya post there something of yours? 
EDIT* by the way "Artists in general are sensitive souls and they don't react very well to negative criticism" INDEED! --------------------------------------------
www.myspace.com/mahamudraaa
www.betarecords.com/mahamudra
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