| Author
|
What happened to vinyl?
|
HRH
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
0
Posted : Jan 22, 2004 21:11
|
I was reading the "Ban Mp3?" topic when i saw a reply from elysium project saying.Quote:
| The problem with mp3's on sound systems at parties is that the sound mostly get "muddy" and at high volume also many times start to distort. That is to me a huge difference from the clear sound on CD's ! But vinyl is for sure the best if you want dynamic soundquality. |
|
I love vinyl, but have been watching the number of releases slow to barely nothing. I presume this is for the obvious reason that vinyl isn't making enough money. Personally, i find mixing on vinyl much more fun and much more interactive than cd. Do any professional djs still play on vinyl? I know that Mark Allen, here in england, has recently sold his vinyl collection to a lucky shop owner in Brighton. Are vinyl decks still provided at any parties? How has vinyl become nearly obsolete in this genre, but remains the standard for djs of other dance musics?
|
|
|
Seb
Son Kite
Started Topics :
47
Posts :
207
Posted : Jan 22, 2004 21:27
|
Less and less people are playing with vinyl but if you ask for vinyl players all promoters will provide them for you. There are still a lot of trance djs playing with vinyl and I really hope that they'll continue with that. To release your record on vinyl is always a great feeling .... the cover and graphics looks then times better on a vinyl compared to a little cd In the house scene the standard is still vinyl.
It cose very much to produce the vinyl and the labels mostly loose money when they print vinyl.
 Smile! |
|
|
|
hip
Shuma
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
404
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 00:31
|
More vinyl - less copying
Everyone can rip cds, but to copy a record is a bit harder. I think.
But in trance is possible to mix with cds, cos usually you mix for 1 min and its over, but in techno, cds will never put vinyl out of use. |
|
|
|
time traveller
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
47
Posts :
110
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 01:06
|
The main problem is that the labels themselves are at fault , reason the continous release of cd's !!!!
I'm sorry for any new kid wantin to become a dj it's far easier to obtain material in any other style from his local rec shop .....than it is tryin to obtain psy trance ....
FACT !!!!!!!!!!!
trust me people out of all the shops i spend my cash , i've only been lucky 5 times in obtaining psy material from those shops ....and they are 23rd precint , carbon recs , hmv and fopp .
Also i hate cd's because majority of the time ....most of the tracks work well b2b ...but with cd albums ... u have to buy 2 copies .
And another problem is that the distributors they use rarely do they shops i've mentioned ever use them .
I have tried on countless occasions for those shops to stock psy material .....usual it wont't sell ...y
cos ..none of the usuall suspects ever play it !!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 05:39
|
Vinyl is too heavy and bulky, though it sounds good and is fun to play with. I've tried lugging crates with me to festivals and on planes - it sucks.
besides, the psy mixing technique usually doesn't involve extensive manipulation of records, like hiphop or House. Thus CDs - much more convenient and cheap. |
|
|
|
karnaf
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
1745
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 12:51
|
For some strange reason, vinyls became a standard for house while CDs are the standard for trance. Maybe it's because of the nature parties, you know, the rough environment, the heat, not too good for the vinyls...
I dont know many DJs who play with vinyls (last I saw I think was Michael from Native Radio). I dont think places and organizers provide decks for vinyls too....
Please REMOVE my cellphone number from any SMS spam list you may have. Thanks.
http://www.savetherhino.org |
|
|
|
Lepton
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
158
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 13:53
|
I dj with cdj for a year now and recently I started to practice with vinyl because everybody I know that can play with vinyls can play with everything : cdj, minidisc but those who only use cdj can't mix with vynil (at least me and my mates couldn't). I must say that I still think djing with cdj's is much easier and for the beatmatching I think that everyone can learn it with cdj's no matter what, which I don't think that can be said about turntables.
greetz |
|
|
|
Lepton
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
158
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 14:46
|
the problem I have with turntables (I'm still learning) is pichting your records (which should be done in 30sec if you want to be creative or mix 2 or more min.) ,with cdj you know that 0.7 % is approximately 1 beat so for the beginners it is very easy to pitch you records you just picht following the 0.7 rule (a rule wich I don't need anymore) + when you picht up or down you can see on the display what you've done ,with turntables you can't realy see if you pichted 0.1% or 0.2% you have to do it with your EARS ONLY.
But then again it's all about practice.
nectarios what do you mean with tempo resolution?
|
|
|
|
FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 15:25
|
I think that this cd vinyl story is all about the way musics are mixed...
I think in the psy scene, its more important to choose the right tunes at the right time, than to do crazy mixes with 3 decks.
Its a kind of music that grows until it reaches a climax, and in general that can't be achieved if the track isn't played from begining to end (off course there are exceptions)
In house is more about the mixing, finding tunes that fit with each other, and creating "new" tunes by mixing diferent ones.
Also, most big house DJS are producers as well, mixing their sounds with other tunes, creating some crazy remixes. Most Psy djs just play other ppls music and have no idea about production...
So I think psy mixing is more related to knowing what the crowd needs to jump, while in house is more about mixing musics to create a new diferent thing.
With cds its a much more limited thing, but its easier to carry, harder to damage (the sun in outdoor parties is no good at all for vinyl), and its "safer" to make sure no acidents happen.
|
|
|
|
NeutroN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
69
Posts :
875
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 16:43
|
|
FluoSamsara, couldnt agree more. Another thing that I just wanted to add is that with vinyl their is a big chance of having loads and loads of singles rather than albums released. their are some atrists in some music generes who never release albums just singles and it is a type of music that all djs play with vinyls that is drum n bass
"Great things are only possible with outrageous requests." Thea Alexander |
|
|
|
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 18:56
|
*sigh* I suppose I should chime in, as I am a long-time vinyl advocate... those days have passed however. Nowadays I keep my 'collecting' seperate from my 'djing', for I would never think to say vinyl is no good, but for doing the job at a party it can be a real pain in the ass and offers few benefits of practicality over the CD medium. From a collecting perspective it is nicer to have physical media and big covers, though it is a downside to have cherished records develop skips and pops despite zealous careful handling. From a djing perspective however vinyl is heavy, promoters often don't have turntables or don't know how to set them up right, there is always the danger of maniac dancers setting off skips, and of course bringing your 'collectable' records to a gig is inviting dust and moisture residue to take up residence in the grooves of the vinyl  now that I play on CDs mixing is a piece of cake -cueing vinyl takes a lot of extra time compared to one touch of a button... and I can have greater response time to 'funny breakdowns' that bust out of the 4x4 - fade out, clip back to the cue point instantly, restart when the 4x4 sequence begins again - mix saved! With vinyl I would have still been fumbling around to get to that cue point. There are other reasons as to why CDs are better for mixing nowadays, but they all fall into the realm of convenience and practicality. I won't stop collecting vinyl but I don't think I'd bother to print another one or buy much more in the way of new releases... too bad, but that's how time flows. |
|
|
|
duodenumz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
116
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 20:29
|
"On the contrary vinyl decks' tempo resolution makes it easier to keep things tight for a longer time period. "
this is very true. try to think of digital pitch sliders as having steps like a ladder. you can either be at one step or another, which means the beats are often slightly ahead or behind the other track. with a 1200, the resolution of the slider is very fine indeed, so you can generally get dead-on beatmatches. there isn't any space between the steps, if you get me.
"Its a kind of music that grows until it reaches a climax, and in general that can't be achieved if the track isn't played from begining to end (off course there are exceptions)"
eh, i don't think this is true any longer. with the old goa sounds, the tracks were simply too crazy to beatmatch for any length of time. but modern psy is quite easy to mix, and you can really do creative tricks and layering.
i have an OK mix i just did, and i mixed the tracks using techniques i learned during my techno days (cutting, layering, stabbing sounds in with the line faders, long mixes). i think you'll be surprised by how much more energy it has than a boring quickmix set. i wish i could find a good way to host it, but you can always find me on soulseek (duodenumz). and i'm not mixing progressive. my mixes include tracks from Hujaboy, Beat Hackers, Orion, Infected, Scorb, etc..
vinyl is a mixed love for me. i have 1300 records from my first several years of spinning techno/trance, and they're hardly being used now. as much as i like the format, it is very impractical. you pay USD10 for ONE record here, which means you often pay $10 for the one good track. that is insane when you can get an entire compilation full of good tracks on CD for $15.
and once i have the CDs, i have great sound clarity, and the ability to easily rip them for listening or Traktor mixing. people always talk about how vinyl sounds better. well, maybe if you're looking at the numbers and frequencies involved, and talking about an ideal scenario. but try listening to classic dance music on older, worn vinyl. it doesn't sound good compared to CDs. the demo i just did mixes CDs with vinyl, and the quality is very different.
so, to summarize- i think vinyl is great for styles like techno where you want to drop tracks really quickly and other styles that involve hands-on techniques like scratching. but for trance, i think you benefit from the better sound clarity and tricks you can do with digital mixing.
Final Scratch is a great solution, but then you're back to needing turntables at parties. for that reason, i think the BEST solution is a software like Traktor that allows you to run two outputs to a regular mixer, using WAV files. then you can beatmatch and mix the tracks creatively with the regular faders. AND THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OVER CD DECKS IS THIS- you can see the waveform for the upcoming beats. when mixing vinyl, you realize very quickly that being able to "read" the surface of the vinyl is quite useful. you can tell when breakdowns, empty bars, etc. are coming. psytrance is full of these things. i know the high-end CD decks have an OK waveform display, but not mid-range decks that are at most parties.
what i'm curious about is when/why the switch to vinyl started in the psy scene. it must be a bummer for oldschool psy vinyl collectors to realize they'll rarely ever get to play their hundreds of records at parties.
you'll also notice that the progressive psy scene still supports vinyl. why is that different?? |
|
|
|
technoid
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
230
Posted : Jan 23, 2004 21:12
|
|
I figured CD's were so popular with psytrance DJ's because of the travelling nature of the scene and vinyl being a pain in the arse to carry around, and also because it gets damaged so easily.
"One nation under a groove". |
|
|
|
|
