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A Take on the Global Trance Scene
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paradine
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
17
Posted : Jul 7, 2005 08:36
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Having just read the country reviews in the latest Trancers guide to the Galaxy there are certain trends becomming quickly apparent. Psy Trance is still growing, and in some places quite rapidly.
Many of the reports also mention that they are seeing more and more commercialisation. As the scene is growing people are getting afflicted with the usual human failings of greed, consumerism/consumption, egos etc.
Hand in hand with this the music is diversifying. The genre is forming into easily recognisable genres with a noticible tug from commercialisation. As labels/artists become less of a back room of the house affair, and more true business entities their motives change accordingly. To capture a larger market their music must become more appealing. More palatable to a wider audience. We have seen time and again how once great labels/artists become more and more cheesy. More mainstream.
As the parties grow in popularity they attract attention from mainstream/commercial dance party punters and normal people. This raises the dickhead quota and then stupid things start to happen. Further and more unwanted attention then comes from the authorities. Across the world in the once great trance centres organisers and party goers are getting harassed. In some places parties are closed down and others never go ahead. For the first time in Voov's 13 year history the Police have said they will be having undercover police at the festival.
The scene is getting diluted and the ideals that once were so appealing are getting pushed to the side. As the hard core psy trance people notice this they either move on to other ventures (gracefully exiting the psy scene apart from rare events) or go underground again.
Around the world it seems collectives are doing smaller underground parties. Friends and acquaintances, DJ's, producers, VJ, deco artists, performers. People in the know. The vibe is good and the parties have a fantastic energy. The focus returns to the music and the whole psychedelic experience. Once again psychedelics become the predominant drug and because of this the global community is revitalising even as it is becoming fragmented and commercialised.
The time is right to make a difference. Add your suppport to the scene to encourage it in the direction you would like to see it go.
_________________
Paradine (www.psydj.com)
Become the Change we want to see - Gandhi |
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Madpup
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
174
Posted : Jul 7, 2005 11:44
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I think the ratio of dickheads to non-dickheads stays contant throughtout the growth of any scene. There are many dickheads who were in the trance scene from the inception, as there are many great people who are just discovering the scene now and don't know anything about it. |
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psy^soldier
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
922
Posted : Jul 7, 2005 13:57
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paradine
you say importent things i surf to your site and i see alot of fullon alboms i think you must admit that today fullon is the cuse of the trance commercialisation |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Jul 7, 2005 15:15
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@Paradine
First I would like to say that your post was a well written piece of information, and you seem to be very a observative person 
Quote Paradine
"Having just read the country reviews in the latest Trancers guide to the Galaxy there are certain trends becomming quickly apparent. Psy Trance is still growing, and in some places quite rapidly."
I beg to differ, I can only speak for my own country - But I distinctly feel that the psytrance scene is not growing, its very much on the retreat. I base this on 2 indications.
The first one is parties, fewer people go to parties here in Denmark, and it doesnt matter whether it is in the east or the western part of the country. Comparing, especially smaller events, with what they often looked like around 1997/1999 it would seem fever people go.
Another indicator I would say is the trance online communities we have, fewer people are active there as well, as compared to what it was like just a couple of years ago.
I dont presume to know what it is like in other countries, not at all - Im sure, the popularity and growth of the scene is often very much associated to when the music was introduced in a certain country, as well as how easy/cheap it is to put on parties in that country.
To put on a psy party for around 500 people in one of the bigger towns here, you will need around 1500 Euros (that price doesnt cover any fees for djs or artist, and only the most rudimentary amount of deco). However, in any likelyhood you will only have about 50-100 people showing up unless you book big expensive artists!
So, lets do the math for the organizer. 1500 divided by 100 = 15 Euros per head, to go and hear unknown DJs, no liveacts... There, you have a price basis to build on,. Sure, some clubs can do this cheaper, but if you want to go out and create something special, away from the normal nightlife (what most of the real psyfreaks really want), thats whats realistic here.
Quote Paradine
"Many of the reports also mention that they are seeing more and more commercialisation. As the scene is growing people are getting afflicted with the usual human failings of greed, consumerism/consumption, egos etc."
Greed, consumerism, consumption etc - I very much doubt they were magicly non existent "in the old days" - I just think it took some time for people to become aware of them. Actually, I feel better about the financial aspects of our scene nowadays, since we are more aware of all these people trying to bullshit us into thinking that everything is "non commercial" or whatever... Look alike hippies feeding us bullshit, no thanks!
Quote Paradine
"Hand in hand with this the music is diversifying. The genre is forming into easily recognisable genres with a noticible tug from commercialisation."
It has been like that since 1996/97, no news there. There we get "Goa Trance" and "Psychedelic Trance" - I dont see this as a problem at all, just means the music evolves.
Quote Paradine
"As labels/artists become less of a back room of the house affair, and more true business entities their motives change accordingly. To capture a larger market their music must become more appealing. More palatable to a wider audience. We have seen time and again how once great labels/artists become more and more cheesy. More mainstream."
Actually, I think a lot of these "true businesses" have gone bancrupt since MP3 became a practical media. I think you are very wrong here, in saying that labels and artists become less of a back room house affair. Since software synths and musical programs have become practical, more and more amateur labels and artists make their breakthru.
I think, this is very clear from all the new labels and artists, and from the lack of musical evolution per release you see now, compared to the 1995->2000 era.
More and more labels and artists want you to believe they are professionals and established businesses now, than "in the old days" - This is logical, since they are fighting hard to set them apart from the other amateurs. They need bookings, since they cant earn enough income by selling CDs.
In order to get bookings, they need a professional image... Also, to justify high fees, they need an image which will allow them to ask for more. (this forces the organizers to become more commercially minded, and in the end it is damaging to the experience of the psy freak, but thats the thanks he gets from leeching all them MP3s, poetic justice - KARMA
I do agree with you, in that many artists try to make their music perhaps softer, or more cheesy in order to get the gigs where the big money is - Which is LARGE events, where they might get 2000-6000 Euros for a gig. This is A LOT of money, and will keep them alive for a long time. I cant really blame them.
Quote Paradine
"As the parties grow in popularity they attract attention from mainstream/commercial dance party punters and normal people. This raises the dickhead quota and then stupid things start to happen. Further and more unwanted attention then comes from the authorities. Across the world in the once great trance centres organisers and party goers are getting harassed. In some places parties are closed down and others never go ahead. For the first time in Voov's 13 year history the Police have said they will be having undercover police at the festival."
You have several points in this section.
1.: About parties growing and attracting more "normal" people. We are all normal I think, more or less. Normal people, what is that ? Are they the crowd who do not try to look like hippies ? I think, normal people coming into our scene isnt a bad thing, as long as they come for the music, and not something else like drugs or "just the vibe".
2.: About the dickhead quota - I think that quota is relative to the total amount of people in one spot.
3.: Unwanted attention from the authorities. Yes, the more people are gathered, the more police is needed.
4.: VooV Experience. For a festival where MDMA, LSD and other drugs are sold so openly, I think its astonishing that the police is first announcing the use of undercover cops now. Who are to blame ? Drug dealers! (they all look like wannabe hippies by the way) - No need to argue this, people know how they look.... Certainly not like "normal people"
5.: About party organizers getting harassed, getting closed etc - We have this in Denmark as well, its one of the big factors in killing our scene. Drugs are to blame again... or people on drugs.
Quote Paradine
"The scene is getting diluted and the ideals that once were so appealing are getting pushed to the side. As the hard core psy trance people notice this they either move on to other ventures (gracefully exiting the psy scene apart from rare events) or go underground again."
Very true indeed. I think, its a blessing that people manage to stay together and create those "rare events", or else, it would all be gone. Also, if people just give up without a fight, it means it perhaps wasnt worth fighting for in the first place, and perhaps just one big giant waste of our time and youth?
Quote Paradine
"Around the world it seems collectives are doing smaller underground parties. Friends and acquaintances, DJ's, producers, VJ, deco artists, performers. People in the know. The vibe is good and the parties have a fantastic energy. The focus returns to the music and the whole psychedelic experience. Once again psychedelics become the predominant drug and because of this the global community is revitalising even as it is becoming fragmented and commercialised."
People are tired of the dickheads you describe, and they dont want their experience which is supposed to be pure get polluted by the wrong people and energies. Theres no way around this I think. When what people truely love is 1.: The music and 2.: the vibe coming from the music, then small underground events will do just fine for them. The dont need any big names... Of course, a big venue would be nice - But, you can only book those if you have a big name, so, underground events is whats left.
Quote Paradine
"The time is right to make a difference. Add your suppport to the scene to encourage it in the direction you would like to see it go. "
I agree, its up to people to take responsibility for their surroundings and to do what they can to affect them in a positive manner.... Also, try to think a bit about what truely is positive and negative for our scene. Its not always as obvious as putting on a party is nescesseraly a good thing.
Great topic
Krell Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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paradine
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
17
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 08:33
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Quote:
paradine
you say importent things i surf to your site and i see alot of fullon alboms i think you must admit that today fullon is the cuse of the trance commercialisation
__________________________
I have to disagree. I think the usual human failings ar ethe cause. Generally this defaults to greed and power. Where greed = $ and power = ego.
The commercialism was inevitable. Full on is not to blame at all.
The only full on I listen to these days is the dark twisted, psychedelic stuff. The stuff that isn't commercial. I'll leave the prog, cheesy disco housey trance, neo full on, dicso full on, Israeli trance, morning trance etc etc to other people. Right time and right place for sure. Just not on my watch!
I'll take the twisted psychedelica and have a ball. Sure it's full on chaos - but it isn't commercial and is not to blame for the $ signs in peoples eyes. |
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paradine
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
17
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 09:00
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Quote:
Krell
I beg to differ, I can only speak for my own country - But I distinctly feel that the psytrance scene is not growing, its very much on the retreat. I base this on 2 indications.
I don't think so on a global scale. You only need to look a the amount of releases to know that the scene is growing. Some countries it may be in decline but many more is is growing rapidly and this is only going to get more so as it becomes more mainstream.
Quote:
Greed, consumerism, consumption etc - I very much doubt they were magicly non existent "in the old days" - I just think it took some time for people to become aware of them. Actually, I feel better about the financial aspects of our scene nowadays, since we are more aware of all these people trying to bullshit us into thinking that everything is "non commercial" or whatever... Look alike hippies feeding us bullshit, no thanks!
I am sure they were there in the early days as well, but it wasn't the norm. Now it seems that the $ is the most important thing. Inspite of the cost of putting on parties and loosing money people still do it. Why? Because they believe in it. Not because they want to get rich living of psy trance. Any money you get from putting on parties, DJ'ing, Dece, VJ'ing, producing tracks is IMHO a BONUS not a right.
People think they should get paid for everything. This is commercialism. Screw that. Do it for the love of it or not at all. That is why the scene has gone commercial. People expect to be rewarded for all their hard effort. They think they deserve a payback. I will continue doing it because it is what I believe in.
People think they need loads of punters and door sales because then they can afford the 'big' name acts. Why? Who wants to see GMS AGAIN! They can keep their $3000 Euro or whatever. I'll book a cheap local artist (not that NZ has any yet), or another up and coming talent instead. Someone like Blissagorgon. Someone without ego. Someone who loves what they are doing and think the money is a bonus not a right.
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It has been like that since 1996/97, no news there. There we get "Goa Trance" and "Psychedelic Trance" - I dont see this as a problem at all, just means the music evolves.
It isn't really a problem. Just means that there is loads of crap (again obviously IMHO) out there in all these sub genres. It also shows that the scene is expanding.
Quote:
Actually, I think a lot of these "true businesses" have gone bancrupt since MP3 became a practical media. I think you are very wrong here, in saying that labels and artists become less of a back room house affair. Since software synths and musical programs have become practical, more and more amateur labels and artists make their breakthru.
I think, this is very clear from all the new labels and artists, and from the lack of musical evolution per release you see now, compared to the 1995->2000 era.
I think we agree here actually. The older more establishhed labels are either gone - or gone commercial. The New, fresh talent will alway continue to be back room home studios. The rest have gone commercial to keep the $ coming in. It is easier to go commercial than continue being good.
Quote:
They need bookings, since they cant earn enough income by selling CDs.
In order to get bookings, they need a professional image... Also, to justify high fees, they need an image which will allow them to ask for more.
I think I covered this above. A Bonus not a right. Do it for the love of it. Hard hard hard to do if you want to be full time psy producer but possible.
Quote:
This is A LOT of money, and will keep them alive for a long time. I cant really blame them.
I can Stupid egos to be 'requiring' that sort of money. Anyone asking that much is past their expiry IMHO. Get some good NEW talent instead.
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paradine
Started Topics :
5
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17
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 09:14
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Cont...
Quote:
1.: About parties growing and attracting more "normal" people. We are all normal I think, more or less. Normal people, what is that ? Are they the crowd who do not try to look like hippies ? I think, normal people coming into our scene isnt a bad thing, as long as they come for the music, and not something else like drugs or "just the vibe".
Personally I don't think I am normal. If I was normal I would be like everyone else. Born. Work. Die. I am not very similar to any people really, except for pockets of fantastic people i have met through the Psy scene. At work in my shitty 9-5 IT job - I feel Like i am undercover. They are 'normal' people. I/we are the exceptions. Not in an arrogant way, just in that my whole outlook on life is soooo different to theirs. These are normal peole. If they knew what I would like to be doing with my life the would probably consider me some sort if freak. I take that as a compliment.
Quote:
2.: About the dickhead quota - I think that quota is relative to the total amount of people in one spot.
This is true for sure. It is all relative. My point was that from experience I have more chance of meeting someone I could become a friend with at a true Psychedelic event. This is a LOT less likely to occur with a group of normal people. Say at a pub. Or at a rugby game. Or at work. Wherever. Therefore it stands to reason that from my point of view the more normals at a party the less people that I am going to have a real connection with. The less connection I have with someone the more likely I am to percieve them as a bit of a dick. I know it isn't charitable of me. But it is they way I feel. See this link for a topic on 'Elitism' in the psytrance scene:
http://www.psydj.com/forum/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=354
Quote:
5.: About party organizers getting harassed, getting closed etc - We have this in Denmark as well, its one of the big factors in killing our scene. Drugs are to blame again... or people on drugs.
Sad isn't it? And I only see this increasing as the scene goes commercial. Dickhead quota again.
Quote:
Very true indeed. I think, its a blessing that people manage to stay together and create those "rare events", or else, it would all be gone. Also, if people just give up without a fight, it means it perhaps wasnt worth fighting for in the first place, and perhaps just one big giant waste of our time and youth?
And for me this is the direction I will focus my energy. I still believe in the ideals...
Quote:
I agree, its up to people to take responsibility for their surroundings and to do what they can to affect them in a positive manner.... Also, try to think a bit about what truely is positive and negative for our scene. Its not always as obvious as putting on a party is nescesseraly a good thing.
I think this is a key point:
its up to people to take responsibility for their surroundings and to do what they can to affect them in a positive manner....
There is hope. Nuture it...
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psy^soldier
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
922
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 09:34
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well i dont think we are normal:p |
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Pisces1979
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
206
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 18:35
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Here in New York City Psytrance is very underground and very diverse. There is maybe 300 people who will show up for a big name party, but most parties are 50-100 people.
It is very Ironic that a city of 10 million people has such a tiny psytrance scene. I like it though, because I know almost everyone in the scene here by face if not by name. "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
- Benjamin Franklin
"Why did bush knock down the towers?"
- Jadakiss |
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psy^soldier
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
922
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 18:59
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im moving to new york |
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Pisces1979
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
206
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 19:11
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I would suggest moving to Jersey City, New Jersey. The rents are affordable, and you can smoke in bars and clubs, and you are only 10 minutes to New York City by PATH subway or car. Oh yes, and Jersey City has a lot of Psytrance people and Israelis living there.
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
- Benjamin Franklin
"Why did bush knock down the towers?"
- Jadakiss |
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BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 19:49
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come to West Coast USa or B.C. Canada!
totally underground (parties usually lose money) police have never heard or us or don't care. Nice people. Most everyone here is in it for the love of music/dance/experience and NOTHING ELSE!
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psy^soldier
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
922
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 19:53
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hehe i was joking but it seems like the psytrance secne in the us is very how i can say it inocent
i mean its not a style like in israel its cool to hear trance |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Jul 8, 2005 23:49
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@Paradine
OK - This is not typical for me - But I can no longer say that I in any way disagree with you.
About the global vs national scene - I noticed that once I posted my answer, that I was really only focusing on what I see here in Denmark.
I have no clue what its like around the globe... I see festivals pop up everywhere - but also labels and artists..
Its very hard to say if that is due to a bigger scene, or just different things getting more available. (easier to release stuff, easier to create music etc).
People become older, and want more for themselves... or want to create more. So many factors we dont know, its hard to calculate.
Commercialism - Yes, we can have a look at that - and yes, I think its on the rise. I dont think MONEY is in the mind of every person producing full on or any music style in particular.
Im sure there are plenty Dark Twisted Psytrance artists who dream of lots of money and attention also....
Things being non commercial as such, is not that big a thing for me - Its important though, that ressources earned on the scene, stay in the scene - So it can evolve.
Its hard to create something special, if you lack the ressources to do so.
Money shouldnt set limits, it should open doors.
I also very much understand the group of people you call "normal" - However, Im sure if you would bring a lot of those "normal" people to a psy party, and explain to them what its about some of them would change and fit in... Of course, lots wouldnt... But thats the way it is with every subculture.
Everybody has their own "thing", something that sets them apart - Some more than others. Im sure there are people not listening to psytrance who are very much less normal than we are
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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paradine
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
17
Posted : Jul 12, 2005 09:23
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Quote Krell:
Things being non commercial as such, is not that big a thing for me - Its important though, that ressources earned on the scene, stay in the scene - So it can evolve.
Its hard to create something special, if you lack the ressources to do so.
Money shouldnt set limits, it should open doors.
Hear hear! More $ = better equipment and thats all good. But I think every $ is a bonus. I certainly still play for free. But if an organiser is making money the artists should be paid a fair amount. Fair being the key word. |
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