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Triplets to Straight Time "Morph"
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Ampersand
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
92
Posted : Oct 27, 2014 23:02:55
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Hey guys, hope you're all doing well.
Lately I have been focused on trying to nail down a typical Simon Posford trick which is the triplets to straight time "morphing" trick. Basically, it should sound like the rhythm goes seamlessly from triplets to straight time or vice versa. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to cleanly pull this off?
I tried crossfading 2 clips, but it gets messy in the middle when the bass notes are sort of overlapping and they are hitting close to each other so there are actually more beats than needed. So I decided I would move each MIDI note by hand, but that was a huge pain in the ass and not a very exact science. It sounds better than crossfading, but it's a little messy too.
Does anybody know specifically what Simon does to achieve this? Or anybody have any ideas?
Check it out here in the beginning of Fluoro Neuro Sponge, or the beginning of Horrorgram. Both linked below.
Fluoro Neuro Sponge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8KSSDEYnyo
Check out 1:00 to 1:35.
Horrorgram:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quApkkNG6_g
1:00 to 1:45.
Let me know if you have ideas, it would be much appreciated!
Cheers,
Amp. |
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PRO-Gram
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
110
Posted : Oct 27, 2014 23:19
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Welli checked fluoro sponge and i I wouldnt say it is seemless well not by today's standards but maybe he records swing automation and then filters in gradually the off beat bassline.
 https://soundcloud.com/pro-gram-0 |
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Ampersand
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
92
Posted : Oct 28, 2014 15:15
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Hey thanks for the reply. I see what you mean about it not being seamless, but I guess what I meant was that nothing sounds out of place. To me anyway.
So I tried your swing idea. I use Ableton so I used the groove pool, which seemed to work well. It's still missing something, which I think is more about the MIDI notes actually changing at some part within Simon's transition. That part will just need some messing with once I get the main triplets to straight time thing down.
My issue is, I guess, an issue with Ableton though. Apparently you can't automate the groove parameters in Ableton which is a huge sorespot for me! I really would have expected that you could, but I don't think it's possible. Are there any DAWs you would recommend that could do that?
I think you may be right that it's accomplished that way. I didn't know if there was that kind of technology around in 1995 or not, but it sounds pretty close to right when I'm testing it out.
Thanks! |
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snowdogg
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
482
Posted : Oct 28, 2014 16:53
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cool trick, but it was 1995 so you could assume that it was mixed on a desk. hardly any fancy digital automation..
The best way i can think of is to keep the kick static, and morph the bass and lead around it. |
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Ampersand
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
92
Posted : Oct 28, 2014 17:27
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Yeah, I was thinking that there is probably a pretty simple answer here. I guess you're saying, snowdogg, that it's just a matter of moving MIDI notes by hand? The kick will definitely always be static. But what I am having difficulty accomplishing is morphing everything around it.
In Ableton I tried the groove pool and it worked well to take the Quantize amount on a 8T groove from 100% down to 0%, except I'm not understanding how that's possible to automate. Apparently, in Ableton, all you can automate is the global groove parameter, which seems to change absolutely nothing when I move it back and forth.
At least when my settings in the groove pool is everything at 0% except the Quantize parameter which needs to sit at 100% for the triplets groove. Then as the change occurs it would go from 100-0%, but like I'm saying, I can't understand how to automate that.
Maybe a failing on Ableton's part? I'm not sure. There must be a workaround… |
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The Shanti Beat
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
52
Posted : Oct 28, 2014 18:27
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I thought about a method that might work in ableton just a few days ago, but i haven't tried it yet :
try to split your one big clip into a lot of fragments (a quarter of a bar maybe ?) and apply different grooves on them.
would be like :
1 = 0% groove
2 = 5% groove
etc... |
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Ampersand
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
92
Posted : Oct 28, 2014 18:47
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Quote:
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On 2014-10-28 18:27, The Shanti Beat wrote:
I thought about a method that might work in ableton just a few days ago, but i haven't tried it yet :
try to split your one big clip into a lot of fragments (a quarter of a bar maybe ?) and apply different grooves on them.
would be like :
1 = 0% groove
2 = 5% groove
etc...
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I was thinking about this too, and I will experiment with this soon since I haven't tried yet. But part of me is wondering if it will be too "blocky" sounding. As opposed to just smooth and slick. I'll see though. I shall report back! Let me know what you find out too, please! |
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snowdogg
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
482
Posted : Oct 29, 2014 02:36
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Ampersand - My first thought would be if you can't automate the groovepool setting, can you manually adjust it while recording a take?
For me i didint really use the groovepool much in ableton, but i guess for proggy stuff it could be useful.
I had another listen to Fluoro and at 1.24 you hear the last two bars of the 3/4 bass (the bass progression goes up).
Then just before the first beat of the next bar i heard a slight glitch, i'm guessing this is where the faders were quickly flipped onto a new audio track.
If i was going to try it id have two bass channels. play the 3/4 channel and as it reaches the next section automate the track delay (in ms) to make it wobble out of time like heard in FluroNS, then cut to the 4/4 channel.
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E-KL!PSE
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
66
Posted : Oct 29, 2014 12:10
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routingwithin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
204
Posted : Oct 29, 2014 14:47
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Never really tried it, what about crossfade + EQ automation- so that as the bass frequencies is filtered out the other takes over. Still it could interfere a bit with the synchronicity.
If I would have to do it, ill create a build up, ending with a boom- and from the deep, the triplet comes in with a highpass filter.
" We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. " |
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E-KL!PSE
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
66
Posted : Oct 30, 2014 08:50
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routingwithin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
204
Posted : Oct 30, 2014 09:22
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doesn't "1/8T" on the arp give you triplets ?
" We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. " |
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E-KL!PSE
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
66
Posted : Oct 30, 2014 09:30
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PRO-Gram
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
110
Posted : Oct 30, 2014 10:48
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Ampersand
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
92
Posted : Oct 30, 2014 15:18
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Hey guys, so far this has worked the best for me actually. It's pretty smooth, I think it works well. I just made 8 bars of transition and divided it into 16 parts, then went from 100-0% on Quantize for each groove. I had to make 16 grooves and make them each 6.25% apart. So like 100 - 6.25 etc. Pretty happy with the outcome, thanks for the suggestion!
Quote:
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On 2014-10-28 18:27, The Shanti Beat wrote:
I thought about a method that might work in ableton just a few days ago, but i haven't tried it yet :
try to split your one big clip into a lot of fragments (a quarter of a bar maybe ?) and apply different grooves on them.
would be like :
1 = 0% groove
2 = 5% groove
etc...
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