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The Mother Of All Studio Monitor Threads
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
120
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1703
Posted : Nov 10, 2010 11:08
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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8087
Posted : Nov 10, 2010 19:13
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the sub went back to the store today cause it have a little problem on the back ,no luck that sux... i calibrated it with test tone and had to move all my set up more in the center of the room (1/3 i would say)but it seems it was perfect to me (the sub must be on the ground to get good tonal balance it was designed like this so it s not that hard to integrated it as long as their is no walls close to it the response was almost flat )
i haven t done any measurment yet as i m moving room soon... but after listening music and mixing a bit with the sub it s a very good reference.it change the way you mix the mids too... t s like getting the balance of lsitening loud on a clubs or sound sytem but at low volume , it s good to turn it off soemtimes too.. or just use the sub with the main turned off to tweak the low.
for the guys like me that find the sound of their monitors a bit steril , middle forward ...a sub can be a big plus, so you get the the big lowend (clear , the sub output 35 hz without any problems) wihtout compromising the good mids ,but it need carreful placement and calbraiting or it can be a total disaster.
one more crossover was not a problem from my test , it was very transparent.
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
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3207
Posted : Nov 11, 2010 22:31
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today I got an intense check between klein&hummel,pmc series and dynaudio and atc in perfect conditions.
All this fuss in this forum about dynaudio being that great boxes is heavy to me.They are certainly not proffesional,they are expensive and nice maybe.
To me what I really am sure never ever dynaudio cause they colouring incredilby much.Not worth the money IMO.
I produce often on dynaudio during my studies and they always were kicking ass but since today when comparing to other good boxes I can only say dynauidio is overrated to the max.
Brutaly colouring sound.
Klein and Hummel are really good but I must say PMC is highest class I ever heard.Such a big difference to Klein&Hummal..incredible.
The model I mean from PMC is DB2S-A II Active. lil but giant.
..and yes normaly brutaly expensive but these are tools for life.
We tested intensively 2 houres, with orchestral material and some giant voices so we had a whole spectrum it was gigantic differences when switching through the above mentioned the brands.
Best is comparing than reading .Best is before buying a good box to send them to your home to check for a week.This is the best way to have an onw conviced opinion.
Never trust a comment on this issue! (mine too,this is just my personal opinion)
Still PMC rocks.It is highest class.Expensive but genius.Adams also IMO is terribly overrated.Each to his own however.
Anyone tested them seriously any of PMC? Curious what you say about this brand.I'd recommend them as monitors for life.ATL technology is unique,exceptional low frequency extension,neutral yet dynamic performance,all boxes are matched and being protocoled when you buy one more you get them exactly the same matched as those you first bought..Highest SPL's without distortion or compression!
Burner
 https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Nov 11, 2010 23:57
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between PMC and klein & hummel i choose the hummel...
i never liked the pmc sound... maybe they dont fit with the trance sound nicely but i always found the hummels like dynaudios to be better for dance music mixing.
adams are great but lack the bass response for proper mixing of kicks and bass dance music needs.
for me in the 1000-2000euro range dynaudio and focal are one way.
higher that scale klein & hummel 0 300 is the pair for me... just need the cash to get them!
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 03:20
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TimeTraveller thanks to share you thought, and i agree reading is usless for monitors and gears ... it s all about taste.i think Trip own the pmc , or he had them in the past.
you compare some monitors that are not in the same price range so i m not surprised,and i find the dynaudio overpriced (mk1 almost 2000 euros)what do you except vs 3 of the best brand of monitors. even in their price range i dont think the dyns are the best buy (for my taste).
about the kh i remember some papers on them and it s was explained they made some compromise in the design, it have some flaws .(they still might sound great but according to that paper they could sound better )
adams i think are designed to go with a sub, a monitor with less bass usually have better mids from my experience .i think adam with sub will have better mids and low than dynaudio. focal is like a mix of adam and dynaudio a bit best of both worlds to me but they need a sub too imo.. i don t have th sub anymore and i was wondering how i could mix wihtout it for years . my p22 are 8 inches woofer +3/-3 till 38 hz but still need a sub so i wonder how the guys with a7 can judge kick and bass, to me these speakers are designed to go with a sub it make no doubt now that i tried one.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 03:54
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Timetraveller but you have to try to mix on them,listening is just half of the storie ,i ll go as far as telling than listening monitors in a other room than yours and wihtout mixing on them is a bit like reading on the net.
Maybe the dyns in your room will get you the best mix in the less time, who know, look at ns 10 they are still used in so many studios and sound like crap.
also you have to listen bass heavy music with no dynamic and lot of fast transients to get a other idea ,if you do mostly electronic music. |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 09:39
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K+H 0300 are great monitors, i used to own them before i upgraded to Barefoots. However to get the best out of them you really need the 0800 sub. The limiter kicks in very early, especially on bass heavy music, so the sub helps with this issue.
They are extremely accurate, but can also be a little uninspiring to work on. I found i had to push them a little in order to get a feel of the music, with the barefoots i can easily work on low levels.
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
120
Posts :
1703
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 11:45
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with this price-area (~2000€) there is one thing always comes to my mind.
lets say the speakers we are talking about are 2-3 +/- db. if you do meassurements in a untreated medium/small room, i think you will have peaks/valleys about 10 times bigger then 2 db. doesnt this mean that spending money for treatment is much more essential? i want to understand the importance of each parameter (speaker & room treatment) in correlation with the factor MONEY. how much does it cost to tune a room until +/- 2db (i gues its nearly impossible) how much does it cost to tune a room until +/- 10db (1000€ maybe ?)so, if i have 2000€ and a small/midium room, how much should i spend for monitors and how much for room treatment?
i guess this is a very important thing for me and noobs to understand. if i see videos on youtube, guys mixing with expensive monitors and no room treatment at all, i just CANT BELEVE how stupit this is.
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
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3207
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 13:34
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Hi Pom,yes you are right the dynaudio is not in the same price range.
However ,they were pretty soon out of any question to me.
I was kinda the only one in this room in a room having an obvious sympathy for K&H,and always quite critical,but atleast after a time of recreation the impression was like I have the PMC in my mind as heavan for ears.
I haven't had the possibility to mix on them.For now I'm looking for a new location and good rooms to live,and my budget is limited,so I just can't afford for now.
I hope later or asap I find a way for them though.
Also ,we haven't heard any purely electronic kinda music,and I also have thoughts in mind by all this suprises,that maybe the dynaudio is just working really good for trance but at least for music recorded with good mics they are pretty colouring for sure.
However,it is 3.world in my ears when heaving some Hummels or PMC besides it.
..we heard stuff like orchestral/soundtrack music,russian accapella voices ..heartmusic to thefullest,some good drummers and some good popular music (santana and co).
For me it would be enough to have just the orchestral section to have an opinion.
..ah at first a friend of mine has a check on depeche mode,so this was purely electronic.And for me it was as intense as the orchestral tracks.It was a incredible stereo image and clearity.Well way more.
@ Orange ,it is really suprising to me.Comparing the K&H with PMC is one liga,but with dynaudio seems strange to me,maybe because of psytrance music only.
@Get-a-Fix -barefoots looking absolutely decent another highclass brand I only have read trhough your posts about.Interesting to read.I saw your room somewhere and your equipment.Decent.
@Orgytime ,you are absolutely right as we all know,room accoustics,treatment,absorbers - good room accoustic or good measurings even temperature,are way more important to have a worthy opinion on sound btw your room looking great.
I will do measurings and build my treatment myself aswell,just need to find first new flat 
Cost for tuning a room are a pain in the arse to make it short,for your room probably atleast 1000E even(only measurings)..it depends on who does it of course.
Personaly both k&h and pmc are to me highest liga,however I haven't heard a lot of others so far and actually despise of my sympathy for K&H (they were the first that have really thrown my ears into other dimensions) PMC is almost a liga above to my personal liking.
Especialy the bass is more defined ,I believe because of ATL.
However I have just impressions ,an analysis would not making any sense to me without having them for atleast a few days alone mixing and listening.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Khaos Sektor
Khaos Sektor
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
1004
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 14:44
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Anyone have any experience with FOCAL CMS 40 ?
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 14:50
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i have the 65 and i think the 40 will be too small,even the 65 sound a bit compressed.on their own they lack a bit of bass for electronic music but with the sub it s great set up imo, way more dynamic , depth.maybe the 40 dont share the same sound dunno..you have to try them with the sub if you can.
TimeTraveller also the d/a make a lot of difference with good monitors like this,something like rme would be a shame to use with these monitors and really be the weak thing in the chain,you need good d/a you will hear nice improvment if you dont have one already. it get expensive !
check this brand too http://www.psiaudio.com/ |
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Khaos Sektor
Khaos Sektor
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
1004
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 15:13
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ok thank you for the advice i will buy Adam7AX or Dynaudio Bm5 i will check more infos about this monitors |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 15:34
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Quote:
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On 2010-11-12 11:45, orgytime wrote:
with this price-area (~2000€) there is one thing always comes to my mind.
lets say the speakers we are talking about are 2-3 +/- db. if you do meassurements in a untreated medium/small room, i think you will have peaks/valleys about 10 times bigger then 2 db. doesnt this mean that spending money for treatment is much more essential? i want to understand the importance of each parameter (speaker & room treatment) in correlation with the factor MONEY. how much does it cost to tune a room until +/- 2db (i gues its nearly impossible) how much does it cost to tune a room until +/- 10db (1000€ maybe ?)so, if i have 2000€ and a small/midium room, how much should i spend for monitors and how much for room treatment?
i guess this is a very important thing for me and noobs to understand. if i see videos on youtube, guys mixing with expensive monitors and no room treatment at all, i just CANT BELEVE how stupit this is.
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it s how you get used to the room and monitors too , i was reading on the net the distance between you and your monitors x3 should be at least the distance from the monitors to a wall, i m sure just with that rule you get a flatter response if you place the monitors and listening place carrefully. bump and null in the low end can be a bit corrected with palcement too , it can make more difference than lot of acoustic treatment down there.
somethign else to keep in mind, no one listen music in a flat or dead room , you will be the only one to hear the music like that and can be surprised how it will translate . if you mix in room that have problems it may translate better in other rooms with problems (not sure but from my experience it can happen) |
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
120
Posts :
1703
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 15:44
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 16:03
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you just got them i think you need more time with them, lot of psytrance and electronic music is made with no or very little room treatment but i think the room matter a lot yes... with the yahama you may have to update again later, now with the focal you can just make more pannel when you have a bit of money, imo it s not a bad choice you made . |
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