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The Mother of all Mixing Techniques Thread
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master bud
Started Topics :
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Posts :
144
Posted : May 20, 2008 15:55
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Very useful thread! But some things are not quite clear enough...
Ok. So I bounce all the single tracks at 44.1kHz/32 bit with 0dB loudness. 32 bit means a huge resolution and with 0 dB each, I rather lower the individual volumes than boosting them at the mixdown phase.
So basically we bounce at max loudness, then mixdown at a lower volume just to master it up again to 0 dB?
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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60
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3709
Posted : May 20, 2008 17:08
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master bud - how are you reasoning now?
We mix down at highest possible volume, (sometimes you lose volume while mixing down cause of panning law? correct me if im wrong)
if you dont mixdown at highest volume possible you have to gain it afterwards, or normalize, you see when normalizing a track that already has a peak at -0db you wont gain it at all, but if the track has a peak at say -5db you will gain it 5db, so this is why normalizing sometimes dont have any effect at all, and not even gaining, you will have to compress the sound, reducing the peaks which makes you able to gain it more.
but really i didnt understand what you mean? why would you rather lower the volume when you are going to mixdown? can you be more specific with what you mean...
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master bud
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
144
Posted : May 20, 2008 17:58
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Sorry if I was misunderstable. Let me do it again:
1. You are finished with your composition. You bounce all the separate tracks at 44.1kHz/32bit, all faders sit at 0dB, right?
2. You import all the tracks into a new project. You adjust all levels relative to each other with faders/compression/whatever and do other things like placing the instruments in stereo space etc. If I'm not wrong that's what we call mixdown.
3. You give your mixdown to the mastering engineer who make some additional enhancements and adjust the final volume.
My confusion is at step 2. Here on isra, among the topics, there were two examples of some professional tracks before and after mastering. The 'before mastering' versions are basically mixdowns, correct me If I'm wrong. The volume levels of these mixdowns were relatively low (-7/-10 dB). If all your single instruments has been bounced at 0 dB then you need to lower the volumes whilst mixing to get that relatively low volume, right?
So these pro guys lower the bounced volumes first just to get a a not-so-loud mixdown which will be gained to 0 dB again in the mastering step?
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : May 20, 2008 21:01
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Now i'm confused
The normalize function is not related to the actual mixdown and is not an alternative to mastering.
I don't recall anyone saying that ALL the tracks on a project should be bounced and then reimported to a new project for mixdown. This doesn't make sense, unless the track is going to a mixing engineer.
An individual track gets bounced when there's a certain need for it. And depending on the volume on it's fader, adding gain or normalizing it would be needed. Otherwise not. And there's no need to bounce at 32bits if there's no processing to it that needs to get bounced with it.
Generally when mixing down the final output level of the bounced mix should be around from -10db to -6db max. This is necessary for the mastering process, where the mastering engineer will add the remaining dbs to reach the 0db(-0.1db or less)
Normalizing the final mixdown is NOT mastering.
I hope it's bit clearer now.
 A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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5
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424
Posted : May 20, 2008 21:47
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Quote:
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On 2008-05-20 11:01, dendy(ray_subject) wrote:
normalizing is good.. because when you put your music to 16bit/44khz (cd quality), and you have for example the highest peak at -5db (because it's not normalised), then effective bitrate of you track will less than 16bit.. plus 16bit sampling is not linear, so at upper levels of gain (near 0dB) are density of quantisation higher than on lower.. in onther words, not-normalised track in quiet parts (for example parts with only some pads, fx, without beat and bassline), is then running effectively for example only at 10bits ..
that's the one of main reason why is important normalize finalised track to 0db (or better to -0.3dB based on redbook standard) - to use maximum of bitrate bandwich of CD quality ...
nomalising is not important only during you are running on 24bit (or 32bit).. but when we going down to 16bit, normalising is VERY important thing... so best is make all processing/mastering at 24/32bit, then normalise it to max, then resample it to 16bit ...
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Recommended reading - Mastering Audio by Bob Katz
Seriously I would have to write an essay to explain it too you.
work at 24bit and aim for -10dBfs for your individual tracks. Final mix keep 24bit and don't peak above -5dBfs. Let the mastering engineer deal with the rest.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
Posts :
8087
Posted : May 21, 2008 11:24
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yes sure to loose some bit is not a issu when working at 24/32 bit |
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HaKa
HaKa
Started Topics :
106
Posts :
269
Posted : May 28, 2008 17:28
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : May 28, 2008 22:33
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i never mixdown while composing, i'm 100% MIDI guy:-) all i care about is just no cipping on master channel.
When you compose and mix your track, take care of the relative balance between sounds, not about the common loudness level. It's not the problem to raise the loudness when your track is finished.
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : May 29, 2008 04:57
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Medea - sometimes i have to mixdown while composing if im using lots of FX or demanding Vsti´s
anyway we all do it our own way! As long as we are happy about the results and the way of working 
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gutter
Inactive User
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54
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3018
Posted : Dec 29, 2008 12:31
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it may sound strange but a nice advise/method i read in Mixing with your mind about delays.
The author (Mike Stavrou) says that if you cannot decide between two delays or more for a sound in the mix ,, listen to those delays separate and hold a big heavy book and wave it around with the music
Then choose the delay which made the book feel lighter (& not heavier) when you moved it with that delay sound (dont remember though if to listen separately or in the hole mix).. this way youll choose a delay based on the feeling of the body and probably it will fit much better on the mix and breathe more
(i told you it will sound strange but works )..
And another one about mixing which i find very very useful and teaching ,, is when you move volume faders , do not focus on the sound you raise/low but always focus on the other sounds in the mix and how they correspond / balance with the sound you work
For example when you raise the volume on an open hi-hat focus on the closed hi-hat ,or on the lead playing ,, when you touching the bass track focus on the kick cause its a circle , the ear makes a better balanced mix when listening to other elements than the one working ..
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Feb 8, 2009 05:56
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so bros ... i got one for u
Kb at - 6db
hi hats at abt - 10 db
where do u mix all ur other sounds ? |
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 8, 2009 06:00
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db what? and at the channels or the master? |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
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Posted : Feb 8, 2009 06:40
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well, Lets add to that , we know that master shudnt clip.
So , What Levels do u mix ur other sounds , if u keep ur Kb at - 6db at their individual channels. |
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posts :
751
Posted : Feb 8, 2009 06:54
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That is for your ears to decide. I would be surprised if you had any problems with clipping the other sound if you set our kick where you are. You need to know your monitors well and to have listened to other songs through them, not just Psy. I have never worried about the levels on the meters for the other sounds. Leads will be in a range where our ear are more sensitive so they won't necessarily be as high up as the kick and bass. You really will have to use your ears for this. Also a good trick is to go out of your listening room and hear how the mix balance sounds there (Door open). I always do this. I find it really helps me with hats/lead/kick&bass balance. |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
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2562
Posted : Feb 8, 2009 07:41
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hmmm, interesting view point. That brings us back to the production right ? in a way if u can hear it the way u want to , its the right mix.
Cool adios.
I was just worried abt some stuff . Is ok now .
u can check how deep do i bleep
www.myspace.com/illegalradioactivity |
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