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stop calling psy dark
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 15, 2008 22:16
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Wanna argue??
Fine. Do it.
But show some respect. All of you. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 15, 2008 22:21
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On 2008-12-15 22:03, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
KAli is a celibate Goddess..you must be getting mixed up with Shakti here. |
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No I don't.
Unless you now claim that Dakshina Kalika is a name of Shakti and not kali.
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On 2008-12-15 22:03, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
YOu are being very juvenile and taking everything Literaly..but this is not the case with INdian religion. YOu cannot be so narrow minded...it's all based on a higher aspect than what you see.
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Oh, ghee...I thought it was all literal and I'm actually arguing that everyone is afraid that Kali will appear in person and behead them and then have sex with their corpses.
Seriously though...if someone here needs to not take everything literally it's not me.
But I did say that the loss of the ego does scare most people, and that Kali represents something people fear.
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Fria Tantrumm
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Posted : Dec 15, 2008 22:48
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Quote:
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On 2008-12-15 22:21, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2008-12-15 22:03, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
KAli is a celibate Goddess..you must be getting mixed up with Shakti here. |
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No I don't.
Unless you now claim that Dakshina Kalika is a name of Shakti and not kali.
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On 2008-12-15 22:03, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
YOu are being very juvenile and taking everything Literaly..but this is not the case with INdian religion. YOu cannot be so narrow minded...it's all based on a higher aspect than what you see.
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Oh, ghee...I thought it was all literal and I'm actually arguing that everyone is afraid that Kali will appear in person and behead them and then have sex with their corpses.
Seriously though...if someone here needs to not take everything literally it's not me.
But I did say that the loss of the ego does scare most people, and that Kali represents something people fear.
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Yup, you are misinformed...Dakshineswar Kali is not copulating with anyone. As I said she is a celibate Goddess.
And Ramakrishna was the priest at this temple...as I have mentioned before..and your enitre train of thought is completely false and ridiculous...She is standing on Shiva, not having sex with him.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 00:36
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Fria Tantrumm
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 00:57
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V3NOM
Inactive User
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2234
Posted : Dec 16, 2008 01:20
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please stop the religious debate. It is only upsetting you to and not serving the scene. This thread should be locked and left alone.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 01:21
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On 2008-12-16 00:57, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
The photo you've linked to is a Tantric statue of Shiva Shakti
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That's not what it's referenced as when I have seen it mentioned in tantric literature...and I would have to agree with the scholars on this one instead of you just by looking at the tongue.
And I guess this is Shakti as well?
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6247/thegoddesskaliseatedinisw1.jpg
And to quote from Niruttaratantra about the situation that these images depict:
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Two streams of blood trickle from her mouth. Around her are terrifying jackals which roar in the four directions. Her girdle is made of hands of corpses and she laughs. She is naked, with dishevelled hair, and bears a crescent moon as her diadem. She is seated on the corpse form of Mahadeva, where she has intercourse with Mahakala in the viparita position. Her eyes roll with liquor, her smiling face is like a lotus and she is very terrifying Maharaudri who gives all bliss.
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(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
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Fria Tantrumm
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 01:39
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If you are going to quote the Tantras .understand that it is not Kali you talk of but Shakti. Tantra is based on Shiva Shakti, and Shakti embodies all the 10 Mahavidyas (10 goddesses). You really are mixing two very different things up in a very bad manner.
And your little linked paintings are Tantrik works in nature...you base your solidity on small significance like they both have tongues sticking out. That's why it's a piss off when Westerners try to grasp these concepts and FAIL. Cause then we are faced with this sort of reasoning. Cut and Dry and literal.
Ok I stop now sergantpepper. You are right, this is tedious.
We can continue this in PM Spindrift
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 01:49
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On 2008-12-16 01:39, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
That's why it's a piss off when Westerners try to grasp these concepts and FAIL.
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Yeah, yeah...sure westerners cannot grasp bla, bla, bla.
At least I can read and when it says in Niruttaratantra that it is Kali and I do notice when the mother is depicted with the tongue out and with "a girdle made of hands of corpses" and know that in that form the is commonly referred to as Kali.
But obviously the tantras is wrong on tantra and you are right.
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Fria Tantrumm
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 01:58
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Quote:
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On 2008-12-16 01:49, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2008-12-16 01:39, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
That's why it's a piss off when Westerners try to grasp these concepts and FAIL.
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Yeah, yeah...sure westerners cannot grasp bla, bla, bla.
At least I can read and when it says in Niruttaratantra that it is Kali and I do notice when the mother is depicted with the tongue out and with "a girdle made of hands of corpses" and know that in that form the is commonly referred to as Kali.
But obviously the tantras is wrong on tantra and you are right.
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COnce again I will say, slowly...Kali in Tantra is different from Kali as worshipped in a temple. A Tantrik Kali is not worshipped or displayed in temples in India...the statues are only for the purpose of Tantrik endeavours and show all goddesses (the 10 mahavidyas, all the same but in different forms) performing union as a means of control. This is Tantra, different from Kali that the everyday man worships. They are 2 different paths almost, a whole different science. Tantra is a science, almost occult...you cannot insist Kali based upon Tantra cause in Tantra she is termed Shakti. A "Kali" in any sexual position is called SHAKTI.
Also you are only talking of the left hand path of Tantra involving sex...the right hand path being the absolute opposite, minus sex, no sexual imagery, no goddesses on corpses copulating. You are gunning for the usual sensational small piece. **************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 02:15
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Nice edit Fria.
You realised that Niruttara tantra comes from the Kula-tradition and is not Tibetan as you claimed and that the statue and image is both from India?
Well...now it's some rant about how in some way your own tantric scriptures is wrong in calling her Kali but you know the truth.
Anyhow it's pointless discussing with someone who just can't admit they are wrong no matter with how clear evidence to the contrary you present.
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Fria Tantrumm
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 02:22
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In Kula...they worship Shakti as Mahakali:
MahaKali is considered the foremost aspect of the Divine Goddess: pure energy, pure spirit. She is worshipped in any of Her 10 aspects: Kali, Tara, Shodasi, Bhuvaneshvari, Bhairavi, Chinnamasta, Dhumavati, Bagala, Matangi and Kamala.
You are once again using a different concept.
It is not Kali, but Shakti as Mahakali who consists of 10 diferent Tantrik Goddesses Spindrift..It's you who need to let up. From Hinduism you've moved to Tantra and sex, and only one bit of it, when there is a whole following against this. So it's very easy to manipulate and twist things around to suit a "sexual aspect"... but this is Tantra, a completely different approach. You probably should have had some talk with the Kali baba who growled and grunted at you rather than openly entertain you. He would have explained a whole world more. But probably saw that it was pointless. Don't be confused, nothing is the same..just as Buddhism is separate from the Tibetan aspect of Tantra.
Tantra and Hinduism are two different things. Tibetan Tantra using Tibetan deities, Jain Tantra using Jain ones, and HIndu Tantra using HINDU DEITIES TO EXPLAIN A SCIENCE that is separate from the religion.
There is also the right hand path, nore popular that denies the sexual aspect completely. SO now you mix science with religion and more confusion..Keep it up 
Leaving the building now..tired of this debate that moved from music to religion to science to occult. Good night to all.
"Among all the gods, Kali is the only one who didn't marry. Eternal virgin . . . eternally celibate! Whom should Kali marry? Who can marry Her? Shouldn't there be two people in order to marry? Where is that second person? How could Kali's marriage happen? Kali is neither man nor woman. She is both. She is Pure Consciousness as well as Primordial Nature. She fills both outside and inside. Kali is the compassionate Mother of the devotee who longs to see Her as well as the fierce Bhadrakali who kills the ego of the egotistical. Kali is everything."
http://www.pathofthemother.com/excerpts10.html
From an INDIAN website as opposed to all the dubious ones we've been exposed to.
Here's a link to an ongoing debate on Kali..you might find it interesting Spindrift..we can continue this over there instead :
http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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33
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 02:33
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Quote:
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On 2008-12-16 02:22, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
In Kula...they worship Shakti as Mahakali:
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I know that very well. Kali is one aspect of the mother...and Shiva-Shakti is one as well...and Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva is one in Trimurti.
Now you are claiming that I'm wrong in stating that Kali had intercourse with Shivas corpse.
I have sourced my claims with depictions and references to tantric scriptures.
And if I'm getting this right you are now claiming that Kali is just one aspect of Shakti, hence it's not Kali described in the tantras but Shakti? And that despite the fact that the scriptures specifically mention her by the name of Kali?
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
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Fria Tantrumm
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 02:37
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Yes you are wrong..Tantrik Kali different from Hindu Kali, not a very good use of terminology. But it is true...
In Tantra Kali is an aspect of Shakti..Tantra does not involve "Durga" a form of Kali in the HIndu religion..it does not involve "Amba" another form of Kali in the Hindu religion...Tantra is separate from What we were talking about. And again you only speak of the left hand path and show me imagery from that which as I said, is usually not accepted by most Indians. They stick to the right hand path. Ramakrishna himself did not follow the left hand path, thus Dakshineshwar Kali not being shown in any sexual positions as she is supposed to be the eternal virgine BRO.
Lets continue the debate here
http://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/kali-hindu-goddess-of-violence-where-is-the-line-drawn-between-a-demon-and-a-god/
Encountering KALI in the margins, at the center and in the West
By Rachel Fell McDermott, Jeffrey John Kripal Nice book explaining the origins of the Goddess. Her lure to Westerners, the interpretations and many Misinterpretations of the goddess. You might find it Interesting and find alot of your views are the usual faulty ones.
http://books.google.com/books?id=bMUJyU_C-LkC&pg=PA284&lpg=PA284&dq=MA+Kali+the+virgin&source=web&ots=ZR8i293HyP&sig=3nzSMEGy55cYljUI2hnrueEGFrc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPT1,M1
On the above link you can read it for free
Written by western scholars who came in search and realized their misconceptions.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Penelope Pitstop
Inactive User
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Posted : Dec 16, 2008 02:47
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Since NEITHER Fria or Spindrift are Hindu's - I FAIL to see what either of you are shouting about as westerners with your 'view' on who/what is KALIDAS
GTFO!
your petty arguments make you look like fucking idiots - so stop it - or is that kinda attitude what made you make labels to sell stuff - cos if you are so stupid, you just shot both ur labels in the foot with ur petty hippy jealousy! |
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