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stop calling psy dark
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:07
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On 2008-12-15 15:49, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
For an indian it's very easy to see Kali, while she might come across as dark or terrifying to you, there is nothing dark or terrifying about her to us...because she is not meant for that, because we never looked at her like that, because we know, we have a sense of what she is meant to depict..we feel the mood in the temples, at the festivals and we understand the concepts.
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Again you are making assumptions based on my race. You have no clue how I perceive Kali.
And obviously you don't even know how many fellow Indians view her either.
There are certainly Hindus which fear Kali, just as there are many that see her as a liberating force. But to say that she is not terrifying is a bit of an uncommon view.
Sure in many parts of India she is worshipped a lot and seen as something positive, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing terrifying about her.
Confronting your fears, especially the most basic one...fear of death, is something positive that can make you appreciate life even more.
I'm well aware of that Kali worship is far from some kind of dark death cult a´la Indiana Jones. But death, time and the void is scary concepts for all humans except maybe a few enlightened...and the point of worshipping Kali in my view is to confront those fears.
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
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368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:07
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All our Gods are sunny and bright and light...until a bunch of trancers from the west (ya call me a racist) come along and make them dark and douchey. Very insulting to say the least 
Death is not perceived a negative scary concept in India. It is perceived as a mode of liberation from the endless cycle of lives.
SO if you find it negative and scary and want to associate Kali with such, be ready to hear that this is false and untrue.
Kali is only terrifying to those who do no understand what she is meant to epitomise.
Thus you and Moki find her terrifying.
Cause you have ego and your ego is what is terrified...after all she (Kali) is the ego destroyer and one's ego is what finds Kali terrifying.
In India she is the Mother, who gives life and love...nothing terrifying in this.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:07
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Double post
delteeee
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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mk47
Inactive User
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118
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Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:13
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all of hinduism and its symbols , right down to an earring on a goddess for eg .. nothing is literal , u must understand that when this religion was conceptualized , it was done so keeping in mind the folk of that era (some thousands of years ago?) .. elaborate stories , all running with a sometimes not so obvious undercurrent of philosophical err .. stuff  .. im a bit out of my league here but iv in the past read up extensively on this and what fria says makes perfect sense , also .. kali .. literally means black (feminine gender) .. kala (male) ..lolz and kal .. time? so some confusion there .... anyway .. interesting discussion .. i wish i could contribute more in an educated way .. bottom line , its philosophical and esoteric .. u have to look deeper etc
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
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4444
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:19
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oops , correction .. yug means time i think .. ill bbl when im not so many beers down  .. bye
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:22
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Yug Means "an age".
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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gutter
Inactive User
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54
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3018
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:31
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come on , everywhere on the planet happened the same
from Mexico to India foreigners, searchers of "truth", god, inner self, emotional seekers etc etc ,,traveled all over
the fact that on the 70's this became a trend, caused many problems, cause everybody has a different approach to things above, and cause there are alot of assholes round the globe in every scene & situation..
this is going on for thirty-fourty years and more so..
i dont give a shit about indias gods nor i believe they exist somewhere in this universe except from our minds (same for every religion imho)
the most beautiful religion ive ever heard was the american indians who worshiped the sun, the trees, the water and the tasty rabbits and buffalos.. thats more native than pictures with 37 hands that look like elephants and wear golden shit on them.. this is the truth..its used only for govern minds and spread the fear
ah, and in your religion there is more racism than any religion in the world unfortunately dear Ms Tantrum with the castes and distinguish of people and such..
anyway youre invited to my country, its already shit now from every aspect, you cannot really make smthng worse , for some great ouzo & souvlaki
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
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1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:36
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On 2008-12-15 16:07, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Death is not perceived a negative scary concept in India. It is perceived as a mode of liberation from the endless cycle of lives.
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Certainly Indians are more relaxed with death than westerners, but I somehow doubt that you even as an Indian would not so much as twitch of fear if someone suddenly appeared pressing a loaded gun to your forehead.
To say that the concepts Kali symbolises is not something humans from all races have an inherent fear of is just folly.
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On 2008-12-15 16:07, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
SO if you find it negative and scary and want to associate Kali with such, be ready to hear that this is false and untrue.
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I just said that I see her as a positive force.
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On 2008-12-15 16:07, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Kali is only terrifying to those who do no understand what she is meant to epitomise.
Thus you and Moki find her terrifying.
Cause you have ego and your ego is what is terrified...after all she (Kali) is the ego destroyer and one's ego is what finds Kali terrifying. |
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Anyone with an ego has an inherent fear of the death of the ego. If I would guess if you have managed to release yourself completely from the ego or is in denial I would guess the latter.
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On 2008-12-15 16:07, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
In India she is the Mother, who gives life and love...nothing terrifying in this.
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That really depends on where in India you are. I have met many Indians who even see Kali as a negative force, and you are the first one I met that try to boil down the essence of what she symbolises to "the Mother, who gives life and love".
That's IMO missing some very important aspects of the symbolism.
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:39
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Mr. Gutterr
The caste system was not a product of religion but a product of MAN as stated in the "Laws of Manu" written by man and not spiritual in content.
All religion is now interpreted as mind control or whatever, I think it's a product of evolution...I'm with you on this.
Many religions besides Native Indians worshipped nature..the oldest and still existing one being Zoroastrianism.
I am already in your country Gutter I'll pass on the ouzo but am all set for some souvlaki action
@ Spindrift.... if you are really interested in reading up, I truly point you to Ramakrishana.
read on the 10 Mahavidyas too if you want some more insight. The terrifying aspect of Kali is not Kali herself but Kali depicted as Bhairavi..anyways..let's not fight anymore over something so pointless..you take from it what you want and if it gives you some amount of calm then that is great. Sorry if I came across as racist, it was not my intention, I am for freedom of speech and against any form of political correctness or sensitivity in speech.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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gutter
Inactive User
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3018
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:50
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hurray 
no prob.. youre more studied in religions, so u know better.. i only love sounds nowdays
this is really racist have to admit it ..
nice to hear you are in our crazy-land.. have a nice stay here (not all souvlakia are good-be selective or ask friends bout the "good" one )
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:56
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On 2008-12-15 15:30, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2008-12-15 15:20, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
YOu are harping on one sentence of mine and not reading nay of my answers.
Keep your racial sensitivity to yourself. Racism was a concept invented by the white man unfortunately so don;t even make me laugh. I'm not being racist, I'm calling everyone not of Indian origin a foreigner. If that racist to your, dude then you obviously learnt nothing from your time in India with the "Gurus" Don't harp on one sentence like you can't believe it. Get over it. Read the rest or piss off.
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Sorry, but I feel it's a very telling sentence and you have yet failed to clarify what makes a guru disqualified in your eyes by spending time with a foreigner other than racism.
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Seems to me there is at least the possibility that there is a great misunderstanding here, either wilful or unintentional. Would it be true to say that 'hardcore devotees' of any spiritual tradition would not go out of their way to spend lots of time with anyone outside the tradition, whether foreign or local?
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 17:05
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On 2008-12-15 16:56, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-12-15 15:30, Spindrift wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-12-15 15:20, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
YOu are harping on one sentence of mine and not reading nay of my answers.
Keep your racial sensitivity to yourself. Racism was a concept invented by the white man unfortunately so don;t even make me laugh. I'm not being racist, I'm calling everyone not of Indian origin a foreigner. If that racist to your, dude then you obviously learnt nothing from your time in India with the "Gurus" Don't harp on one sentence like you can't believe it. Get over it. Read the rest or piss off.
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Sorry, but I feel it's a very telling sentence and you have yet failed to clarify what makes a guru disqualified in your eyes by spending time with a foreigner other than racism.
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Seems to me there is at least the possibility that there is a great misunderstanding here, either wilful or unintentional. Would it be true to say that 'hardcore devotees' of any spiritual tradition would not go out of their way to spend lots of time with anyone outside the tradition, whether foreign or local?
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Exactly....usually tantriks keep o themselvss.. you don't find them hanging around the block....most civilians are scared of them and would not indulge in a conversation...In truth people never see the true adepts as they stay away from society, they usually live in secluded settings and are rude to intruders. But now many people on this forum claim to be hanging out with nagas and tantriks...It's just an obvious conclusion, and not a racist one, that these babas and tantriks probably cater to the fad, which is unfortunately promulgated by the many tourists in India. When I am in Sweden, I will be termed a foreigner, and if someone pointed that out I wouldn't get my panties in a twist and play the "race" card. Chill out man. There are numerous stories in the newspapers about Tantriks duping even the lay Indian person, who goes to them to have a curse revoked or a remedy for some illness etc etc, at the end of which they usually get robbed or engage in some un required sexual activity....so what makes you think you weren't duped??
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 17:18
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On 2008-12-15 16:56, Colin OOOD wrote:
Seems to me there is at least the possibility that there is a great misunderstanding here, either wilful or unintentional. Would it be true to say that 'hardcore devotees' of any spiritual tradition would not go out of their way to spend lots of time with anyone outside the tradition, whether foreign or local?
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I would say the opposite about most religions which does have the intention to convert others. But Hindus in general have no interest in converting people, but I wouldn't go as far as claiming that it would be wrong for a Hindu to share their views with anyone not born Indian.
And you are making the same mistake as Fria here in making assumptions about the character about this gurus based only on the fact that they would spend time with a foreigner.
I'm not sure what defines gurus that "go out of their way to spend lots of time with anyone outside the tradition".
After pages of assumptions I guess I should clarify that in my case it was a guru that have had no previous contact with foreigners living in a region where almost no-one have seen a foreigner before who then happen to be recommended by a librarian as a serious Tantrik.
And yes, I have met quacks as well...but living with locals in remote villages where there is no tourism you notice who is respected by the community as a powerful guru or not.
Or whatever maybe being a dumb Swede I still could not tell and fell in to the same easy traps as all westerners do since being born where I was means I have a worse sense of judgement of character than an Indian.
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 17:24
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On 2008-12-15 17:18, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2008-12-15 16:56, Colin OOOD wrote:
Seems to me there is at least the possibility that there is a great misunderstanding here, either willful or unintentional. Would it be true to say that 'hardcore devotees' of any spiritual tradition would not go out of their way to spend lots of time with anyone outside the tradition, whether foreign or local?
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I would say the opposite about most religions which does have the intention to convert others. But Hindus in general have no interest in converting people, but I wouldn't go as far as claiming that it would be wrong for a Hindu to share their views with anyone not born Indian.
And you are making the same mistake as Fria here in making assumptions about the character about this gurus based only on the fact that they would spend time with a foreigner.
I'm not sure what defines gurus that "go out of their way to spend lots of time with anyone outside the tradition".
After pages of assumptions I guess I should clarify that in my case it was a guru that have had no previous contact with foreigners living in a region where almost no-one have seen a foreigner before who then happen to be recommended by a librarian as a serious Tantrik.
And yes, I have met quacks as well...but living with locals in remote villages where there is no tourism you notice who is respected by the community as a power guru or not.
Or whatever maybe being a dumb Swede I still could not tell and fell in to the same easy traps as all westerners do since being born where I was means I have a worse sense of judgement of character than an Indian.
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hehehhehhe classic dupe...
A Tantrik would not advertise he is a Tantrik...usually these village tantriks are the duping ones, taking money for small blessings, curses etc etc..or probably they aren't relly tantriks, but just call themselves such
And if it was such a small village with no foreigners, how did the Tantrik communicate with you?? In english?? Maybe there was a serious ack in communication and you just misunderstood, or the "tantrik" didn't have a good grasp of english thus the reason for your ill founded notions?? If he did speak english, i bet he probably met a many Foreigner before you.
Since we are talking about Tantra...Ramakrishna was a Tantrik practioner. One of the most famous ones...who was possesed and obsessed with Kali. His visions of her were anything but dark, she did not even appear Black, but radiated light and was Golden. Read up on him SPindrift. he was the greatest that ever existed and had visions that led him to find a statue of Kali buried on the river banks...
One day, he was so impatient to see Mother Kali that he decided to end his life. Seizing a sword hanging on the wall, he was about to strike himself with it, when he is reported to have seen light issuing from the deity in waves. Ramakrishna describes his first vision of Kali as follows:
I had a marvelous vision of the Mother, and fell down unconscious....It was as if houses, doors, temples and everything else vanished altogether; as if there was nothing anywhere! And what I saw was an infinite shoreless sea of light; a sea that was consciousness. However, far and in whatever direction I looked, I saw shining waves, one after another, coming towards me.[30]
... What was happening in the outside world I did not know; but within me there was a steady flow of undiluted bliss, altogether new, and I felt the presence of the Divine Mother.
He was the priest at the Dakshineshwar temple..one the greatest Kali temples in India **************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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33
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1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 17:33
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On 2008-12-15 17:24, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
The same old crap prejudices....
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I'm loosing my patience with you.
I don't go into forums claiming that peoples gurus was cheating quacks without knowing the facts just as I don't go calling peoples mother whores.
And especially not basing those assumptions only on race..."hey you are from Thailand.....I bet your mum is a whore".
Sorry, I could tell more about that guru and others to prove my point, but I'm not having any discussions with individuals such as yourself.
Get some manners and open up your prejudice infested mind.
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