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stop calling psy dark

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 14:50

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 14:37, Fria Tantrumm wrote:

But the Name Kali is not derived from Black...so you too must have hung out with fake Tantriks ( there are alot of those, esepecially in Tantra, as it is the path that foreigners find most enticing). If you hate to correct an Indian on tehir culture DON'T...you are probably misinformed as most others are.

Yes...if it's a foreigner getting in contact with a guru then it must be a fake one.
I can tell you that you can keep you rasistic assumptions for yourself.
Feel free to ask questions about the gurus if you wonder about their credentials, but to claim yourself better knowing based on the fact that it was gurus that I met as a westerner is both rude and stupid.

And since the view of those gurus coincide with the literature on the subject it becomes even more puzzling when you say that they are wrong and that only an Indian can correct an Indian on Hindusim.
Just for you information, knowledge is not bound to race and trying to use the race card in a discussion about facts is just retarded.

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Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 14:56

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 14:42, Fria Tantrumm wrote:

The hard core Kali worshippers would not be chilling out with a bunch of foreigners in the first place.

So you have to be a hardline racist to be a Kali worshipper as well?
Do you have a source on that?

And again you keep assuming things about gurus based on the fact that they are not racists.
If you like to know about the gurus I lived with I can tell you that your assumption that they chill with a "bunch of foreigners" is wrong.
Since you know nothing about the gurus I spent time with I appreciate if you spare me your prejudices.

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 14:58

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 14:42, Fria Tantrumm wrote:

Wiki is not an authority, neither are your stints with a bunch of Tantriks. Wiki can be editted by anyone...

But the sources they link to cannot be edited by anyone.

Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics : 158
Posts : 5306
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:00

its not racism
its the fact that where you live , your home land , your mothers language , are better known to you then outsider that visit the place.
my theory anyway..
not saying anything about the facts neither here or there...

www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/

Fria Tantrumm

Started Topics : 5
Posts : 368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:00

It's not racist it is a fact, that Tantra breeded the maximum fakes, based on it sex and religion appeal. And that kali is teh most misunderstood Goddess and yes, alot of literature about her is based on false facts. I don't know what Guru's you hung out with, but as I said....read on Ramakrishna, the greatest that ever existed. And he wasn't even a guru, he was a servant, he was so consumed by the Goddess he could not assume the role of a guru, he was maddened by the visions and wrote some of the most amazing poetry to exist in Hindu devotional literature. A Kali "Guru" who claims Kali comes from Black apparently is pretty low on the preaching hierarchy. If you are really interested in knowing the truth, instead of using wiki, I honestly reccomend Ramakrishna and Ramaprasad. They have the best understanding of this
A true "Guru" Would not call himself a "Guru"
He would not assume the title that is indicative of the Ego...unfortunately very few "gurus" actually exist and many assume the title without earning it.
Yes religion is deteriorating, based on hybridisations and the new trends...and the insistence to contort philosophy based on Wiki and a few meetings with "Gurus".
I don;t care how much time and with who you hung out Mr. Spindrift, you obviously have been led a fool, or just didn;t understand what the guru's may have been trying to tell you.
That Kali comes from Time, and time is black, hence she is given a black colour, as is the cosmos and as is space. So even though Kaali also means Black it was not the basis for her name.
The concepts she was meant to inculcate were devised before the name. The name is based on the philosophy, and thus Kali, as it represents her being time space cosmos and aptly also describes the colour of these concepts.

**************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT!

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:06

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:00, Elad wrote:
its not racism
its the fact that where you live , your home land , your mothers language , are better known to you then outsider that visit the place.
my theory anyway..

I know a Swedish professor in Sanskrit at the Stockholm university that is extremely knowledgeable and I can guarantee you know more about Hinduism than 99.9% of Indians.
And there are certainly many Indians who know more about Christianity than 99.9% of the Swedes.
The way Fria is reasoning is without a doubt racism because she is assuming she is right based on the fact of what race the person of the conflicting view has.
Of course the average Indian know more about Hinduism than the average Swede, that is a fair presumption. But it's rasistic prejudice to assume that it's always the case.

Fria Tantrumm

Started Topics : 5
Posts : 368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:13

Racism is a western notion. Do not bring your views into this realm. The west continuously tries to insist their theories and use their conceptions to rationalize eastern thought. IT DOES NOT WORK BRO.
I was not even arguing with you, you just jumped in and again based your "FACTS" on wiki and a few boom gathering with "Gurus".
When I said "KALI" does not mean dark I was right...at most KAALI means Black, symbolic of time space and cosmos. SHe was not called Black and then from this suddenly one day the religious elders thought "OH FUCK...we better cone up with something deeper cause everyone will make fun of use thinking we called a goddess black based on what??? ok lets think of black things to associate her with." and so they made up all this philosophy of time etc..??? NO IT DIDN:T HAPPEN LIKE THIS
No she was called time and space and from this came the notion that these concepts are black, hence she should have black skin....don't look skin deep Spindrift...There is a lot more to it than just the colour. You sound racist.

**************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT!

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:17

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:00, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
It's not racist it is a fact, that Tantra breeded the maximum fakes, based on it sex and religion appeal. And that kali is teh most misunderstood Goddess and yes, alot of literature about her is based on false facts.

So it's a fact that "The hard core Kali worshippers would not be chilling out with a bunch of foreigners in the first place. "

In essence what you are saying is that anyone who spend time with foreigners have all their knowledge automatically disqualified because they spend time with people born in another country.

If is not racism to disqualify anyone simply spending time with a foreigner I don't know what is.

Fria Tantrumm

Started Topics : 5
Posts : 368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:20

YOu are harping on one sentence of mine and not reading nay of my answers.
Keep your racial sensitivity to yourself. Racism was a concept invented by the white man unfortunately so don;t even make me laugh. I'm not being racist, I'm calling everyone not of Indian origin a foreigner. If that racist to your, dude then you obviously learnt nothing from your time in India with the "Gurus" Don't harp on one sentence like you can't believe it. Get over it. Read the rest or piss off.

**************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT!

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:25

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:13, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Racism is a western notion. Do not bring your views into this realm. The west continuously tries to insist their theories and use their conceptions to rationalize eastern thought. IT DOES NOT WORK BRO.
I was not even arguing with you, you just jumped in and again based your "FACTS" on wiki and a few boom gathering with "Gurus".

Look....I know for a fact that Kali is associated with black by a lot of Hindus from spending time with them.
You claim that is not the case.
Now looking at wiki incidentally it agrees with my view and provides a source to the claim which is Panini.

You have now dismissed my impression because I'm a foreigner, dismissed the gurus I know based on the fact that the spend time with foreigners and dismissed Panini based on the fact that it's linked to from a foreign resource.

And now because you are from the eastern hemisphere you cannot even be a racist since that is something reserved for the westerners.

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:30

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:20, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
YOu are harping on one sentence of mine and not reading nay of my answers.
Keep your racial sensitivity to yourself. Racism was a concept invented by the white man unfortunately so don;t even make me laugh. I'm not being racist, I'm calling everyone not of Indian origin a foreigner. If that racist to your, dude then you obviously learnt nothing from your time in India with the "Gurus" Don't harp on one sentence like you can't believe it. Get over it. Read the rest or piss off.

Sorry, but I feel it's a very telling sentence and you have yet failed to clarify what makes a guru disqualified in your eyes by spending time with a foreigner other than racism.

Fria Tantrumm

Started Topics : 5
Posts : 368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:30

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:25, Spindrift wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:13, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Racism is a western notion. Do not bring your views into this realm. The west continuously tries to insist their theories and use their conceptions to rationalize eastern thought. IT DOES NOT WORK BRO.
I was not even arguing with you, you just jumped in and again based your "FACTS" on wiki and a few boom gathering with "Gurus".

Look....I know for a fact that Kali is associated with black by a lot of Hindus from spending time with them.
You claim that is not the case.
Now looking at wiki incidentally it agrees with my view and provides a source to the claim which is Panini.

You have now dismissed my impression because I'm a foreigner, dismissed the gurus I know based on the fact that the spend time with foreigners and dismissed Panini based on the fact that it's linked to from a foreign resource.

And now because you are from the eastern hemisphere you cannot even be a racist since that is something reserved for the westerners.

YES

Exactly...you finally caught on. Your thought processes and wiki might be in sync but it's a false sync...It's giving you a false sense of security, further nurtured by your meetings with Babas who gaveyou a "simplified" version of the actual concept.
Kaali means black but the Goddess was not invented based on "BLACK" UNDERSTAND??
Kali was given a black colour to epitomise all the aspects she stands for...and yes, it was a nice coincidence that Time, and black have the same root word.
But this is why it is known that she is the most misunderstood...as people like you purport to insist she comes from Black. and then you go on to say that all the hindus you know believe in her as the godddess who symbolises Black.
I mean do you think a whole Goddess would have been invented just on a bloody colour?? Then we would have a red one and a pink one too.
The colour just represents the concept..Like Shiva is BLUE because he drank the poison that threatened to end the word, and this poison turned his skin blue..as he keeps it within him to save humanity...

**************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT!

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:40

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:30, Fria Tantrumm wrote:

YES
Exactly...you finally caught on. Your thought processes and wiki might be in sync but it's a false sync...It's giving you a false sense of security, further nurtured by your meetings with Babas who gaveyou a "simplified" version of the actual concept.

Great that I now can get in sync by a label owner instead of a tantric guru.
I do hope you have not spent time with foreigners though so you are not disqualified as well.

I have not spoke anything about what Kali symbolises but you claimed that Kali doesn't mean dark, not that Kali is not only symbolised by darkness.

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:30, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Kaali means black

Hmm...a while ago it was "Kali does not mean dark."

I don't think anyone been claiming that Kali is the same thing as black or dark, but it's certainly an aspect of the symbolism which can be seen clearly both in the name and in how she is depicted.

Fria Tantrumm

Started Topics : 5
Posts : 368
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 15:49

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:40, Spindrift wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:30, Fria Tantrumm wrote:

YES
Exactly...you finally caught on. Your thought processes and wiki might be in sync but it's a false sync...It's giving you a false sense of security, further nurtured by your meetings with Babas who gaveyou a "simplified" version of the actual concept.

Great that I now can get in sync by a label owner instead of a tantric guru.
I do hope you have not spent time with foreigners though so you are not disqualified as well.

I have not spoke anything about what Kali symbolises but you claimed that Kali doesn't mean dark, not that Kali is not only symbolised by darkness.

Quote:

On 2008-12-15 15:30, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Kaali means black

Hmm...a while ago it was "Kali does not mean dark."

I don't think anyone been claiming that Kali is the same thing as black or dark, but it's certainly an aspect of the symbolism which can be seen clearly both in the name and in how she is depicted.

I'm sorry mr. Spindrift t have to explain to you things yiou do not want to understand basically.
There is a difference between Dark and Black...and In sanskrit there is a world of differenve between the two. One symbolizing a colour with nothing negative associated to it, the other symbolizing an aspect that usually pioneered as negative concept. See in Indian mytholygy demons or the bad dudes were not associated with Black..in fact they were very colourfull...so black doesn't mean the dark side or anything scary, thus Black and dark not being teh same thing, thus this discusion of Kali being used wrongly for the "DARK SIDE"...In most Kali festivals she is not even dark in colour...look in google for Kali statues and you'll see very few of them ARE BLACK...
Now to put all of this into english and narrow it down to fit your little western thought is but an insult and thus the confusion and if you find it rascist then piss off...I find it insulting to have an entire religion and concept broken down into English translations that in English depict a colour but in Sanskrit depict a whole world of something else. And then to have someone call me racist when I point out that the misconception is based on a western upbringing

Using the concept of symbolism and trying to understand mysteries based on imagery is another western phenomena that is always falsely utilized when trying to decipher eastern religion as though as what works in sweden does not work in Tibet FOR EXAMPLE
For an indian it's very easy to see Kali, while she might come across as dark or terrifying to you, there is nothing dark or terrifying about her to us...because she is not meant for that, because we never looked at her like that, because we know, we have a sense of what she is meant to depict..we feel the mood in the temples, at the festivals and we understand the concepts.

**************************************
Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT!

gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics : 54
Posts : 3018
Posted : Dec 15, 2008 16:04

shit... isn't there any sunny god over there in india??
a yellow godness with long super-legs, brown tan , brunette with long hair, beautiful with an incredible body ?
personally ive seen such a god-chick years back raving+tripping

, but couldnt find out where was she from (thelsdwasreallystrong).
...
beside the fun seriously, the name thats more appropriate is aggressive trance not dark
in fact, it is so much aggressive sometimes that if those peaceful hindus listened to that music all day , would probably end up slaughtering all the cows on the road and make them souvlaki ..

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