Spiritual Property: Does psytrance steal cultures?

On 2005-06-16 05:13, Psycosmo wrote:
... For example take Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is a very highly regarded plant in the Amazon. Shamans start training at as young as 11 years of age. They spend months eating special diets, abstaining from sex etc. In other words it's a big deal.
I think that using the name of that drink as a marketing gimmick for a cd is in pretty bad taste and if people are going to borrow from other cultures they should at least learn a little bit about those cultures and show some respect. I mean come on the "Deep in the Amazon the Ancient Incas used the holy Ayahuasca" sample! The Incas werent even from the Amazon, they were from the Andes mountains next to the Amazon. I know it sounds like nitpicking but I really dont feel the statement that oversights like that make about our style.

On 2005-06-16 20:53, Mistress of Evil wrote:
i think this is a very interesting topic with some well thought out replies...
i just wanted to chime in that i don't think that anyone can "own" a belief or idea, religious or otherwise. There is a difference between practicing and accepting other religions or cultural ideals and disrespecting them. It all has to do with your intention.
peace
megan

On 2005-06-16 19:05, floatyhippyflower wrote:
I have to say I'm with TRapp on this one.

I find it odd that some people think certain elements of spirituality such as religious icons, symbols or belief systems are things that can be 'stolen' by another culture.
It's worth remembering that no culture starts out in 'pure' form, that is, the form we might see and know it today. Each has evolved (for want of a better word) from the collection and connection of different peoples across the globe over long periods of time in our history.

Take Hinduism for example. From a historical point of view, it developed from of the Indian Vedic traditions of the subcontinent following the arrival of the Aryan people from the north-west. They co-existed with the indigenous population, with whom they shared many things including gods, societal and spiritual practices etc….
Even the caste system they introduced became intricately locked in to religious practices, politics and economics. And thus a 'new' way of living and believing emerged over many centuries to bring us the Hindu culture that exists today.

I'm obviously cutting a very long and complex process short here but the point I'm trying to make is that we all borrow from each other. It's nothing new, even for those 'big' religions or 'established' cultures we psytrancers are all supposed to be thieving from. Buddhism shares many symbols and icons with the Hindu movement because between them they have a certain shared history with respect to time, place, people involved etc…Isn’t that why many people use the phrase ‘Judeo-Christian’ to describe the link between two massive world religions that share a common origin and history for example?

In fact you could almost certainly take any religion/any culture as an example; pick one, trace it back and I bet you'd find strong links to different societies that may not even be immediately apparent to us in the present age, but whose effect on that culture was pivotal or evolutionary in some way within its history. And it's not just religion or culture you know. That's true of practically everything - musical development, personal development, world politics....it’s all cause and effect, the interaction of races and peoples, important events, or inventions even…
It’s the same with psytrance then is it not? The historical links between trance and Goa mean that inevitably something of the Indian/Goan way of life have permeated our ethos and our music. I see nothing wrong with that.

Someone questioned me recently on my choice to wear bindis for special occasions because I’m not a married Hindu woman. I replied by explaining that I also like singing carols at Christmas, even though I’m not a Christian. I enjoy yoga and try to implement certain Buddhist meditational techniques into my life to calm my body and mind even though I’m not a Buddhist.
These are just small things that have their roots in a particular established culture, but they have a different meaning or appeal for me as an individual and I think that’s fine. It doesn’t lessen my respect for those who choose to live within the confines (for want of a better word) of those denominations; in fact it’s because those things resonate with me on a personal level, BECAUSE I respect and enjoy them that I chose to implement them in my own life.

Whoever mentioned the dangers of spiritual elitism was right on the money in my view. Spirituality is such a very personal thing that to exclude someone from enjoying a particular way of life, worshipping a particular icon or subscribing to a certain belief because they don’t adhere to other aspects of a religion/culture I think is a very dangerous thing to do. Not only does it not allow for personal growth but I think cultural evolution too. Everything is fluid. Nothing stays the same. Just because the psytrance genre is a relatively new movement compared with others doesn’t mean it’s less meaningful to one person than Christianity might be to another. It’s just a different way of life, that’s all.

We are a global collective. We need to be open to all ways of life, whatever their origins or past history, or we end up segregated – or worse still, reverting to the religious/cultural tribalism that has sparked so many wars, battles, arguments etc…over the centuries. On a smaller scale, you end up with cliques, judgementalism, separation…and if we all did that all the time the world would be boring to live in - never mixing with other cliques or tribes.
I might be a little naïve in my opinions here. But frankly, I wouldn’t dream of saying to anybody else ‘don’t believe what you believe, don’t do what you do, you’re diluting my English heritage’ or ‘you’re infiltrating my psytrance goddamn you, fuck off back to your techno club…’
Live and let live. As long as we’re not harming anyone.

Know what I mean?

Shit. Sorry. Fucking huge post!
3;~

On 2005-06-18 03:47, mubali wrote:


An argument could be made that this style of music as well as all dance music as a whole is attempting to break down the geographical differences of our world. I mean, take a look at this forum for instance!!! When I was a teen, I never thought that I would be able to converse with so many people not only from another country, but with those with a completely different set of belief structures than I have and still have common ground. I may not practice any particular religion, but the fact that this culture gives me the opportunity to learn about the other cultures in this world really brings a smile to my face. For me that is true enlightenment, to learn in a way that is enjoyable. Before I began listening to this music, I didn't know squat about the Hindu culture. Not saying I know that much now, but I do know a lot more than I did when I was 20.

On 2005-06-18 03:47, mubali wrote:
An argument could be made that this style of music as well as all dance music as a whole is attempting to break down the geographical differences of our world. I mean, take a look at this forum for instance!!! When I was a teen, I never thought that I would be able to converse with so many people not only from another country, but with those with a completely different set of belief structures than I have and still have common ground. I may not practice any particular religion, but the fact that this culture gives me the opportunity to learn about the other cultures in this world really brings a smile to my face. For me that is true enlightenment, to learn in a way that is enjoyable.