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Trance Forum  Forum  North America - Secret Psychedelica v6.1 > Monday, January 23 > ft KAISER SOZE (Chilluminati) > Santa Clara
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Secret Psychedelica v6.1 > Monday, January 23 > ft KAISER SOZE (Chilluminati) > Santa Clara

DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jan 4, 2006 23:03
I used to be a beatmatching purist until I saw people who don't know how to beatmatch play amazing sets. At this point, I don't really give a damn - I will always beatmatch because that's what I was brought up to do as a DJ, but if someone chooses to fade or beat synch or whatever and plays a good seamless set, then who cares? As long as there are no trainwrecks..

and those techno DJs? haha.. mixing techno isn't so hard as they'd like you to believe. and a lot more fun than psy, to be honest. The genre is built on DJ skill as opposed to the musical flow as in Psytrance. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Techno DJs will never use Traktor because you can't really do tricks with it (afaik).. but really, in putting down Traktor DJs we behave just like vinyl purists who say that CD DJing isn't for real.


          ..it's just another party..
KaiserSoze
Primordial Ooze

Started Topics :  11
Posts :  196
Posted : Jan 4, 2006 23:26
So... This party will be awesome! Can't wait to hear Mubali. Unfortunately he got dropped from NYE due to time constraints. I was really looking forward to hearing his set.

paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  1098
Posted : Jan 5, 2006 00:27
i think this is the most repsonses ever on a secret psychedelica thread, though the topic itself has drifted from that of a event post
good advertising none-the-less, and a good intelligent , non-heated conversation (preety hard to find on here)
about the merits of one tool vs another.

to Rich, BPM counters are more or less ineffective while playing. If your mixing through tracks ones on mixers cant ever get a accurate reading, and the only ones on cdjs ive found to be dead on are on the CMX's.
and if you dj on 100's, that should cure most of needing to use them.

to Dimitri, your right, techno dj attitude is as the brits would say a load of rubbish. Its preety easy to mix, i strated out playing variants of it. It is all about mixer dexterity in that genre, flow or set construct has very little to do with it, which would be number 2 on my list of being a good dj.
However even a well flowing set to me is ruined when every mix is a wreck or when there is a breakdown every 2:30, made by soft mixng the intro's and outros together, coupled witht he breakdown of the track itself.
Some non-matching dj's have found away around this at least, and that is by using the digital time reads, they know when to hit play on the next cdj and slam things in on a beat. Those at least can keep the energy on the floor up with out loosing it too much.

As for you Scott, ive witnessed you throw down on a few occasions now, and wont dispute any of what you say. You make a strong argument in favor of your choice of medium, and ive got to give you that. I guess im just a old fuss-pot in my ways, but aside from the ability to on time sample (which im intrigued about) i can and do all that too, with cdj's.
and yeah im big on the visual appeal of working the gear myself, one reason why i play with effects on the cdj's as much as i do, is it makes a visual connection with the dj doing something on the equipment.
anyways i know you know how to mix with out using the sync function, and im sure there are many others like that to. I guess if you have the skills to do it with out using it first, and just are to improve other facits of the performance, its a bit different, than someone who cant and is using it as their only means of being able to lineup a beat.

My 2 cents, well i guess this is more like a nickles worth but you get the point
          
Logical Light Music - SF
Straylight Productions -SF
Sound/Mind - Denver
Xcience - Midwest


mixes for dl at :
http://www.thehothouse.net/straylight/paradigm/index.htm

"He who ha-ha's last, ha-ha's best"
SOT
Primordial Ooze

Started Topics :  1
Posts :  77
Posted : Jan 5, 2006 00:51
more on the matter and tottaly of topic

time and time again... what i find most entertaining is the fact that no matter how many arguments are started over the performance medium they end up in the land of "what makes one a good dj?" and multitude of "i feel that...." or "a good dj is...." answers pop up. largely answers based on personal preferences, though they do have common points of reference. (examples: beat matching, flow, watching the floor reaction, fornicating with rotten chunks of meat and throwing them into the audience) All these great "must-have" characteristics usually get brought up at some point or another .. tho taking the conversation further and further from ... uhm.. the medium.

so why the discussion in the first place?


reaction to things we don't understand:
It is clear, that part of the experience involves "watching the performer." With the live instrument it was watching someone "kick the drum" and with vinyl it was "watching" someone touch the plate, and there was much disappointment (birthing discussions like this one) when we couldn't see that anymore. But with time we learned new cues, with cds it became "watching" someone dig through cd folder.. cd in hands - time for a new track, if someone repeatedly pounding on cue/stop/start, (even visually accented on cdj1000 with color lights around buttons) they got trigger-happy fingers ... ect, ect. That "visual feedback" conformation that something is happening, being manipulated, matter is being moved around, contributes to one's experience.

So, what are they actually doing there behind those laptop screens? .. This mystery, feeling disappointed because we can't see... we need to see, dammit! to enjoy it better! we need to understand! We need new cues! What if the performer is playing an i-pod shuffle? .. i'd feel so cheated! could it be what you are thinking?

So you see, it would matter very little for me to tell you that "0.7" trick doesn't always work on cdjs just like traktor doesn't beat match the way i'd consider mixable... or that those of us who use/used it and other similar tools are just as pressed to beat match and mix using ears to get it to what sounds "perfect" ... or that sync function is a sure way to a train wreck if you didn't lock your track tempos and disabled tempo auto correction. All of this wouldn't matter because until new cues are learned and performance model is accepted these discussions will be here and someone else would be paraphrasing what we are talking about now.

As for Scott, he is extremely talented artist, versatile and inventive, sensitive to energy on a dance floor and obsessive compulsive about the flow and timing. He was this way when playing vinyl for years, and will probably be this way when mixing 24-bit dvd-audio streams using VR-gloves on a laser projected control grid some years from now...

so lets find our cues, lets get out there and dance yer arse off... or lets sit and watch others dance after all we're bit old now days... whatever is the case.. You are not being cheated! dance till chaos comes.
          ----------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/primordialtrance
http://www.chilluminati.org/
http://www.touchsamadhi.com/
paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  1098
Posted : Jan 5, 2006 01:03
no doubt that todays traktor users will be on this same end of discussion when the vr gloves and laser projected grids come into use

its deffinatley a perpetuating cycle of cynicism towards the next generation of mixing technology           
Logical Light Music - SF
Straylight Productions -SF
Sound/Mind - Denver
Xcience - Midwest


mixes for dl at :
http://www.thehothouse.net/straylight/paradigm/index.htm

"He who ha-ha's last, ha-ha's best"
SOT
Primordial Ooze

Started Topics :  1
Posts :  77
Posted : Jan 5, 2006 01:11
hahah thats a fact Lawrence! ... VR would so be cheating, hell, when you see a waveform in 3d and can grab a kick by its tits and wave a hand to do a low-cut for 32 measures then move another hand and snap that waveform right into place? .. fookin' "minority report" type screen manipulations ... we'd we waving hands in the air like we don't care.. totaly cheating!           ----------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/primordialtrance
http://www.chilluminati.org/
http://www.touchsamadhi.com/
famiable
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  201
Posted : Jan 5, 2006 03:16
I think that this discussion should be archived for future generations to see how change in any model is hard to accept:) there will always be controversy about change..but the survivors will be the people who accept it and incorporate it in their lives.. Masters have come out of their element to clarify things in this thread and hopefully newcoming djs will learn from this in the future..

Mahadev Ki Jai!!
PsyberTribe Records
PsyberTribe Records

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  170
Posted : Jan 9, 2006 19:57
sECRET PSYCHEDELICA WILL ALWAYS BE THE SHIZZLE.MICHAEL BUSTS HIS PUT WITH THIS AND i CAN GARUNTEE IT WILL BE A GOOD SHOW.I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING ALOT OF FUN WITH YOU ALL AND DECORATING WITH MY ART.KAISER,I DO HAVE MY OWN BELIEFS WITH DJING ON RECORDS AND CD'S AND RUNNING IT OFF YOUR LAPTOP BUT IF IT SOUNDS GOOD,WHATEVER.I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING YOU PLAY AGAIN.MUCH LOVE AND LET'S KEEP THIS POST THE WAY IT SHOULD BE GOING:)
rich
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  103
Posts :  2184
Posted : Jan 9, 2006 20:08
And let's keep the caps lock key off, please.
Let the words stand up for themselves.


paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  1098
Posted : Jan 9, 2006 23:10
yeah Nik , no caps lock, only for major urgent announcements, or if you happen to be from south of the border           
Logical Light Music - SF
Straylight Productions -SF
Sound/Mind - Denver
Xcience - Midwest


mixes for dl at :
http://www.thehothouse.net/straylight/paradigm/index.htm

"He who ha-ha's last, ha-ha's best"
PsyberTribe Records
PsyberTribe Records

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  170
Posted : Jan 10, 2006 00:30
blah blah blah blah.police everywhere.it's a post for trance music man!!come on.blah bla,....blah:)
Mr Liu
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  100
Posts :  186
Posted : Jan 10, 2006 06:10
Oh my...what happened to this thread? Haha... We finally see what DJs have fragile egos. Just kidding. Anyhow, I just wanted to add some information. We will once again be opening the back room for additional music. The Drow will be bringing their signature breaks sound to add to the evening. Here's the information below:

the "backroom" hosted by the Drow:
4MATT
ACTUAL RAFIQ
KIKIPOPO
JASON SMITH


Alright, now let's get back on the topic of beatmatching...
Mr Liu
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  100
Posts :  186
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 04:33
I hear that this is one of Mubali's last local performances before he heads off to tour in support of his new album. Let's give him a proper send-off!
Takuan"the pickled radish"


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  225
Posted : Jan 23, 2006 18:30
monday nighter woohooo I just licked the toad WOW!
Mr Liu
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  100
Posts :  186
Posted : Jan 23, 2006 18:54
Yep. It's on for tonight. I'll post timeslots later this afternoon.

Takuan, will you be able to make it out tonight?
Trance Forum  Forum  North America - Secret Psychedelica v6.1 > Monday, January 23 > ft KAISER SOZE (Chilluminati) > Santa Clara
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