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Psytrance lead and stuff
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nutrinoland
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
34
Posted : Jul 25, 2014 00:08
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Really liking that Bazille... very nice...first time I did audio rate mod to resonance  ) |
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Bipolar
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
78
Posts :
490
Posted : Jul 25, 2014 01:03
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On 2014-07-21 15:05, sachin22 wrote:
Hi mate, thanks for getting back to me.This is what i normally do but somehow my sound don't come out the way i want it to sound.DO you use pre made patches or do you make your own patch mate? And how about samples, how do you use them to get creative?
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I create my own, but sometimes I grab a patch that I like, and twick it until I get something interesting! and samples I try not to use, I use them for percussive sounds, like my hi hats , or snare, or maybe my kick, but for all the noises and melodies I try to make them my own!
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nutrinoland
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
34
Posted : Jul 25, 2014 05:49
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Working with Audio offers You different possibilities from what working with synthesis can offer You. They are both very valuable areas of production. Try to learn as much as You can about synthesis. You won't need preset patches once You know how to create Your own.
After that You can record Your own samples, create a big library and use Your own audio samples in Your projects. Its a lot of fun, so dont be impatient about achieving the pro sounds right away...go through the journey and learn as much as You can...one day You will know what You need to know... |
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sachin22
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
31
Posted : Jul 26, 2014 08:23
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On 2014-07-25 05:49, nutrinoland wrote:
Working with Audio offers You different possibilities from what working with synthesis can offer You. They are both very valuable areas of production. Try to learn as much as You can about synthesis. You won't need preset patches once You know how to create Your own.
After that You can record Your own samples, create a big library and use Your own audio samples in Your projects. Its a lot of fun, so dont be impatient about achieving the pro sounds right away...go through the journey and learn as much as You can...one day You will know what You need to know...
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I like what you said Nutrino and thanks for the reply buddy. Yes, i have already started to make my own patches. My only issue is how to get a clean, solid and thick sound. I do layer them. THey do become thick, but i can still find some dullness with it. If you know what i mean.
And my other issue is, once i make a patch, how to use them creatively to make a good lead etc with it? Can you share me a bit of your knowledge more please mate.
Thanks buddy and have a good day...  |
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nutrinoland
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
34
Posted : Jul 28, 2014 20:24
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I would suggest to start by becoming familiar with subtractive synthesis. Understand the different parts/modules of a synth. The sound starts at the oscillators. This is where You will create the main tone or combination of tones, that You will shape and modulate later with envelopes, LFOs and filters, Automation. There are many things You can do at the Oscillator stage, to create interesting sounds/Timbres . For example - combining waveforms from 3 oscillators. Detuning one or more of the oscillators. Tuning the oscillators to intervals such as octaves, fifths, thirds etc (Music Theory)... Some synths offer You possibilities for Ring modulation or Amplitude modulation or Frequency Modulation. These are ways to generate many types of sounds which You can further shape.
Sometimes all You need is one oscillator for a powerful sound. You do not always need to use many oscillators.
Next Your filters can help You achieve many interesting possibilities. Become familiar with lowpass, highpass, bandpass and notch filters. A simple sawtooth can sound very different through all of these different filters.
Use envelopes to shape Your sounds...do You want long sounds or short sounds or a sound which gradually fades away in volume or a sound that suddenly rises in pitch etc...
LFo's are very good tools for all sorts of interesting sounds and they are very popular in Psy productions...
Spend time with all these parts of a synth.
Use an Oscilloscope and Spectrum analyzer to help You understand what is going on with the sounds You are creating..
Learn about Frequency and Harmonics, wavelength, phase, amplitude etc... You need a good understanding of all these concepts, so You can create sounds precisely , with a full understanding.
While YOu layer SAMPLES, make sure You are layering the right samples together...Do they work together in terms of music theory...are they in KEy with the rest of Your track..if not You can pitch shift them...also Use EQ's or filters to layer samples so the different components/layers of the sound are not clashing...for example a high pass on a sound whose high frequencies You want in your sound and a low pass on a sound whose lows you want. Layer these together and they will fit better.
A clean sound comes from Understanding the process and using only the necessary steps, rather than doing many things without understanding each one clearly. Think of it like a recipe for a chicken dish YOu want to cook. You need to know what each ingredient is going to contribute to the overall Dish.
Salt makes it salty..chilli makes it spicy...So accordingly YOu will use each, with understanding of its character.
Start simple and add to it. one oscillator, One filter, one envelope etc...
Automation is an awesome thing..use it to make Your sounds come alive..for example..automate panning to make a sound move around Your stereo ..automate LFO rate on the pitch or automate the volume envelope decay to have notes of different lengths. Use a midi controller for more possibilities.
The second question - A single sound can be used in 10000 different ways. infact You can even make a whole track with just one sound, if You edit and process that sound in different ways. pitch shifting, time stretching, granular synthesis, looping, filtering, reverb, delay, compression, distortion, waveshaping, layering....ETC...so many possibilities to alter just one sound...
Anyway...You said " once I make a patch, how do I use it in a track " ... Maybe You can try to make a patch with a purpose for it, right from the beginning. Meaning..while making the patch, You already know that YOu are making this sound for a bass or for a lead...if You have some direction from the beginning it can help you. Other times You can be creative and tailor a sound to Your needs..for example take an existing patch or sample and change its parameters to alter it to what You need. Lets say You find a preset that came with Your copy of Massive or Sylenth. You like something about it.. You can use that patch and change some of the settings to suit Your needs..maybe an Arpeggiated patch, You can turn off the arpeggiator and use that sound to make a pad instead, by making the attack and release long...
Listen to lots of music..even other styles, like house and techno, classical, rock etc...see how sounds are used in those genres..a lot YOu can learn from that...Soon You will get it !! keep going good luck ! |
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sachin22
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
31
Posted : Jul 28, 2014 20:51
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Hi Nutrino, thanks for your time to share me your knowledge. Do you have any link to your tracks please. Your explanation is so good. Am quite keen to have a listen to your sound. Just a quick question. Why don't I get a solid, tight, round and loud kick and bass? Mine is quite good but it kind of have less energy. However when i use samples, it's a bit better. But am still not happy about it. |
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fraxi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
159
Posted : Jul 28, 2014 21:02
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Quote:
| Why don't I get a solid, tight, round and loud kick and bass? Mine is quite good but it kind of have less energy. However when i use samples, it's a bit better. But am still not happy about it. |
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It will take you some time, just be patient
Synthesis, eq, compression, saturation etc
Write tracks and try to learn as much as you can:-) |
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sachin22
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
31
Posted : Jul 28, 2014 21:11
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Cool man, I'll enjoy the journey and keep practicing. Thanks buddy...;-) |
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nutrinoland
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
34
Posted : Jul 28, 2014 22:18
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sachin22
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
31
Posted : Jul 29, 2014 22:04
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Thanks for the link Nutrino. Have a good day mate...;-) |
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routingwithin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
204
Posted : Jul 30, 2014 16:33
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The complexity of the lead plays a huge role. Good music is when you can hear the intelligence in it. i.e: the effort that you put in.
Note: With complex I don't mean insanity.. there should also be structure.
Play around with your octaves, to open up the variety/feel of sound. You can also build up a pattern and duplicate it one octave up and one down, then make minor changes in certain areas- staying on the scale of course.
That's also another thing, staying on the scale also keeps everything under control - some notes may fit, but can start confusion. i.e. Starting on G-minor, then changing the note which actually belongs to G-Major. . There ain't no rules, but keep it in mind. If you do it wrong you will start messing with the subconscious harmony of the tones.
Another useful thing to make things interesting, is when you're done creating a nice complex pattern, duplicate your synth/lead sound module like 4 times (i.e. Sylenth1). Change and tweak each one so it sounds different
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Copy the pattern to all 4 and remove notes from each one so that each plays different parts of the pattern. Make sure that two don't play at the same time. They should make turns.
Finally - Automate your parameters/knobs, but not randomly. Let them follow a cycle complimenting the flow of the music. i.e one moves 8 beats per cycle and the other 4 beats.
Hope this helps
Good luck
 " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. " |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Jul 30, 2014 23:44
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On 2014-07-25 00:08, nutrinoland wrote:
Really liking that Bazille... very nice...first time I did audio rate mod to resonance )
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kicks ass. that thing sounds very very nice. oscillators sound hardware analogue to my ears. |
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sachin22
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
31
Posted : Jul 31, 2014 11:19
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Thanks Routingwithin. It does really help. I normally do duplicate my synth and make changes in them. But after i find out that my sound is not as tight as what it was before. Any idea why and what can i do to fix this please.
Cheers buddy...;-) |
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routingwithin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
204
Posted : Aug 1, 2014 12:41
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On 2014-07-31 11:19, sachin22 wrote:
Thanks Routingwithin. It does really help. I normally do duplicate my synth and make changes in them. But after i find out that my sound is not as tight as what it was before. Any idea why and what can i do to fix this please.
Cheers buddy...;-)
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The answers are mostly in the question.
"But after i find out that my sound is not as tight as what it was before."
This could be because the lead has too many layers. The more you add, the more crowded things become, which causes more sounds fighting for space.
I bet you layer stuff cause its not interesting enough, but the real reason is that the first lead sound wasn't processed etc etc. So you try to make up for poor quality with more variety.
If we look at Deadmau5 - his music is minimal. The track has a beat running with only this one sound - but that one sound/lead has amazing quality. Like they say, less is more, buttttt only if you can get one sound to intrigue the listener for quite a while.
Keep this in mind:
If you layer two leads it shouldn't sound like two sound layers on top of each other. because without EQ their identical frequencies will cause an unbalance in the track, then you jump to compression to decrease the dynamic range, but then you add another layer which will require more compression-... and in the end you have a lifeless lead sound.
So use individual EQ and cut out frequency areas on each lead sound so they offer up space for the other. Make sure the lead sound's fundamentals are emphasized. i.e layer two leads together - one having its fundamental at 250hz and the other having its fundamentals at 3-5Khz. So it can naturally fit together. Don't try to force a lead which has a fundamental at 250hz to live in the 5K area..
It is possible, but you would need alot going on in the mix to distract your ears.
Tightness can be fixed with compression- keeping in mind that the dynamic range gives it movement and a more natural sound. Also by shortening your note lengths can help improve this.
Use a Frequency analyzer and check each layer individually and make notes where the frequencies resides within the spectrum. Then you know where to cut each one.
Picture it like this. You have 3 solid metal pipes- but you only want 1 pipe.. so you need to cut out mirrored sections on each to make them fit into one another and once again become one metal pipe.
However it does not stop there, cause in the mixing phase the kick,bass,hihats,snare etc are additional metal pipes which also needs to be cut to fit together with the rest. This shows you how difficult it becomes when you add more and more sounds to your track.
Less is more
Make everything ONE..
practice,,, try new techniques,, research on the web and I am sure you will get there.
Investing in outboard analog hardware will also help a great deal with your quality of sound.
Peace out
" We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. " |
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sachin22
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
31
Posted : Aug 2, 2014 06:52
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Thanks for your time Routingwithin. You sound quite experienced man. Its really good to have people like you and Neutrino around. I can tell that you guys have struggled a lot to make music and with a bit of determination, you guys have succeeded. Good inspirations guys and thanks a lot for being there for me. May be a quick one before i finish with my topic. I find out that when i do my production on the headphone at night. It sounds quite good but in the morning when i play it through the monitors, it dont sound the same. Any idea why?
And secondly, what do you use to change sample key? I use cubase. Thanks guys and have a good day... |
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