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Psychedelic Trance Family Values
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Nov 27, 2004 08:16
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So. This seems to be a bit of a time of transition in the NY trance scene. There seem to be a lot of disagreeement beteween people, a lot of arguing about the issue of drugs. President Bush just got re-elected.
This could be the beginning of some very difficult times for us. If we want to survive them, or better yet avert difficult times, I think we need to have a discussion about if we, as a scene, a community, a subculture, have any sort of core values/ethics. What is it that you value? Do you feel that trance, psychedelics, or the two together have influenced your values/ideals?
My point is, are we a culture which has a distinct set of values?
In my view, there is a certain ethic/outlook which seems common to trancers although I would be hard-pressed to describe it in precise terms. In order to survive in this era of four more years of Bush and Evangelical Christian values running the USA, we need to figure out what our values are and provide a positive alternative to the forces that have the upper hand at this moment.
So here are my questions to you all
1) What do you value most about what we have here?
2) What do you think the biggest problem facing our scene is at this time?
3) What (if any) is the appropriate way to use psychedelic drugs?
4) Are there some drugs in particular that you would not like to see in the scene?
5) When there are disagreements between people in the scene, how should they be delt with?
6) To what extent do you have a responsibility to look out for the safety of the person next to you on the dance floor?
7) If someone overdoses or has some other foolish, preventalbe accident at a party, or in general goes off the deep end, is the community as a whole in some way responsible?
8) How emotionally close do we want to be with fellow scenesters? Is a party the place to work out ones problems?
9) What do we do when someone goes of the deep end?
10) How can (or should) the trance community be involved with the rest of society? Do we want to keep to ourselves or do we want to use the energy our our scene to try and bring light to the rest of the world?
Am I forgetting anything?
-James |
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Liquid-Vision
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
660
Posted : Nov 27, 2004 14:46
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1)Its lack of commerciality
2)People trying to commercialize it
3)Their are many appropriate ways to use psychedelic drugs, from IVing 5-Meo-DMT at a homesetting, to sublingual LSD to help spend the next 6-8 hours at a party in psychedelic harmony
4)Coke, speed
5)does this not happen everyday?2 people should find a way to solve their problems amongst themselves, the "scene"shouldn't have anything to do with it
6)it depends on who that person is?
7)Sometimes(rarely), but usually no
8)Nobody can make boundaries on how emotionally close you can be with anyone, thats something that comes naturally and is something an individual must figure out for himself
9)Try to get him back in shallow watter, but some people seemed to be destined to drown 
10)Fuck the rest of society, dont try to make our scene bigger because not everyone has as noble intentions as you. I'm not saying the trance scene is better than any other scene, but commerciality has a formula for quick destruction
 We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love... and then we return home. |
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BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : Nov 28, 2004 07:13
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some nice , philosophical questions.
1. an underground place to meet like minds, and let all my energy out.
2. lack of appreciation. promoters losing money. Dark/trauma trance is eclipsing psy-trance, and dividing our tiny scene down the middle.
3. to undersand the right dosage to enjoy the music and interact respectfully with others - walking the fine line between "cosmic" and "common sense"gracefuly.
of course it's okay to trip out at parties. that's what they're for!
4. beer sponsorships. ecstasy overdoses.
5. respectfully
6. as much as you, safely can.
7. no
8. i hope that intelligent music would attract an
intelligent crowd - and we could be close. but i don't know how it goes in NYC.
9. this is always difficult, but usually someone is tough or experienced enougn to deal with it.
10. i thinks trancers have an obligation to live
well, successfully, and happily - and face the straight community with a respectable image, while retianing radical/freak values. if we lose the
intelligence, sophistication, and spiritual edge..
than we are nothing more than a Death MEtal
or Disco like drug cult.
The psytrance life is about being a winner.. knowing more than how to 'take care' of yourself - but to thrive/prosper/accelerate/ and celebrate!
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psyev
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
7
Posted : Nov 28, 2004 10:09
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I have been seeing alot of these kind of posts and it has begun to now actualy concern me.
Psy Trance is probably something different for everyone, more so now then ever, because there is a lot more people and styles that exist. Learn and take from the music what you really want out of life.
And on the topic of drugs it is simple. They are good and they are bad.
Drugs can be good in order to set a certain mood in motion that you wish to have at a certain moment, these moods can be really good if you plan on trying to experiance different planes of exsistence and think about what you could possibly learn from that experiance(such as seeing or feeling sounds).
They are bad because if you are at a party to meet new people and enjoy the company of other intellegent people you are not going to be yourself so the interactions with others will not be pure.
So you make a sacrifice with any drug be it pot, alcohol, lsd, whatever. If people can understand this; drug use I would hope would be decreased to a minimun usage. |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Nov 29, 2004 17:52
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>>>I have been seeing alot of these kind of posts and it has begun to now actualy concern me.
<<<<
What kind of posts? Do you mean posts that label drugs as good or bad, or the whole idea of discussing the topic or what?
>>>And on the topic of drugs it is simple. They are good and they are bad<<<
You are right that they are both good and bad, but I think your wrong about that being a simple answer. Then when's and why's of the good and bad are very complicated and different for everyone. Obviously everyone is not going to agree, nor would that be desirable. I do think it is important to discuss/debate the issue though, if only to help people clarify their own ideas by being forced to articulate and argue them.
And thanks to those that answered my questions.
Here are my answers to my questions:
1) It's about the only sector of society I can stand.
2) People not being able to find ways to discuss disagreements in a way that is open, direct, honest and respectful.
3) When your heart tells you that now is the time.
4) Meth is the one that worries me the most although I would not be happy to hear about cocaine and opiates in the scene, or if alcohol went above the moderate use I see now. Of course its none of my bussiness what other people do but I cant help having preferences and opinions.
5) Disagreements need to be discussed openly, and respectfully. It is OK to disagree, but there should be discussion so that peoples stand on various issues is known. Disagreement should be used to enrich us by making us look at different points of view. Also, people should avoid being petty or meanspirited so as to avoid pointless disagreements. And of course if you think your wrong, admit it instead of trying to hold your pride!
6) To the extent that I can do so without imposing on their freedom. For example if I see someone about to take a drug combo that I know to be dangerous, I should try to warn them, but not intervene to stop them if they choose not to listen.
7) Yes. We are a community and if someone gets all fucked up, even if no one person is responsible except for the person who got all fucked up, as a community we should ask ourselves if there were any earlier signs that we failed to pay attention to or anything we could of done but did not to avert the situation. Of course it is sometimes inevitable, but on the other had I think community can do help people before they reach the point of no return.
8) I think emotional closeness is a worthy goal, and that more small gatherings might help. I think there is lots of healing energy here that should not go to waste.
9) Try to learn for the future so that we can avoid going off the deep end ourselves. We should never, ever forget that it could happen to any of us.
10) I would like to see trancers get more involved as a social-political force in mainstream society. It might be good to start out by doing things that will give the public a good view of us, basically have a trance organization that does the kind of work churches do (such as charity, tutoring, etc) Basically, a Psy-Trance community organization would be a cool thing, I think. |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 17:21
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Dont mean to be annoying by bumping my failed thread, but I'm just itching to post these lyrics that are stuck in my head as so relevent to where we are now and what I think needs to happen. I thought starting a whole new thread would be even more annoying. So anyway..
How's this for values?
"We Can Be Together" By Jefferson Airplane
We can be together
Ah you and me
We should be together
We are all outlaws in the eyes of america
In order to survive we steal cheat lie forge fuck hide and deal
We are obscene lawless hideous dangerous dirty violent and young
But we should be together
Come on all you people standing around
Our life’s too fine to let it die and
We can be together
All your private property is
Target for your enemy
And your enemy is
We
We are forces of chaos and anarchy
Everything they say we are we are
And we are very
Proud of ourselves
Up against the wall
Up against the wall motherfucker
Tear down the walls
Tear down the walls
Come on now together
Get it on together
Everybody together
We should be together
We should be together my friends
We can be together
We will be
We must begin here and now
A new continent of earth and fire
Come on now gettin higher and higher
Tear down the walls
Tear down the walls
Tear down the walls
Won’t you try |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 23:19
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1) we have an important tool for
a)catharsis
b)healing
c)reclaiming our minds from societal brainwashing and mind control...
2) Splitting into peices based on artistic aesthetics and friendship groups. conformity and the herd mentality are always a threat to any human endeavor...
3) This is up to the individual. I like to use them respectfully so they don't bite me in the ass. I like to use large quantities when doing any at all so there's that...
4) Sure- i'm not so keen on uppers, heroin, etc... but who fucking cares!? thats individuals choices. some people are great on speed. not me. I dont know very many responsible tweakers but this hippy holier than thou shit has to stop...
5) dialogue. i think its important to maintain the regularity of the scene through frequent parties or at least get-togethers and potluck dinners so you HAVE a social fabric you can use in conflict resolution. No one can fuck over their friends for long without people finding out...
6) to the extent that you are human you shall need to care for your fellow humans. a party is a community of willing participants- this is different than a nightclub- still organizers should have EMT's or other trip-friendly ground crew types...
7) The communitiy as a whole cannot have any accountability- organizers can and often suffer for this- individual human endpoints can be pinned down- while a community cannot. yet another reason why organizing events is a chore... support your local organizers...
8) I am close with my trance friends. San Francisco used to have super tight community- now its less so but we are still fairly community oriented...
9) Try to communicate calm chilled out vibes. Try to understand what they want and help them meet their needs. do they want water? give them some. do they want to talk to the friend they came with? find them. above all- don't panic them- relax them...
and don't talk too fucking much to them either...
10) the trance scene is a segment of society. while we may be the weirdo misfits, we reflect society at large. we have two orientations as a scene, as i see it:
the first is towards our own scene- and developing the culture and art to higher levels.
the second is towards our eventual and inevitable colonization of society at large-
its like some kinda religion where we recruit:) |
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 00:15
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I actually think alcohol is the most dangerous drug especially coupled with commercialization. I think most psyheads are smart enough to not get to stupid with harder drugs but alcohol could easily slither its way in just from the standpoint of it being accepted at large. Being drunk has to be the farthest thing from a pyschedelic experience i can think off. |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 00:24
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I completely agree with you. alcohol is a depressant.
but you'd be surprised how many psyheads love to get their drink on. |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 07:05
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Someone that has truly understood what the psychedelic experience is about (and more importantly not forgotten it), will never feel the need for alcohol inebriation again. I haven't gotten drunk (even a bit) in years, and feel absolutely no need for it. (Granted, I did feel a bit tipsy after eating possibly spoiled grapes this summer, but that could have been more due to the acid).
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 08:08
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Furthur:
I've seen many MEga-psychedelic artists... people who *intimately* understand deep psychedelic and know how to share it with the world...on stage with a Beer or Rum-n-Coke in one hand, and the other hand on the knobs
so don't knock it too hard 
PERSONALLY, i'm really oversensitive to most drugs (except for hallucinogens) and they leave me feeling rotten the next day.. especially mdma and alcohol
--------
p.s.
i've also seen a "very respected" artist pay attention to skinning up and smoking charas... like at least 6 or 7 spilffs during a 2 hour set... more than the mixing... but it seemed very very natural and second nature to the guy, and didn't affect his performance TOO much... it was actually very funny |
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 09:17
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1. every experience is valuable, and every drug is psychoactive.
2. do what makes you feel good and doesn't fuck up those around you.
3. don't judge others for doing the same thing.
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." -William Blake.
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 14:44
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well i wasnt talking in general about alcohol just at a pys event. I still love to get drunk on occasion. It just seems from what i have read of other countries where alot of alcohol is involved the parties become more like freak dance parties than psychedelic events.
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 00:53
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>>the trance scene is a segment of society. while we may be the weirdo misfits, we reflect society at large. we have two orientations as a scene, as i see it:
the first is towards our own scene- and developing the culture and art to higher levels.
the second is towards our eventual and inevitable colonization of society at large-
its like some kinda religion where we recruit:)<<<
I think that is a really interesting point about colonialist attitudes in the trance scene. I suppose I am a bit of a "trance colonialist" in that I am constantly try to spread the good news about psychedelics and psychedelic trance. I definatly have as a goal in life trying to influence society (in my own little way of course) so that psychedelic spiritualism (my sacred music) becomes a more accepted path in life. So what I want might be considered a kind of spirtual colonialism because ultimately what I want is to reach the conservative christian red states and try to convert them away from intolerence, dualistic "good vs evil" thinking, morality without ethics, convert them to reverence for the forces of nature and the universe, the god within, ethics from our hearts rather than dictated by books. So that is colonialism because it means trying to convince people, overtly or subliminaly, to put down their bibles (or Torahs, Korans, Satanic Bibles, whatever books people are addicted to) and eat some magic plants and dance to trance. Of course we are small and they are so big, but Cortes took down the whole Aztec empire with a few hundred men through political manuvering... Im rambling now but is that what you meant by having a goal the colonization of society at large. Even though I say that's my goal, Im not so sure I would be happy once the trancers have colonized everything. We probably are better off working on perfecting our community, But colonialism is almost irresistable to me. Its just that I want to work on the side of the colonized help the colonizers colonize the colonialists.
Also on the point of colonialism by the trance scene, I had thought of that issue before, but in a much different way than described above. My thought was about the Ohm symbol (and Native American imagary, or imagary from any tradition that is part of party deco). My thought was this: that perhaps our use of those symbols is a kind of colonization of peoples identities and symbols. For example I know that many native americans are bothered by white people who give themselves indian sounding names like "red cloud", run swats and other shamanic proceedures etc. Are serious Hindus bothered by the use of the Ohm? Are we at all being colonial towards the very cultures that we respect and mean to honor by using their symbols? What of the fact that the Goa trance scene started in Goa, a Portuguese colony as late as the 1960's and center for foreign tourists (are tourists a kind of colonist?).
Many thanks to all who have taken the time to respond to my questions!
Respect! |
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
314
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 08:56
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Hey! the psy-trance crowd is quite diverse, especially in the US. We're a rag-tag bunch of explorers or music and have discovered this little niche in electronic music. Regarding the trance community, or any other community, I don't necessarly want nor have the time to be close with lots of people. On the other hand I know lots of people who arent necessarily close to me, and certainly share with them. Like any community, hopefully there's a net excess of givers rather than takers.
Practical advice: People should take the time to say hi to their other party goers, especially the ones you don't know or haven't seen before. So you're dancing for hours on your favorite piece of dancefloor, the people around you have been dacning there for hours too. Say hi. I've noticed that most people DON'T.
Etheogenic substances have the capacity to create peak experiences; reflections that expand my set of cognitive assumptions. Frankly, using entheogens, I can have a peak experience in other circumstances, straight up techno, Jazz, Nusrat Fatah Khan, and, especially, the subway...
I will say that the effect of hearing psytrance for the first time has entheogenic properties, and this can continue for some time but usually subsides as the discriminating musical connissior [sic] starts to settle in. then you think, "not again..."
Hindu imagery in event art is certainly a nod to the goa roots but i would say more advanced art tends to use a more twisted set of symbols, for example, mixing aztec and alien. The general theme being a sense of universality and the historical context/conjecture (did alien intelligence assist the egyptians?...) Sidenote: Goa has a lot of catholics.
Nothing like having a muscle relaxant (aka beer) while fiddling with the knobs you know. I don't have a problem with drugs, however I think irresponsible use does contribute to the destruction of vibe. I think friends should watch over each other, at least it's more practical. You really can't tell till it's too late unless you know that person personally and have a sense of their consumption. But, If one of my friends wants to take a bunch of acid then strip all their clothes off, this is a rite of passage for people with certain mental fixations, let them be, until the club security gets to them.
Oh and by being a diverse group, not all of us are students, backpackers, yoga teachers, blah blah. We're already out in society trying to make a dent.
The biggest problem is rampant piracy.
peace,
dz |
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