Psybass problem

On 2009-12-01 14:06, mquirk1 wrote:
when people think of a sick bass, generally what they are hearing is the kick AND the bass, working together. like you might be thinking 'yeah this track has a sick bassline", but then if you changed the kick sound suddenly the bass would sound feeble or a bit lame. so 50% of getting a good bass sound, is choosing the right kick for it. the other 50% of course being actually synthesizing the bass

forget layering multiple sounds l/r and all that shit, that just serves to weaken the sound and fuck up stuff with weird phasing and filtering etc. mono = power. keep it simple, one osc, mono signal, low cut and hi cut.

my fav synth for bass is Cronox2, this is the sound i get out of it:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vzmcuo

it sounds good because the kick+bass fit, if i had a deeper more thump sound kick tho it wouldn't sound so good

On 2009-12-01 16:09, APriest wrote:
etnie12, i've problems similar to yours, it's about 2 years that i'm on basslines (i'm lazy), tried everything, read all the 98 pages of the mother of all basslines thread, i know the http://www.dancemidisamples.com/psytrance-bass-tutorial.html too, I KNOW ALL but i'm not satisfied.
I tried (not much, lazy) everything, using every synth, effects, music theory, calculating with the spreadsheet ...
I want pro basslines, not semi-pro basslines..... perhaps i must try again and again, perhaps the problem is that i'm for theory and don't try enough, i'm phisically lazy.

On 2009-12-01 21:38, aciduss wrote:
Maybe you are already there but you insist in copying someone else bass.

I have also read 98 pages of bassline thread, have asked a lot of amateur and pros on the subject, also testes several softsynths, have seen lots of tutorials, have loaded hundreds of pro songs into software to analyze waveform and man i can tell u do feel i'm getting there.

I still have lots to polish but i feel better with each bassline i create. I can tell u it is not a single thing that makes ur bass pro sounding but there are sum stuff that i find critical for a nice bass.

1.- First of all keep it simple, you need a nice bass saw wave and snappy envelopes. In my software experience best are: cronox2, pentagon, trilogy, sylenth1. There must be other hundred synths capable of good psybass but i find these to be the most reliable in my personal arsenal.

2.- Find or create a nice punchy kick psy like... do not eq it too much just have a nice kick! im sure you have tons, just pick one kick you like.

3.- Create your pattern with smaller than 16th notes and create nice accentuation with velocity. Simple patterns work great for trance.

4.- Bass patch should be short n snappy... enough amp decay to sound but no sustain almost, and just enough release for it not to artifact. Most important part of bass patch is the FILTER ENVELOPE. You want to have a very small decay value and sustain also very low, just enough to give edge to the sound (i like 12db filters best). Sometimes you need to use SHIFT or ALT key (depends on the synth) to fine turn that knob (read manual). Play with ENV MOD, Cutoff and filter env decay those 3 parameters should give you the "pro" bass timber if you craft them carefully.

All this on a retriggered mono saw osc. Sine / pulse wave can come in second osc but it is not always needed and just add it in very low level it is just to add sum rumble to it.

5.- EQ on kick as you like, make it match the bass click and maybe notch here and there to shape a little next to the bass sounds, constantly mute and unmute bass / kick to check on coherence.

6.- EQ on bass is hard to get but i have find for psy bass you just have to take away the low mids (200-500hz) i don't want to give numbers because it depends on bass timber and tone but just make sure the bass sounds on the bass area try to get that annoying low-mid freq equed. Take away some highs too. I also high pass (using other eq unit, sonnox eq, mostly) everything under 30hz goes away. All this makes the bass feel "cleaner" less buzzy and in right place with the kick.

7.- Do not add any compression yet, nor sidechain. Get your kick n bass combo to fucking work just by themselves if they dont, then change the kick or the bass (usually i work the bass patch a lot more than the kick) just remember that every millisecond counts... work on those decay times and cutoff / envelope ammount. This is very delicate area think of it as the bass clitoris, too little wont make a difference, too much you will end with a clickery bass (sum times that's ok for elektro kinda vibe open up decay a lot moar)... but the exact filter env settings will make short notes to sound pretty edgy, pumpy and well standard industry sounding = proish.

8.- Once you have a nice rolling bass it is time to beef it up... on the bass signal you can have stuff like quadrafuzz, bbe, maxxbass, blah blah... distortion or bass enhacement. Just do not over do it, you don't need your room to rumble to feel the bass... make it sound pumpy and clean... loudness shall come laterz on.

9.- Ok now that both kick n bass are in place now you can sidechain and add that pumping to your sound just, again, do not overdo it so you can feel the rollness of kbbb still going on.

10.- Now for the last but not the least, group both of the signals into a group channel and apply EQ to both, you can also add a little distortion, or compression... i like sonnox inflator for this stage.

Try to get your group to peak under -10 to -8db so you leave enough headroom for everything else.

Ok so again, i ain't pro but i feel my bass improves everyday and my technique comes from a lot of reading and asking... i have seen a couple of pro's working with the same tools and i can asure you there is no magic tool...

Aslo analyze some of the so called "pro" tracks.. not all have that superior quality... i have now laughed at some basslines that i considered to be superb before...

Work a lot on the EQ but don't work blindly use a spectrum analyzer to really notch on the exact spot where you want to lower the annoying frequencies (ringing harmonics).

Do not overcomplicate yourself trying to sample, multilayer, and add fx to bassline... simple is best and the perfect kicknbass combo is just about making the bass feel like a repetition of the kick... tune them both right, get those envelopes exact and always analyze your resulting wave, compare it to your favorite tracks... what is lacking? what is missing?

I'm sure if you have gone through all of what you say you are already have an almost "pro" bass maybe you just don't know it or are too focused trying to mimic another person bassline which you won't ever get exactly the same.

hope it helps.

PS. This is my personal way of doing it, i share it because i'd like to help if you find it useful is ok if you do it different way is ok too... but i find some details in this text that took me years to learn, those can really make the diff.