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Observation on Psyshop & Saiko Sounds Top 10
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clown
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 24, 2005 20:26
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Krell : I think that Seth gave more than enough proof that the top 10's are rigged.. I don't think it would have been appropriate for him to post up how much it would cost to get on the top 10 list, so he explaind the situation while staying as objective as possible..
Maybe its not complete BS though.. maybe some sort of sales are reflected in these charts.. and honestly, if i was saikosounds and someone wrote to me inquiering about this, even if they were rigged i would not tell someone this.. "ooh yeah, our charts are total crap.. you can pay to get higher on the charts".. hehe.. that would not reflect professionalism at all..
I guess we will just have to trust our gut-feelings about this.. and in no way does it mean the store rips people off nor will it change me from ordering from them.. 
  "VA - REWIRED" OUT NOW !! (techtrance invasion) ---> http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/86303/forum/9
http://psy.techno.fm <------- Jester Records's Internet Radio channel
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 24, 2005 20:58
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@Clown
Not proof that would hold up in court. Its just heresay really.
The thing is also, that depending on your viewpoint and understanding of any kind of business, you might get to assume too much.
Ive experienced that many times in a company I worked at - People would often be very paranoid as to the sincerity of the information you would give them, often pointing out alternative motives they themselves made up.
Therefore I think its important to really document these things, and to confront whatever business it concerns directly instead of fueling different kinds of theories.
I would not put it past the general CD buying crowd that they will go for whatever is suggested to them in adds etc.
If in fact there is tampering going on, it seems really stupid to put ones crediblity on the line for what must be negligable profits.
Conclusions should be based on facts, not assumptions.
Breaking whatever affiliate program psyshop.com has resulting instantly in ones position as #1 to decrease to not even being in the chart is very strange yes (if it is true that the sales figures for psyshop.com are still the same).
We dont have the sales figures though. Im wondering if this statement from Sethspun is based on Spuns general sales, or in fact how much was sold thru psyshop.com ?
Because if they are based on what was sold thru psyshop.com it would mean that all the other CDs on the chart would be outselling older releases, in other words - people would to be buying more CDs than before (which also seems unlikely)
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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506
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5388
Posted : Oct 24, 2005 21:02
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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1114
Posted : Oct 24, 2005 21:28
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DETOX
Moderator
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296
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6194
Posted : Oct 24, 2005 23:26
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Just dont pay much attention to the top ten's on the internet shops.
Spending your time on reading reviews from cd's that seem interesting to you will prove much more useful
Lately though even finding an objective review is quiet a hard task....
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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s0ft
IsraTrance Junior Member
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825
Posted : Oct 24, 2005 23:29
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1114
Posted : Oct 24, 2005 23:57
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@Detox
Best way to find good music is to listen to it Sad that clips on pages are often not the whole tracks.
@s0ft
You have a good point there I dont care either
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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787
Posted : Oct 25, 2005 01:44
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Maybe ppl who shop at psyshop are less independant thinkers and are more strongly influenced by the ads than ppl who goto saikosounds? Couldnt that account for the difference as easily as a Payola scheme?
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karmakanik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
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658
Posted : Oct 25, 2005 18:07
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frankly, i don't give much credence to the accusation that the charts are "rigged".
the bottom line is that the vast majority of best selling albums are the ones that are most heavily advertised. people here seem to think this implies that the labels are in cahoots with the shop, i.e. that by buying advertisements, the shop agrees to further hype the release by putting it a top the charts.
on the contrary, i think this is a perfectly logical outcome. i would find it much more surprising if the heavily advertised cd's were NOT the best selling ones! after all, the point of advertising is to increase sales. if the labels buying advertising did not see an increase in sales, they would probably stop buying ads!
and as for sethspun's comments, of course the spun releases dropped heavily on the psyshop charts for two reasons: 1) spun was no longer buying ads on the site, and 2) spun was no longer exclusively sold in the EU on psyshop, therefore people could buy those albums on other shops, which would decrease spun's chart position on psyshop's site without decreasing overall sales. |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 25, 2005 18:37
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-25 18:07, karmakanik wrote:
and as for sethspun's comments, of course the spun releases dropped heavily on the psyshop charts for two reasons: 1) spun was no longer buying ads on the site, and 2) spun was no longer exclusively sold in the EU on psyshop, therefore people could buy those albums on other shops, which would decrease spun's chart position on psyshop's site without decreasing overall sales.
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Good points there I think.
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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clown
IsraTrance Full Member
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1777
Posted : Oct 26, 2005 06:19
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nem@oxygen
IsraTrance Junior Member
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85
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 13:32
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full_lotus
IsraTrance Junior Member
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562
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 14:38
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Chaos Unlimited Top 10 is based on sales, that is for certain  Dunno about Saiko or Psyshop though
Turn On, Tune In, Trance Out!!!
http://www.psymusic.co.uk |
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dj jaimz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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115
Posted : Oct 28, 2005 03:00
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Saiko Sounds' Top Ten is based on actual sales figures. There is no weighting or other methods of influence on the figures. However we do NOT count wholesale orders (ie, large shipments sent to stores and distributors) in our top tens, only consumer-level sales. This is because there are some releases which we distribute more than others, and so obviously the top tens would be biased towards those releases.
From Seth's description of his drop in position on Psyshop's Top Ten it's possible they are factoring in their wholesales into their Top Tens. Which is fine, it just shows a different aspect to their top ten. Or perhaps they're not counting wholesales, and the drop in sales through Psyshop of Spun's releases might simply because Psyshop promote other releases (who are paying for more advertising) over Spun's.
Anyway, as for mechanics, I can only speak of Saiko Sounds' Top Ten, and I can promise you it's not in any way rigged. Also I might mention it would probably be more trouble than it's worth to actually rig the top tens, so I suspect that it's just a matter of perception.
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
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1151
Posted : Oct 28, 2005 08:38
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thanks for statement jaimz.
but there is another manipulating factor. do you count the tops weekly? this would underrate high selling cds over a long period or do you count it quartaly, this would underrate high selling cds in a short time.
I am asking because I know that in the pop-charts they count it weekly and some acts have more pole positions as other acts which sold more cds but in a longer period. this effect is generating a diffused and uncorrect overview over the market.
how do you manage this effect?
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