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new equipment - opinion please
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sly
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
183
Posted : Mar 23, 2009 20:40:30
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hi there, i'm going to describe my situation quite detailed. i think there are many good solutions but noet everyone needs the same. if you are intersted giving me advices i guess it's good to know what i exactly need. if you get bored you can go to my questions at the bottom directly...
after a break of some years i start a new approach with djing more seriously. this also means new gear. i'd appreciate if you share your experiences and opinions about. i ask cause i couldn't collect enough practical know-how about modern djing.
over 10 years ago i started djing with vinyl. mixing detroit i bought a 3th turntable and went more into turntabelism stuff. somewhen i spend less and less time djing. maybe cause my music was too freaky for clubs and simply not good enough for real turntabelism. and to buy vinyl all the time was bad for my finances...
later i bought rane's serato scratch (was quite new then) and was very happy to mix mp3's like vinyl (i really got used to turntables and cd's were no alternative for me). i used it occasionally and not very ambitious.
while disregarding djing more or less i spent a lot of time with producing on logic. not a very long time ago i decided to make the first steps performing live. for this purpose ableton is much better than logic imo. that's why i discovered djing with ableton and i was impressed...
first i wanted to use the sl-box as interface for ableton but then i saw that rane wasn't able to bring out a core audio driver (and windows is no alternative either  ). anyways, the sl interface only has 2 outputs altough the quality is top notch. using an other interface with serato is not possible either cause the sl-box works as dongle too. and yes, i have an other soundcard but this one is needed else.
i thought about selling my turntables and scratch live, buying a midi controller and a good interface for ableton. actually this would cover my needs almost completly. but the old fashioned dj's here will understand: it just breaks my heart to give away my turntables and to fully abstain from the vinyl feeling. also i love to scratch around for fun sometimes...
so i decided to exchange the sl-box with torq or mixvibes.
http://www.torq-dj.com/product_details.php?PID=5a1beba47e5eebf90fc4bd7b9d29beb7
http://www.mixvibes.com/site/pageeng/page.php?x=mv7crosspack
problem is the interface as well. i guess they are both not what i want. but compared to serato they are no dongles, meaning it should be possible to use the software and vinyls with an other appropriate interface that works with timecode.
sure i forgot traktor, which is the best by far. but it's too expensive and i just want to use the turntables at home or with friends. also i'm convinced from ableton and i think it would be almost too much together with traktor...
now i will buy a controller for ableton. to be honest i have no experience with such machines. tips are very welcome here. most important is to use it as controller for djing, live act and the combination of both. i guess this won't be a problem with live...
i got caught by this one yet:
http://www.akaipro.com/apc40
has anybody tried out already?
alternatively i could by this mixer second-hand for a very good price:
http://www.eclerdjdivision.com/productCont.php?ap=2⊂=1&id=3〈=
does anybody has experience with it? i do not trust the midi-controls but for the integration of different sources it seems perfect.
to become more concrete:
wich audio interface is recommended using intel-mac with ableton for djing?
what are your experiences with different midi-controllers concerning ableton? how much would you spend?
does anyone has experience with a all in one (midi) mixers like the nuo? or can anyone even compare it to regular midi-boxes?
does a dj-software like serato exists which comes with a good interface that has more than 3 outs and can be used with ableton? or does a good audio-interface exists that works with vinyl timecode and can be used with torq or something?
and this message about the collaboration between ssl and ableton made me hesistate a bit with selling serato. honestly, i don't trust them bringing a good solution in acceptable time. there's not accidentally someone here with a bit of insider knowledge who could tell me what they plan to do?
last but not least: is it possible to use ableton with vinyl-supporting software simultaneously? i tried out serato --> sl-box --> dj-mixer, ableton --> firewire-soundcard --> dj-mixer. that works but it's no future solution. i need my soundcard else and the whole setup is not stable at all. what i mean is something like using the same interface. could that work at all? it's not very important cause i don't need the vinyls to perform, i just can't live without them...
thanks a lot for taking your time and giving some advice.
peace
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sly
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
183
Posted : Mar 24, 2009 17:16
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no tips needed anymore. thanks anywayz. testet a bunch of gear today and figured out. changed my mind about traktor. traktor scratch pro together with ableton and a decent controller is just superb. that's future djing if you ask me 
by the way, torq and mixvibes are nothing compared to traktor. and the nuo4 is a nice mixer but has an awful midi section.
now everything is clearer than before when browsing on the net a lot of stuff i didn't really know.
boom |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 24, 2009 21:12
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Hiya!
I am in a similar situation.
I have been mixing CD's for YEARS now, altho i started on vinyl.
So have started getting bored with CD's, so got myself a pair of Vestax PDX 2000's.
My original idea was just to get into truntablism....scratching etc.
Then like you, from producing a bit, the Ableton DJing technique has come into play.
I wanted Serato but heard that they are colaborating with Ableton to bring out a product together.
So i will wait for this before i make my purchase.
In the meantime, I have setup Deckadance (DJing software) and gotten a pair of Timecoded vinyls.
If you have an External Sound Card, you can hook it up to work like Serato. (Poor mans version....Thanks to X-Rays).
Its not as good obviously, but it will allow me to work on this technique without having to buy Serato just yet.
I would like to be able to manipulate the audio using my turntables as well as a controller in Ableton.
It will probably take a year or so before this new product is available.
Check out the thread here in the DJing section about this.
http://forum.isratrance.com/serato-ableton-live/
 Beartrap - SA
WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 24, 2009 21:14
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-24 17:16, sly wrote:
no tips needed anymore. thanks anywayz. testet a bunch of gear today and figured out. changed my mind about traktor. traktor scratch pro together with ableton and a decent controller is just superb. that's future djing if you ask me
by the way, torq and mixvibes are nothing compared to traktor. and the nuo4 is a nice mixer but has an awful midi section.
now everything is clearer than before when browsing on the net a lot of stuff i didn't really know.
boom
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Yeah?
Post some information here that you found out about Traktor Pro.
Why will it be better than the rest?
Thanks!!!!
Beartrap - SA
WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk |
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sly
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
183
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 01:10
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first traktor was unstable everyone said. but the new traktor pro simply plays in a complete different league than serato.
serato: it's just like mixing vinyls with two desks. some visual support, simple cue- and loop-functions. that's it basically. it has a high quality interface that works as dongel as well. meaning you can't use serato with other interfaces, other way around the same: the interface only works with serato and can't be used as external soundcard. o.k. i have mac and there are some asio drivers, maybe it works with windows. even then you are limited to 2 outputs. finito.
traktor: high quality interface with 4 in and outputs. can be used as soundcard for live performance or production with apps of your choice. no need to wait for serato/ableton cause it already works with traktor by internal sync. just route ableton tracks to one of the 4 (not 2 like serato) decks and control it with vinyl, cd, midi, mouse. anywayz, for turntabelism traktor is also better now, serato often fucks up scrtaches and stuff. and if lazy traktor syncs perfect for you. i almost dj a perfect minimal set without headphones and only one output! meaning everyone could do. (nightpsy is more tricky without mixer and headphones ) you can play 4 tracks perfectly synced together at the same time even your live stuff from ableton. also the looping function is much more precise than serato's. and of course traktor comes with a bunch of cool fx that are really made for djing/live. they can be routed and controlled very flexible. yeah fuck, serato doesn't even support midi. if a controller is needed you have to buy some strange brand. with traktor you can use almost every midi-device.
traktor's surface is very easy to use, individually adjustable and offers way more options than serato. i.e just change between phono or line on your screen if using real vinyl and timecode stuff. with serato u can deal with plugs each time... and there are so many little things i always missed, no problem with traktor anymore.
i could write a book about the advantages of traktor they are uncountable. and i don't work for native, this product is just killer. and honestly, serato is a very poor toy in comparision. if they have traktors options in some years you can be happy.
conclusion: djing with 2 decks, being bound to one software and no other use for the interface OR a almost complete performance solution for producers/live-acts/dj's that is compatible with a lot of other gear.
serato gets one plus: it never crashed. by the way, i haven't sold yet. do you want it? 
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sly
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
183
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 01:20
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one thing or two:
i would stay with the audiocard-timecode-plugin-solution than buying torq, mixvibes or whatever. the vinyl-control is worse than seratos and the interfaces are junk.
maybe nice to know: traktor and serato are on the same price. serato just exists as bundle (logically, there's no other use anywayz) but the traktor audio8dj-interface can be purchased alone for about 2/3 of the package price. it can be used with other dj-softwares (except serato of course) as well. and the traktor software can be tried out before buying  |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 11:00
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hey sly..
serato can be used as audio interface - meaning u can use sl-box with ableton.. At least on pc..
Would u like to repeat that perfect minimal set using your traktor so u can play on 4 channels without headphones, pressing buttons on your MIDI controller/synth/whatever, adding bunch of FX, and in the same time mix your live set from ableton?
I will use nothing but 2 turntables, mixer with FX, headphones and serato and some minimal techno tracks and we can have a mix battle..
And than we can let people here decide is that future of dj-ing u have under your hands better than an old fashion way of mixing like it was for more than 30 years..
Do u accept the challenge?
Im asking u this just so that u dont make some fullish thing and abandon that vinyl feel.. I dont have as much DJ experience as you, and I dont mix minimal usually but if I win maybe I change your mind.. I had same battle like this with guy whos using traktor, pressing buttons and stuff.. Eventually he pulled out his old decks..
"Limitations" on serato are actually there just to keep u locked on that vinyl feel..
All these midi stuff, bpm sync, mixing with a touch of a button are really not improvements..
U cant make better something thats already perfect, thats why technics didnt changed their turntables for all these years..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 16:48
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 17:41
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Well than I dont get whats wrong with serato, cause u can mix traditionally, play live, and remix on the fly, but u cant do that all at the same time..
If u wont that in same time with serato u need extra card like Sly said..
What Im expecting from serato/ableton integration is to be able to scratch my loops in ableton with vinyl.. As much as I know u cant do that with traktor and if that will ever be possible its gonna be serato which will make that happen..
I like possibilities of traktor but when I saw 4 tracks synced with a press of a button it was just too much..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 18:13
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OK, Im taking back what I said.. I seen Audio 8 DJ, I seen skate park survival test, I seen it has MIDI connections built in, interface is great!
Only one thing that still bothers me is that sync button, having that is a big temptation, u cant avoid not to use it.. And I just dont want to listen music mixed by a computer, whats the fun in that? Eventually I would get idea to get rid of my TTs like Sly thought.. This is bad, really bad, now I also have idea to switch to traktor and that would probably be big mistake.. Ill explore more about that new traktor..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 19:48
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-25 17:41, x-rayz wrote:
Well than I dont get whats wrong with serato, cause u can mix traditionally, play live, and remix on the fly, but u cant do that all at the same time..
If u wont that in same time with serato u need extra card like Sly said..
What Im expecting from serato/ableton integration is to be able to scratch my loops in ableton with vinyl.. As much as I know u cant do that with traktor and if that will ever be possible its gonna be serato which will make that happen..
I like possibilities of traktor but when I saw 4 tracks synced with a press of a button it was just too much..
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Fair enough
Some won;t like the sync function.
But you don;t need to use it!
I am just asking cuz i am struggling to decide what i want to get!
Serato.....or Traktor.
the more info and user on reviews...the better!
Thanks guys!
Beartrap - SA
WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 19:49
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-25 18:13, x-rayz wrote:
OK, Im taking back what I said.. I seen Audio 8 DJ, I seen skate park survival test, I seen it has MIDI connections built in, interface is great!
Only one thing that still bothers me is that sync button, having that is a big temptation, u cant avoid not to use it.. And I just dont want to listen music mixed by a computer, whats the fun in that? Eventually I would get idea to get rid of my TTs like Sly thought.. This is bad, really bad, now I also have idea to switch to traktor and that would probably be big mistake.. Ill explore more about that new traktor..
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hahahahah....shiiiiit.
Now we in the same boat!
Beartrap - SA
WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 20:35
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-25 19:48, DJSarasin wrote:
Some wont like the sync function.
But you dont need to use it!
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Yeah I dont need to but when its there its just pushing you to press it.. Its like not looking to waveform on serato, I had to force myself not to watch so I set up serato in such a way that I dont need to touch the laptop, I just turn record on other side and next track loads automatically, that gave me option so I can close the lid on my laptop so I dont have view of laptop screen..
Intelligence knows whats good and tells u one thing but tricky mind whispers u other..
Now my mind hooked me up on audio 8 DJ interface.. Good thing is that u can buy only interface without the program..
I have only 2 channels on mixer, that would mean new mixer also = bad thing cause I love my DXM-06..
Were in the same boat bro, its gonna be tricky..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 20:58
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HAHAHAHA sure!
I have a DJM 600....modified the fader to cut the lag time, so i can scratch with it.
I will need to get the Pro X Fade 2.....when it FINALLY comes out! (WTF is up with that?)
Too many toys.....too little money!!!
For scratching, i guess being able to see the waveform is an advantage. (specially if you new to scratching) But for seasoned scratchers....this could be seen as a sellout.
I think these companies are trying to satisfy everyone, so the battle of staying away from the sync button is yours to deal with.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Thanks guys, this has been real informative.
Lets keep it going untill we can decide!
Beartrap - SA
WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Mar 25, 2009 21:18
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