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Music promotion

Mike A
Subra

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : Jan 30, 2011 00:59:44
There was this thread on the music production section:
http://forum.isratrance.com/promotion-status/

I wrote something there, and I think it's probably important enough to be posted here also for discussion.
So here it is (quoting myself):
Quote:

Don't push yourself to others, just publish your own stuff, and if it's good - it will make a good buzz and people will find you.
The real problem is the "good music" part. Listening objectively to your own music and deciding whether it's good or not is an art developed over time. Be able to listen to something you spent the last 6 hours working on and saying "well this sucks" and click delete.
Once you got your own music finished (properly), the way to get the attention of promoters/labels/whatever is NOT by contacting them.
Being a label owner myself, I can testify that 0% (that's zero) of tracks I released on compilations were the result of people contacting me with their tracks.
You see, contacting a label is like hitting on a girl. The more you want us, the less we want you. Totally irrelevant to the actual music. No one would say it, but we label owners like to put on compilations tracks we found ourselves, being sort of like a prize and a showoff of "look how cool I am and what I found".
Your music has to be special of course. Let's say you're making fullon. Fullon has been around for, what? 10 years? It has its stars and celebs, and basically - you have no chance of reaching fame, no matter how good you are. You are standing on the shoulders of giants, and you are much smaller than them. No one will care about the new guy, and only the old guys will get booked (even if you are 100 times better than them).
In every genre, the "stars and celebs" are those who invented the genre. So your only chance is to invent something new, something which has no stars and celebs yet so you can take that spot.
This is of course easier said than done, and inventing something new is extremely hard. No one said being a star is easy.
Connections are also very important.
Lets say there's this artist who wants to release something on my label. He has 2 ways of getting me to hear it - one is so send a link to my email (which I may or may not ignore, and listen unwillfully) or send exactly the same track to some friend of mine, who then forwards it to me with a positive comment. It will increase your chances tenfold. Why? No reason. Just psychologically. Let's say you wanna buy a new washing machine, and when you surf some websites an ad pop ups with a great sale on some washing machines. You will probably ignore it. If you go to some appliace store looking at exactly the same model for the same price, and a friend told you "brand X" is good - you will probably get it. Same thing with music.

Play your music at parties! For starters forget the big festivals and anything abroad. Find some local parties and play. They will most probably want you to play for free. If you can afford playing for free, then ok. Otherwise give them a good reason for them paying you, and be a bit hard to get (like with the girl hitting example earlier). If your music is any good, they will be interested and you will probably be booked again. If no one contacts you, then you're not good enough yet, probably. You may never know who else is at this party, be it a label owner, some bigshot promoter or whatever.

All of this is based on a single thing - GOOD MUSIC! This has to be done. And you're probably thinking "but I hear lots of crap music being released, so what's up with that?". Well, taste is all about personal opinion and the guys releasing that music may not share the same opinion as you. Besides, those guys already have the connections. You still need to form them.



I would like to know if there are any other people who think the same (I'm sure there are, but didn't say anything).
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  53
Posts :  1752
Posted : Jan 30, 2011 01:02
Some good points.

But I do not agree on the "play for free" part. If a party has an entrance the artist should be paid. Simple as that. They do the same job as any other DJ or artists in the party.

And good music is subject to taste and cant really be debated

Last I believe artists should make whatever music they like no matter if it's had it's days or not. After all it's about taste and what you're passionate about. If it's full-on the artist should not start to question if it's the right genre just because someone already made it within the full-on genre. Otherwise why would people today make goa-trance again? See my point?
          www.beatagency.dk
Mike A
Subra

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : Jan 30, 2011 01:06
When saying "if you can afford", I meant that you're swimming in dollars or euros or whatever and don't give a shit about the 100€ they're going to pay you.
You should demand payment, of course.
When you say they can't, then refuse to play. It may be a bit disappointing at first ("oh! I couldn't played in this party!"), but it has advantages.
They will look at your differently next time (or maybe not, who knows).
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  53
Posts :  1752
Posted : Jan 30, 2011 01:08
Another point. Never sell yourself too cheap when getting bookings. If you do it once the rumor spread and it will be very hard to convince a 2nd organizer to pay more.           www.beatagency.dk
Anyer
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  696
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 09:18
Great Advices Guys, Thanks for sharing your more Experienced...Experiences

here in Mexico DJing in The Psychedelic Sector it's pretty Monopolized, also there has been no Culture about Payments and Stuff (90% of Psy DJ'S of the Local Party Circuit are having 0 Payment, only Beers or Drugs...lol) Payment with Beer is Not cool when you Take Care of Buying every single Track you Got in your collection as a DJ, meanwhile, the Best friend of somebody it's Trainwrecking at the big party venue, while the People are screaming of the Exitment of listen to that Sublimeee Trainwreck...

but as Mike Says, nobody starts from the Top.

Thnks for sharing the Wisdom, have a lovely Monday!
          DJ of Sourcecode
www.sourcecode.nu
A&R from Horns and Hoofs Entertainment
www.Hornsandhoofs.com
https://soundcloud.com/anyer_quantum
supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  39
Posts :  1505
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 11:24
Quote:

On 2011-01-30 00:59:44, Mike A wrote:
If your music is any good, they will be interested and you will probably be booked again. If no one contacts you, then you're not good enough yet, probably. You may never know who else is at this party, be it a label owner, some bigshot promoter or whatever.



I don't really agree on this last part. Bookings are rarely done just because of the good music. A lot of bookings are done because of the network of the organisers. They book their friends, not always the best djs around. So creating a network is really important. Go to parties, hand out demo's, talk to party organisers etc. Don't wait for a booking but go after them!           soundcloud.com/supergroover
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 13:32
the amount of times i heard 'you got great music but not exactly our sub-genre we want to promote' cant be counted with fingers even if you use your legs too

60%-70% of my releases are on labels i had no idea who is the people and just sent cd in mail sometimes after short email so they kinda expect it.

its something like hit on girl right.. but that isnt so hard when you look and have the genreal image of nice & succesful you need to be what they looked for all along. just like girls labels are predicted in their demands and usually listen to 4-5 cds they released can pritty much tell you what they like. most like sub-genres but some like also simply good music.

and i have over 60 tracks on cds and just about half of that on ektoplazm. i think i figured atleast some things right about that.

as far booking goes , my best gigs been with organizers who book good music not just friends , we never met before neither i had people to 'talk for me' but the music brought me there very simple. artists like tom cosm still preform and never released on cd just in his own website.
offcourse there is still lots of weight to being friend with org. and be on label that close deals with festivals but its not a rule.           www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
wiseNevil
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  36
Posts :  67
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 18:39
heya guys,

I really want to share my thoughts since we're (me & my brother- wisenevil) currently having this process.

We started to produce music in a proffesional way in the end of 2009, and since then we're working really hard on the promotion side.

Mike, I can agree with most of your points but not with all of them.

I'll devide it to 3 parts.

Singing Tracks OVER Emails - I think especially in nowdays, sending in emails is the only way. nobody have the energy to send a track over the post office, and check if its being receive and wait for an answer- especially when the internet is so central in our days and you got so many ways to communicate- facebook/soundcloud/youtube, and so on...

I also want to share that we currently managed to sign an EP which includes 3 tracks from our upcoming album, and another track in a VA in some australian psytrance label- no connections, no special cds, just emails with our music. and we didnt even release any album yet.

BUT!

I must say- the first times we sent the same music to the labels- nobody respond, in any way.

In my experince the way you introduce your self in the email is what that counts, in our first emails which we sent to like 20 different labels we wrote lots of stuff about us, and the track it self, and guess what? none of those emails got response.

And here I reveal our formula
When I sent short emails - most of them just with this subject- "please listen" and this text- "link to the track" I got much more respones- bad ones and good ones.

I basiclly thinks that all those labels doesnt have time & power to get over all those "spam" music related, thats why you need to do 2 things:
1. be short, dont bullshit, if they like it, they'll get in touch, if not- read point numb #2
2. send twice- for example, send them your first track, after a few weeks, send them your second one- maybe they didnt like the first one, or maybe they missed your email or they couldnt listen at that moment and they forgot and moved on.

so thats regarding the emails issues.

Shows-
In the shows side, its much different, the way I got their attention is by introducing ourselfs nicely, sending them A pictures from our last parties and 2 links of our latest tracks.
sometimes I wrote that we'll play for free for the first time, sometime I didnt and they said it...

most of the times after a few hours I got a respones- again, A good one and a bad one.
Also- I can see from my experince that i surely agree with Mike, I'm spending alot of time in parties, and most of the time I cant understand hows those artists/DJs got on the stand, but the problem in this side, that party orgs put most of the time their friends and artist that play alot.
I have a few examples in my head, but because its a matter of taste and because I dont want to offend anyone, I wont use names

Last part- Music
everyone got a different taste, maybe if this label or that label wont like your music its not sure its not good.
In my experince, first, make sure your music is well mixed, eq & mastered.
before 2-3 years ago when we tried to send our stuff, most of the labels didnt responde, but those who did said the same- "I really like the idea, structure & building but the way its produced I cant put it on CD's."
back then we didnt understand what the fuck is he talking about, but nowdays I surely do

GL to all of us !           - Wise N Evil -
http://www.WISENEVIL.com
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 19:16
Quote:

On 2011-01-31 18:39, wiseNevil wrote:
...Last part- Music...


If you ask me, the music is the first and most important part. Do that and the rest will sort it self out...and I am talking about making music that is good to you.

"Good music" is subjective these days. What is good music to the dark brigade is shite music to the prog brigade and vise versa.
Labels are after a certain sound that is associated with their names. So knowing what labels you send your tunes to, saves you and label A&R, a lot of time.

So after we got part the fuct that good music is subjective, it is important to put things into perspective, i.e. what is the goal for each producer and what kind of promotion one needs to go into, in order to reach that goal.

1) Is it to finally release a track?
2) Is it to travel places without having to pay for anything?
3) Is it to play the big festivals?
4) Is it to travel and pay the bills from releasing/playing psychedelic trance?
5) Is it to make whatever music they want without worrying about what gets released now days?

1 and 2 are easy. If they seem like a distant dream, you haven't been doing it long enough, so just be patient.

3 is harder, and unless you have been making music for ages, you're going to have to pull some connections to reach goal number 3.

4 is the hardest, looking at the "psychedelic trance music industry" some people do make cash, but its the people that were massive back in the '90s, or wrote trance music, without the psy in front, hence they are out of the scope of this conversation.

5 Is the easiest thing to do, you just do it


Speaking for my self, I do not like the idea of promotion. I don't like spamming people with my music, (although I have had my share of shameless plugs in this forum...and others ), its sort of defeating the purpose on putting more time in to make better music and generally I don't think its actually helping me as a person and as a producer, to "big myself up". If people like the music enough, they'll ask for it for their next release/give us a gig.

Simple as that.

Peace out.
          
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  53
Posts :  1752
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 19:21
It's fun to compare today's very competitive promotion focused scene with the scene i started in as an artist.

In 1995 i released my debut album and that was basically it. The label did their work getting it out to the shops and of course important promotion (as any serious label should know how to do properly for their artists) and suddenly out of the blue (the way i felt it) I had organizers from around the world calling me (yes in those days we did not have e-mails or the internet) asking me to go and play at their parties.

Today it's a whole different game. You the artist need to network with people 24/7 and promote yourself heavily in order to be noticed. I cant help feeling that sometimes the music is no longer what's most important in order to be noticed compared to how things were back in the days.

Just an observation.


          www.beatagency.dk
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 19:34
Quote:

On 2011-01-31 19:21, Beat Agency wrote:
It's fun to compare today's very competitive promotion focused scene with the scene i started in as an artist.

In 1995 i released my debut album and that was basically it. The label did their work getting it out to the shops and of course important promotion (as any serious label should know how to do properly for their artists) and suddenly out of the blue (the way i felt it) I had organizers from around the world calling me (yes in those days we did not have e-mails or the internet) asking me to go and play at their parties.

Today it's a whole different game. You need to network with people, promote yourself heavily in order to be noticed. I cant help feeling that sometimes the music is no longer what's most important in order to be noticed compared to how things were back in the days.

Just an observation.





I think its mainly because music is so diverse these days. I mean listen to Protoculture's new album and the listen to Psykovski's. You'll get people claiming either of them albums is what psy-trance is all about
Actually just go to a 24+ hour party and listen to the music and how wildly it varies, and I am not talking about the BPM.

Now remember the music that was being played when Trance Africa Express was released? Remember 24+ hour parties in the mid '90s and how coherent the music was through out the duration of the party? I don't remember anyone complaining about the music getting boring.
And Trance Africa Express is a classic! It was so good it gave people religious experiences, drove them hanging up from the trees! It was THE forest track to play. Listen to what people call "forest music/trance" these days...
I remember in Varimpopi in 1996, 3000 people in the woods this tune would drop and people would go all wide eyed, like an apocalypse was taking shape behind the P.A.
Good music back then, was plain good music.
Nowdays, good music is ticking pigeonhole sub genre boxes.

Peace out.
          
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
danfoss


Started Topics :  9
Posts :  62
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 21:41
@ Disco hooligans..
How many time did you spend releasing music and promoting yourself before people started to invite you to play at partys and festivals?
Login
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  65
Posts :  1707
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 22:58
Quote:

On 2011-01-31 19:34, disco hooligans wrote:
I think its mainly because music is so diverse these days. I mean listen to Protoculture's new album and the listen to Psykovski's. You'll get people claiming either of them albums is what psy-trance is all about
Actually just go to a 24+ hour party and listen to the music and how wildly it varies, and I am not talking about the BPM.

Now remember the music that was being played when Trance Africa Express was released? Remember 24+ hour parties in the mid '90s and how coherent the music was through out the duration of the party? I don't remember anyone complaining about the music getting boring.
And Trance Africa Express is a classic! It was so good it gave people religious experiences, drove them hanging up from the trees! It was THE forest track to play. Listen to what people call "forest music/trance" these days...
I remember in Varimpopi in 1996, 3000 people in the woods this tune would drop and people would go all wide eyed, like an apocalypse was taking shape behind the P.A.
Good music back then, was plain good music.
Nowdays, good music is ticking pigeonhole sub genre boxes.

Peace out.




nop, its about many people having acces to the means for making music.

Tjhere so many people outthere making all kinds of music that standing has become so hard. before the DAW era and cheap computers you needed an studio and expensive hardware.

Now youcan buy the basic stuff(soundcard, monitors, controller, software) as low as 1,500 USD or lower if you crack software.

          "The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Jan 31, 2011 23:04
Our first release was with Ektoplazm on 15th of April 2009, less than two years ago...Although it feels like 5 years have passed since that release!
Our first gig in Greece was with Dado and Tristan in Athens a few months after, although we did not start playing outside of Greece until last September for the Swiss Earthdance.
This summer we are playing our first major festival, line-up will be posted by the organizers when they see fit.
We're still very new, but already things do seem to slowly fall into place.

Peace out.           
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  162
Posts :  8087
Posted : Feb 1, 2011 00:38
Quote:

On 2011-01-31 19:21, Beat Agency wrote:
It's fun to compare today's very competitive promotion focused scene with the scene i started in as an artist.

In 1995 i released my debut album and that was basically it. The label did their work getting it out to the shops and of course important promotion (as any serious label should know how to do properly for their artists) and suddenly out of the blue (the way i felt it) I had organizers from around the world calling me (yes in those days we did not have e-mails or the internet) asking me to go and play at their parties.

Today it's a whole different game. You the artist need to network with people 24/7 and promote yourself heavily in order to be noticed. I cant help feeling that sometimes the music is no longer what's most important in order to be noticed compared to how things were back in the days.

Just an observation.






i think it s cause today somone can do everyhting on his own ,from the music to get the booking and selling his music,reason could be the industry is so dead that you have to do everyhting on your own cause there is not much money left to pay someone work. or if somone can do the work on his own and get more money by doing this.
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