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Money question (not really off-topic)

faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht

Started Topics :  280
Posts :  3394
Posted : Apr 22, 2014 18:47
about gear i do get what you are saying but for me honestly it isn't porn. we work with eveything we have, and have been into modulars since probably 2003. the now dead "elmooht" act was basically a live act of digital modular ambient music. its true there is now a re-newed modular hype and in a lot of ways its a bandwagon with all the overpriced crappy modules from dodgy companies for eurorack, but i'm more into digital modulars anyways so


now about crowdfunding, for the OSE album we decided to try to fund it with a kickstart type thing, but i took it down after two days. feels like begging to me (i know it isn't really and no problem with people doing it) but just for me prefer another way.

no, we aren't maddona, but our friends and fans did support us and the mastering costs, graphics and cd manufacture were payed for with bandcamp sales. so can't complain.

i'm done with thinking about profits - lemme be at a point where at least releasing our music doesn't cost us our paycheck and i'm happy. so we develop a whole strategy around it - a few months before the album release a samplepack or something small for sale, have ads on our YT videos etc. a dollar here a dollar there


again just if anyone is annoyed by all the "me" talk - look at it as a typical situation, because it is           
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back
Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  144
Posts :  3168
Posted : Apr 22, 2014 19:02
me talk is good , it would be great if we get more honest me talk from artists. thanks for the info faxi, I remember hearing the name elmooht in the past but never knew the intentions.
Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  144
Posts :  3168
Posted : Apr 22, 2014 21:26
Kickstarter has not worked for 99 times out of 100 in the case of musicians, it's more suited to stuff like technology, where there is something on sale, at the end I find it an even weaker model than Bandcamp because you're mostly selling things.

Bandcamp is actually promoting the culture of people paying for digital music, that's how you change the game, creating new groups instead of just capturing those left from the record label dynasty.

It's time for the another step forward now, and in it's way the Bandcamp collection steaming functionality is trying to do so.

Was waiting anxiously on Ektoplazm for their entire metamorphosis project but no news on that for some time now, hopefully that means they're hard at work on something new.

DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  281
Posts :  6194
Posted : Apr 22, 2014 23:02
Maine Coon asked a very interesting question but unfortunately two users transformed the topic into a circus. Its sad to see how a problematic minority can have such a negative effect on the rest of the forum and its users. I guess one of the main reasons this forum has collapsed....

I had to delete all the offtopic comments, insults, and britney spears videos and spend 20 minutes of my time doing so instead of reading interesting answers.

What to say i just feel sorry for some people......           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Apr 23, 2014 04:59
Quote:

On 2014-04-15 21:57:42, Maine Coon wrote:
Greetings!
Happy Pesach to our generous hosts and happy birthday to DJ Meghan.

My question here is about the business side of the Scene. Specifically, does it make any difference for the artist how many middle-men are there between him/her and the buyer?

In other words, if I buy an album straight from the label, from BeatSpace or from Amazon/iTunes - does the producer get the same royalty (or whatever this cut is actually called)? Or does the amount become less and less because of the cut every additional middle man takes? Or is it just a one-time payment and it does not matter what happens to the actual sales?

I am asking not as an author but as a buyer. If there is a difference, I want to use the seller that would give the author the biggest commission/royalty.

tnx

P.S. I know I asked a similar question a couple years back - cannot find the thread. Besides, who knows, maybe the business runs differently now.


It does. Bandcamp is the best one afaik. Beatport is the worst.           
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Apr 23, 2014 14:39
There is money to be made in psy-trance, you just need to get to a position where you have to gig a lot.

On a much larger scale, the same applies to pop artists nowdays, or so I hear anyway.
          
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
Upavas
Upavas

Started Topics :  150
Posts :  3315
Posted : Apr 23, 2014 23:23
It is all in Gigs, honestl;y, nowadays I don't give a shit if a label gives me a little money for my tunes, I try to see if I can get a live gig through releasing with a label!           Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  281
Posts :  6194
Posted : Apr 23, 2014 23:59
Indeed what Upavas says is true in our days, artists only care to release music in labels about promotion and in order to secure gigs, i seriously doubt that today any label pays any money any artist to release his music.

Its funny to consider that ten years ago in 2004 the big name artists asked 1000 euros upfront to license a track to a label and artists got payed 7000-8000 euros for an album. Ofcourse back then a good compilation could sell 3000 copies (Japan used to be a huge market) and a good album could go up to 5000 copies. I am not sure if any compilation or album in our days sells more than 500 copies.

Labelwise i personally miss the old days when the labels and artists were fewer but the music was much better and you could more or less keep an eye of what new is getting released every week and keep track of your favorite labels and artists. Today the whole thing is a chaos with people finishing their first or second track and releasing it digitally on labels who release whatever they receive or even setting up their own label to release their own music......           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  1657
Posted : Apr 25, 2014 02:01
Thanks for the detailed info, Faxi. The actual personal experience tells a better story.

I understand that there is no real money in psytrance album/track sales. In fact, I was very surprised to find out that at some point in time there actually was money in it. But if I do pay money for music, I'd like to know that at least some of it went to the author rather than to Apple or Amazon.

Although unrelated to my original question, here is some thought I got recently. In online music sales, one of the major (and often ignored) factors is convenience, ease of use. It takes one tap of a finger (and maybe a password) to get a track or the whole album from iTunes, and it will be on your device seconds later. There are links to iTunes from Pandora and IHeart radio. You like what you hear - a few seconds and 99 cents later it's yours. (Strangely enough, Digitally Imported does not have this function)

So, if I want to buy some music I like and I am faced with choosing between
1) one tap of a finger and a few seconds
vs.
2) finding an "Albums" link on the artists Web site, finding the album I want, logging into PayPal, unzipping the album, importing it into iTunes, only then transferring it to my iPhone...
...it' important to know the extra effort in the latter option is worth it somehow. If I am not getting my album instantly, at least the artist gets paid more this way.

P.S. Please, let's not start the "Only Lamers Listen to MP3s" discussion here.

P.P.S. It's nice to see the Sheriff back in town.
dick hardman
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  369
Posted : Apr 25, 2014 02:23
My personal experience buying music in this day and age:
If I fall in love with an artist's music, I feel I have a relationship with that person and if I can I contact them and find out the best way to fund them monetarily. If it's Paypal and I have to jump through hoops to get it to a convenient device, I'll do it. I have to care enough and want the music badly enough to do the work or I obviously don't care enough so I don't.
To be honest, these days if I can buy the music through some middle man, it's more than likely music I don't love, sad to say.
           MahaRichie
~'~PsyTribe~'~
OzMike
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  146
Posts :  1675
Posted : Apr 25, 2014 03:41
On a serious note, as a persons who's made various types of music over the years there is something nice about owning the product(s) you use in production whether digital or hardware. I'm a hardware junky, always have been. I use Ableton Live but it's a means to an end, my basic tool to finish off what I've built outside the box. Sadly my original home studio was sold in 2009 to fund medical costs & help me out whilst unemployed. Now I'm able to rebuild but I'm being careful. Currently I just run my only synth through a small audio interface, I have some good headphones & I use Ableton which I got at student rate. My plan is to spend the next 5-6 years building a semi-pro studio which I can rent out and teach from. It will have a proper mixing console, monitors, a few more synths (Prophet 12, x0xb0x, Roland System-1 & a 9u eurorack system). The hard part will be sound proofing but I'm setting aside around $20-30K to get it done professionally.

As a consumer I still prefer to buy CD & mostly buy through Bandcamp. There isn't a lot that I buy from this scene, a few labels releasing remastered DAT's from the 90's (DAT, Anjuna & Zion604) and a few of the new generation of Goa (Sita, Suntrip, Timewarp & Global Sect). I make more money DJ'ing house variety's which I buy via Juno or Beatport.

For DJ'ing I use whatever the club has but at home I just use this https://www.storedj.com.au/products/PIO-XDJR1

I think that making music for a profit is a joke, there is no market with the new generations of kids/young adults. Even gigs are hard unless you stoop to birthdays & weddings or luckily like me have contacts from the 90's who now own massive clubs. Hence why I'm slowing moving to studio rental, audio engineering/mastering & teaching (I'm doing a teaching course looking at working at my son's future school). Making music for me is serious but for fun as a hobby & to learn skills. I don't sell my music. I give it away. I also often make extended pieces of music in the ambient vein as gifts for birthdays etc. I do live ambient with a friend who is an artist for his exhibitions and for another friend I'm starting to do pieces for a nature documentary he's working on. Neither are paid (yet).

I think the problem with anybody who starts on unemployment benefits is that over time it becomes a way of life and like most habits is harder to move off over time. I know so many artist across all types who said "once I start earning I'll move off benefits) but never do. It's too easy to stay on it.           Revisiting the past.
fruitopia


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  413
Posted : Apr 25, 2014 16:28
Play for gigs
BraneFreeze


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  51
Posted : Apr 25, 2014 16:40
Quote:

I understand that there is no real money in psytrance album/track sales. In fact, I was very surprised to find out that at some point in time there actually was money in it. But if I do pay money for music, I'd like to know that at least some of it went to the author rather than to Apple or Amazon.

Although unrelated to my original question, here is some thought I got recently. In online music sales, one of the major (and often ignored) factors is convenience, ease of use. It takes one tap of a finger (and maybe a password) to get a track or the whole album from iTunes, and it will be on your device seconds later. There are links to iTunes from Pandora and IHeart radio. You like what you hear - a few seconds and 99 cents later it's yours. (Strangely enough, Digitally Imported does not have this function)

So, if I want to buy some music I like and I am faced with choosing between
1) one tap of a finger and a few seconds
vs.
2) finding an "Albums" link on the artists Web site, finding the album I want, logging into PayPal, unzipping the album, importing it into iTunes, only then transferring it to my iPhone...
...it' important to know the extra effort in the latter option is worth it somehow. If I am not getting my album instantly, at least the artist gets paid more this way.




iTunes may be more convenient, but the digital files frequently have a low quality bit rate (eg, less than 320 CBR MP3). Amazon is the same.

Bandcamp may be less convenient, and slightly more expensive, but you can preview the entire track, the digital file quality is much better, and the artists/labels get a better deal.

Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  1657
Posted : Apr 25, 2014 22:30
^
At the risk of giving quite a few people here heart attacks, I'll confess: sound compression quality is not a big concern for me.

I do not hear any difference between lossless and 320 kbps MP3 (and doubt that more than a handful of people outside professional mastering field do). Most of the times, I don't hear a difference between 320 an lower bit rates either (reasonably, of course: I am not talking about 64 kbps here). I often listen to music on Internet radio or YouTube and don't suffer from lack of sound quality (usually). On my car stereo or my $20 earphones it simply does not make much difference. We already had this discussion here many times - it simply does not apply to me.

Supporting the artist, on the other hand. is much more important to me. So, if Outlet A gives me lossless WAV and pays the artist diddly squat but Outlet B gives me 256 kbps MP3 and gives half of my money to the artist - MP3 it is then.

Rich, I agree with you: if music is worth buying it is worth a few extra clicks (and maybe a couple of emails). That's why I am a proud owner of a hand-numbered debut album by Lauge and Baba Gnohm.
Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  144
Posts :  3168
Posted : Apr 26, 2014 11:30
Quote:

On 2014-04-25 22:30, Maine Coon wrote:
Rich, I agree with you: if music is worth buying it is worth a few extra clicks (and maybe a couple of emails). That's why I am a proud owner of a hand-numbered debut album by Lauge and Baba Gnohm.



Hand numbered CDr put up by labels who's intention is to drive prices up with "limited edition signed copies"?

http://www.discogs.com/marketplace?master_id=378474&ev=mb

I bought it when it was put out by directly by the artists digitally. I think artists ended up getting more through the those sales.

I noticed they're even selling it digitally now:

http://altar.bandcamp.com/album/langbortistan

as opposed to directly by artist:

http://laugebabagnohm.bandcamp.com/album/langbortistan

I wonder if the markup is the digital packing cost labels love so much.

Trance Forum  Forum  Trance - Money question (not really off-topic)
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