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Mitsumoto
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green nun
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
217
Posted : Oct 16, 2003 00:25
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Yeah Uncle Bob..you sound like my uncle too! always saying the things that the family doesn't want to hear but that everyone knows is true. Look, there's no need to admit that the BUSINESS and MONEY are the focus but don't insult people's intelligence by denying it either.
Those few Japanese people in LA (who go back to Japan quite often) are sad for the scene in Japan..sad that it was sold out sad that it had to grow sad that they cannot go up to an artist and sit with them, talk, take pictures with them, thank them like they do after every party here. With growth comes change and it is inevitable that people will not be happy with everything. We are in no hurry to grow that big... and we are happy we can give them a little piece of the good ol days  that's all
  Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity... |
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Morgana Le Fay
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
45
Posted : Oct 16, 2003 12:46
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Well well all of us lost children of trance.....
I have been in this scene befor it was a scene and i to am sad at the changes that have come with the growth...yes this is a bussieness, it allways has been, even in Goa in 92 when it was born it was only allowed to happen because it was bussieness for the locals....and yes their has allways been mafia involved..it comes with the territory and you all know it...in every single scene world wide some one needs to pay for the sound the site the djs ect.... and as more people join us (which was the idea..right?)the responsabily that comes with that growth is for bigger spaces larger sound system..ect..the more people the more money
the DJs want to come...we all pay.. as for beeing sold out..what dose that mean exactly? that when an event reahes larger the x amount of people it is sold out? this is the argument of theages and has been said about every emerging sene in the world
that is life my fellow trippers......i wish i could go back...but what can we do? we find this amazing scene fall in love with it ..want all our friends to come and join us..they bring their friends..and so it grows...and then when we realize that it is no longer "underground" we call it sold out........who do we tell not to come.....as for not being able to sit with the artist or come on stage...well peple have stolen from the stage, started fights and hasseled the artists, they like to have a spae for their own.. and have all the time for everyone when they come from backstage... iam sorry that things change i wish it could be otherwise, i wish it could go back.....but it cant and nor can I or Vision Quest...I am sorry if we fall short from all your expectations...if you have any posative critasism to offer i am willing to hear it..there is no one out there who loves the scene or contributed more to this scene around the world then me...i love trance love the people love the music....but it is no longer just ours..it belongs to the whole world ..and i think that it is ok.....
dreaming of the past and hopeing for the future...
love and light |
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Morgana Le Fay
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
45
Posted : Oct 16, 2003 12:46
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Morgana Le Fay
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
45
Posted : Oct 16, 2003 12:46
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ApplePie
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
6
Posted : Oct 16, 2003 23:47
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You are right that it is a business. If I am an artist I need to get paid to eat, buy equipment, health care, etc. The mafia needs to be involved to satisfy the appetites of those that crave synthetic stimulation. But there is a difference between letting something grow naturally / organically or dumping miracle grow on it and forcing it to blossom. I can grow a small tomato organically and it will be so delicious. I can also grow that same tomato hopped up on fertilizer until its the size of a pumpkin. But bite into it and what do you have? A big red bag of tasteless nothing. Just a pumpkin sized tomato.
Although you justify throwing HUGE "events" (these are not parties) and many people (not trancers) attend, this is not the trance experience I had when I was in Japan or have whenever I go anywhere else in the world (and I have been MANY places). I watched your profitable Vision Quest video with some moron flying from the sky on a parachute from a helicopter and homeboys and girls camping and cooking curry rice all the while relaxing in their expensive tents and wearing their designer "trance gear". Is this natural progression to satisfy the needs of the people? Do I need to watch a jackass jump out of a helicopter screaming unintelligably into a mic to have a psychedelic experience? Where's the spirituality in that?
I almost puked. If you are Japanese I wonder if you really understand your own culture. Let's all jump on the bandwagon cuz its the "in" thing to do and next year if you're still into it your a loser.
Your "vision" is profit. Your "quest" is fame.
Thank you for destroying the trance scene by shoving it down people's throats and making it into a commercial event sponsored by corporations backed by government regulations. Are you about promoting the artists and the music or utilizing them to satisfy your own selfish greed milking the scene for whatever you can get?
I too have met many Japanese Trancers and the conversation of parties in Japan is very negative. When I was in Japan the only place to buy trance was at Cisco.
I wonder if your new releases will be available in all Tower Records? I'm sure they will and i'll bet they'll be right next to the big tomatoes. |
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HIKARI
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
611
Posted : Oct 18, 2003 04:00
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Well Apple Pie some of your stuff is right and some are not wrong but helpless... you have to also think about the resposibilities that come when more people come to your party.
The more people who come to your party the more BUSINESS it must become. You have to rent a bigger place, so you have to raise the ticket prices, the higher the ticket prices the higher expectation the crowd has for the party. So the organization has to live up to the expectation making everything be so proffesional. This is what I think happened to the big organizations of japan. They wanted to become big, but by becoming big they had to live up to the expectations and on the way the had to give up some things.
I mean from a person who doesnt know much about trance to come to a party pay close to 40 dollars and have a party very underground with minimum decorations, small space, bad speakers and security problems, I think this person would just get pissed off and tell everybody else never to go to this party again.
So their are many ways of looking at this problem. I belive that this scene in japan has just gotten too big. Its too bad, but their are still small parties some where in japan which try to keep the vibes of the old trance days alive. You just have to find them.
By the way, you can find all trance cd`s at tower records. |
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Morgana Le Fay
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
45
Posted : Oct 18, 2003 08:01
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Welll welll
Apple Pie...thanks for the posative critisisim..very helpfull. It is also good to know that the debate on comercialisim still rages. so be it. If you want to change something then get up and start doing something to change it.
VQ dose not need to justify anything we just make parties. VQ is not sponsored by anyone...and yes VQ gets goverment permission, it is their country after all. As for the artists i dont see how we are
utilizing them to satisfy your own selfish greed milking the scene for whatever you can get?
i think the artist and the public japanese are very capable of defineing their own culture for the selves we all have that right.
so my friend instead of passing judgment and spreding negativity look for the spirituality in what you say as well as what you do..it is easy to sit back and complain but what are you doing about your convictions?
why not make some light! and look inside to your own country and scene to see what you can do to make your vision come true.
No one forces anyone to come to any event there is a lot to choose from in Japan and the world, we have free will, use it and i am sure you will find a party that is exactly as you wish.
Also not meaning to offend you or anyone but perhaps you should actually come again to japan and the parties before you pass such total judgment on everything
Love and light |
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MonasticSquid
MonasticSquid
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
359
Posted : Oct 19, 2003 03:41
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... nice to see an 'upfront' debate going on here...
so i thought i'd throw in my thoughts 
....I think, from a 'global' perspective.. PsyTrance is still very much an underground 'scene'.... i'd guess at least 80% of all parties around the world are still 'uncomercial', relativley small and not connected to 'organised crime' ....
........... and even though Japan has maybe the most 'comercial' scene of all (= a lot of money involved,size,expense,attendance etc) - for Artists.......It is one of the few opportunities to really 'get paid' (unless they are booked for ...Samothraki in Greece.... or South Africa NYE).....and a few more im sure... (but ya get the point ) - this spring in Japan, i went to a couple of really nice, average sized, fluffly 'hoodlum free' parties! there are many such partys in Japan so its not all just about '$$$' over there..
...also....RE. the Organised crime thing..... while its most dispicable and unwelcome.... we are involved in a world which is generally 'supported' by illegal things that obviously have 'illegal' connections......
......So it stands to reason that on a MUCH LARGER SCALE..... the illegal connections will be much LARGER
undesirable yes...but i think... unavoidable 
...as for unsavoury organisers.... every place has them...there are some here......I just dont go to their partys
....every scene in every country has its own 'cultural flavour'..... If Japan is diferent, to India, is diferent to Greece, is diferent to Australia...on it goes... I enjoy checking out the 'diferent way of doing things'..... its why i travel
....(but ohh how i do wish i could freely BOOM a chillum on a Japanese Dancefloor - definatley not advisable) ........those are the little differences that bug me
---------------------------------------------
www.myspace.com/mtheoryuk
www.myspace.com/monasticsquid
www.alchemyrecords.co.uk |
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ApplePie
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
6
Posted : Oct 19, 2003 08:46
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I have no intention of bringing any negativity to you or your organization. I am just pointing out the sometimes not so obvious reality of what you do. Apparently, the money and ambition to always make the next event bigger and better than the last has made you blind to this fact. I have been to some amazing parties with high ticket prices and quite frankly I would not expect or appreciate some of the "stunts" you do at your events. One of my all time favorite events was at Makuhari event hall headlined by Tsuyoshi. There were visuals, music, smiling faces and more music. My ticket money didn’t go to MCs, flying machines or the marketing designed to attract the curry rice eating trend setters. The only interaction between artists/DJs was the language of music.
Have you seen the video of the Drugless party in Israel? This is a positive reflection of what the music, artists and scene represent. I have friends who do not understand the music and they watched the video with question marks on their face. They don’t understand the spirituality of it and I would never bring them to a party and force it on them. VQ on the other hand, has turned it into a spectacle. By throwing the commercial events you organize you are deliberately trying to attract a mainstream crowd. I understand though as you need those high ticket sales to pay your rent and auto insurance. You get your livelihood from those high ticket prices. You need to get back to the roots. I bet you play progressive trance at your events sometimes don’t you? Can I really come to one of your events to get that full on spiritual vibe I seek when I go to any party? For me, psytrance is my religion. When I go to a party I have the same feelings come out of me as the people I see on Sunday morning religious shows. I can’t help but dance and holler. For me, a party is my church. Maybe I sound like some sort of addict, but I attend every event on a positive vibe with a sober head. My only addiction is the music.
Having been out of Japan for some time now my Japanese is a little rusty, but your video had a segment very similar to Club MTV. I was told by my Japanese friend who brought the video back from Japan and translated some of the language that you air this show on cable TV!!! Hopefully someday soon I can get back to Japan and go to a party, but it won’t be this year as I am making my pilgrimage to Goa. Good luck with your enterprise. I hope you can grow it into such a big company that you need to find another music to exploit and then hopefully you will stop trying to force the mainstream on us true trancers where I can be a freak and a hippie on the weekend and not have to deal with conformed people of society I am already forced to deal with during the work week to pay my rent and auto insurance.
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
663
Posted : Oct 20, 2003 09:36
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I will still say that there are PLENTY of awesome parties with beautiful people all over Japan! And to those who think psytrance is all about money, I agree and disagree with you. Yes, some organizations make lots of money on it. But there are also organizations that lose a shitload of money but still throw awesome parties! Is it because they dont know what they are doing? No. (well, maybe some of them.) I have seen organizations that lose lots of money. But they are not doing it for profit, they are doing it for the LOVE. I know some disenchated people will now agree with me, but its there. I have seen and expericed it. The way I look at it, if you lose money, well that sucks but it was a great party and people will remember that. If you break even or make some money, then great! That should be a bonus, not the objective. The objective should be to create a wonderful place where people can connect and form a community. The BEST community! I am sorry to go off, but I dont want people to become disillusioned with one of the greatest scenes in the world. We cant forget, there are not many scenes like this in the world. I feel that we teh people ARE the party. Dont like the one youre going to? Then change it yourself. Dont sit there and complian and not try to do something about it. We have the power to make anything happen that we dream of. So be the change instead of waiting for it!
To all that feel many parties are about the money, I know where you are coming from. I just paid 5000 yen to go to a VQ party, and it was great, although hard on my pocket. Then I hear that there is an afterparty, and its 3500 yen?! Man, I would love to go, but I am not made of money!!! Please, VQ, realize that there are many people who love the music but cant afford that much in one night! Is there a need to charge that much to 8000 people? Well, until that changes, I will go to them once in a blue moon, and will find parties that are less about the money. If I cant find it, I will start it myself. Watch me!!!! And when it happens, I will let you all know. Please come!!! Love and Light, Spliffnik |
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Morgana Le Fay
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
45
Posted : Oct 20, 2003 13:38
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hello again
well made points by all i must say. Spliffnik i will tell the organisers of the after hours(who are seperate frome the main body of vq) that your point is very valid and see what we can do. loosing money has and allways will be a major part of any organisers life and that goes with the territory we have lost more then any one will ever know. comercialisim is the source of so many debates that we could go on forever.
all i wanted to say was dont judge so quickly until, as spliffnik said you go out and change something yourself. I love this scene and although some of you may think otherwise i am doing the best i can and i am happy with my events. Nothing will ever be enough for everyone, there will allways be something that is missing for someone. And as one of the original founders of the trance in the world and Japan i have done my best and from a place of love.
apple pie you are a relligious trancer well welcome to the club! I did not do this for ten years including being envolved in the drugless festivale, the first parties in Goa, some of the first in Japan and thailand and the world, as wellas puting up with endless debates as to what it "should be like" or not with out being a fanatic my self!!
and no we dont play progresive music at our events and as far the money goes our events have been the same price within ten dollars diffirence for 7 years.
I wish i was this rich person you seem to think i am...then i could throw even BIGGER parties!!!
It sounds to me that you have a problem with shareing your scene with the world. I think (and it is just one opinion) that to get the whole world tranced WAS the idea. You too started out not knowing what trance was and you turned into a fanatic...dont you think everyone should be allowed a chance as well? i thought (again i may be wrong) that trance was about joining different people together not decideing who is "aceptable" or not.
It is amazeing how so much of the scene talks love on top yet underneith spend so much time bitching obout what should or should not be what music is or is not trance and what it a "real" party is or is not!!! come on! it is changeing allways and it is the responsability of all of us to make it what we can!
Also you seem to think that VQ is the only deciding factor in the so called "comercialisim" it takes DJs sound systems VJs public and organisers together. This is your scene as well and i am sorry but people want big events and that is the truth.
once more darling its music that moves our lifes, gives it color and dfefines who we are....so let the world learn what you already know..
sorry for not being perfect! who is!
Love and light to everyone including you apple pie and uncle BOB |
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green nun
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
217
Posted : Oct 20, 2003 22:54
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Morgana please do not be confused. Apple Pie and Uncle Bob don’t need to preach love and light because they embody it. If it weren’t for Uncle Bob I would not have heard the music that changed my life and been involved in the scene that, like Apple Pie, has become my “church”. Apple Pie is too humble to say it but has thrown parties in various parts of the world including Thailand and Japan and has contributed to the scene in numerous other ways. Uncle Bob is a dj who can’t wipe the smile off his face every time he’s throwing down a killer set and the last one off the dance floor making sure to support all the djs that follow or precede him. I’m sure they won’t like me sharing this because they’re strong believers that actions speak louder than words and don’t feel it necessary to exclaim that “there is no one out there who loves the scene or contributed more to this scene around the world then me” (and that’s a direct quote from you Morgana). I hope you really don’t believe that and that it came out wrong. Then you go on to proclaim that you have been involved for ten years including being involved with some of the first goa parties. Please correct me if I’m wrong but ten years ago was 1993. The first Goa parties happened way before that? Do you see how what you say can have a negative impression on people? Especially when what you say is self-serving and not at all conducive to learning more about VQ’s philosophy or ideas or beliefs.
Apple Pie’s analogy with the Miracle Grow is a valid one. As you have acknowledged, Trance and the community surrounding this music genre are important. No one thinks this shouldn’t be shared. You are missing the point. This music and this community are life altering and life changing. It’s not something you push onto people or advertise like it’s the next best thing to coca-cola. In this community, the people who need to be there and want to be there will be there and will find this “religion” someway, somehow like we all did. It’s our individual responsibility to spread the word and to bring those people who will benefit from and contribute to the scene -to the family. Do I think certain people shouldn’t be at parties? Of course. Just like I wouldn’t bring an egomaniac, insulting, drug addicted, violent, all around asshole to my home..I won’t bring him/her to a party either. I don’t think that this is a problem or that it is being exclusive or prohibitive. I care enough about the “family” that I wouldn’t allow their good time and their religious experience to be ruined or ridiculed by a passerby who is only there for drugs and alcohol or to sell drugs. I would rather be protective than to have someone’s first party be their last party because I was looking for profits rather than human experiences. Which brings me to another one of your comments “and yes their has allways been mafia involved..it comes with the territory and you all know it...in every single scene world wide some one needs to pay for the sound the site the djs ect”. Here we pay for things ourself..end of story. The parties are small, the decorations are homey and the sound is the best that can be afforded. But we prefer that rather than bending over for the mafia/drug dealers and allowing them to harrass and intimidate our fellow trancers. That’s probably why artists don’t know California as a place where they come here to “get paid” but have left here thanking us for a true trance experience and expressed that this is probably one of their favorite scenes in the world. I think people here would stop throwing parties rather than selling them to outside interests.
I guess we just believe that trance is the “real” thing and is here to stay and there is no need to prostitute it or force it to be bigger than it really is right now. We live in the U.S. We could sell ice to an Eskimo and we could sell trance to the masses and make it the next big music trend in North America. What have we seen here though? The exact opposite. People are surprised that in the U.S. trance isn’t bigger and more popular, could it be? easily. We see the power of the media and advertisements first hand. We see how the U.S. can come out with a new product or brand and pretty soon it’s shoved down the throat of every person here (with very little resistance  ) and then spread and shoved down the throat of every other person in the world…it’s pretty disgusting and pretty predictable. No one wants to see that happen to trance or the community.
Morgana, no one knows you personally. You may be the biggest lover and liver of trance but you are part of an organization that may not always project that or may leave their actions and intentions open to interpretation and critique. So instead of taking the criticism personally..my advice is to not try to react to everyone’s criticisms but try to really listen to what’s being said and why it’s being said and how we all have gotten the impressions we’ve gotten and once you reflect on it see how you can “go out and change something yourself”. IT’S THE SOUL THAT MOVES OUR LIVES, GIVES IT COLOR AND DEFINES WHO WE ARE....SO LET THE WORLD LEARN WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW.....THE MUSIC JUST ALLOWS US TO EXPRESS IT 
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity... |
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Morgana Le Fay
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
45
Posted : Oct 21, 2003 12:00
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hello green nun
well said and point taken. it seems that yet again this debate runs on ..well that was not my intetion. i have once again tried to speak of something and have it come out wrong....well so be it. We all have our opinions and if i have managed to offend or insult your way of parting then for that i am sorry. I dont shove anything down anyones throat and nor would i ever want to. Free will my friends. If you wish to see what VQ dose as disgusting, ect that is how you shall see it this i cant change. Nothing is ever as cut and dry as we wish it to be.
i hope your scene continues to be all you want it to be and may you all find your religious experence as we all desrve to. after all at the end we are all here for the same reasons. so love and light brothers and sisters of trance.
see you on the next debate |
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ApplePie
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
6
Posted : Oct 22, 2003 05:53
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Hey Morgana,
You said you have been with VQ since the beginning? I wonder if I know you. I used to go to all the parties back in 1996 -97 while I was in Japan and I definitely went to many a VQ party back then as Mistumoto was my favorite Japanese DJ. Anyway, maybe I read you wrong. I haven't been in Japan for a while so I don't have first person experience. I hope someday I can get back over there (my wife is Japanese so there is a good chance) and I'll check out one of your parties for myself.
Until then,
Love and Light! |
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
663
Posted : Oct 23, 2003 12:07
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I have seen some people here mention things about the mafia being involved in the trance scene. I know this is a touchy subject, but I really want to know more about it. Why is it that people on this debate talk about mafia in the trance scene as 'it comes with the territory, you all know it'? No, I dont know that. Why does it have to come with the territory? That is bullshit! In my eyes, it goes against my idea of sprituality and compassion that is embodied in the message of psytrance, and reduces it to a superficial, marketable commodity run by people in it just for the money. If people want to do this, then good for them. I am not going to try to stop it. This is a very common thing in this day and age, where almost anything can become a commodity. Especially in Tokyo! I have gone to a lot of parties here where people dont give a shit about the person standing next to them, dont care about being spiritual, spreading Light to this world. I am not saying one way is the 'right' way and the other is wrong, Just that as a person who fell in love with the music, the scene, the people, and the message that I and thousands of others see, it hurts me a little to see some money makers trample on all that. To me, trance is very special. It has helped me see things that I did not previously see, and live a way of life that spreads Light to this world. It is not just music, it is not just dancing. What is it that I really dig about trance? It is Love. Some of the first Goa Gil parties I went to, and some that I still find today, were and still are full of love. People loving the music, people loving the people, people loving the love itself. That is what separates trance for me from all the other types of music. Trance is not just music, there is much more to it. But the big parties with mafia people and all the money makers, that, to me, is just another party, not any different from any other club parties or discos. Nothing beyond the money, and all the other superficial stuff that I see. These are the parties where guys go to pick up on girls, get in fights, give no respect to the fellow humans, it goes on and on.
I pass no judgement on these people. If people want to go and get laid for a night, or get into fights, good for them. I know we are all just human beings, no one is better than anyone else, and I know I dont have the right to condemn other people's actions. Ive got other things I have to do, rather than judge people I do not know. I am just saying this is not my way of doing things, I am here to create a community where positive and caring people can get together. Like I said before, youve got to be the change, so I will not give my money to people who defile one of the most sacred things in my life. I am sorry that I ever did! I know there are people who laugh at what I say, but I also know there are people who connect to my message. I am not trying to attack anyone or criticize anything. I just dont want to be a part of that. I want to say to all people who can even remotely understand where I am coming from, to all the people who have felt the message, but keep going to these types of events- open your eyes! If you are not liking many of these elements you see, then you cannot keep giving your money to that! YOu are only contributing to your own demise, Giving to the things you dont want to see. Instead, support the little guys that are trying to change this. We need your help!
Please, all lovers of Light and the lovers of trance before it was corrupted, lets come together. It is so possible. No one can make it happen but ourselves. Lets spread more Light and Love to this world, and join togehter to create the community we want to see.
Again I say to all who ARE the big promoters- if what you are doing is what you love and what you believe in, then keep doing it! Yes I will not agree with everything you do, but nevertheless I respect what you do. It takes a lot of energy to make huge events happen. Good luck in what you do, and I hope it attracts the type of people you like. Meanwhile, I will do what I love and believe in, and attract the people that I want to be around. I think our paths have crossed in the past, and who knows maybe in the future too. But for now, my path will going to a different direction.
Love to all, I hope to meet every single one of you who can connect with what I have said. -Spliffnik |
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