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Michael Jackson R.I.P
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AlienAudience
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
117
Posted : Jul 8, 2009 23:45
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I don't think you fully have a choke hold around what's happening here, Axis. First of all, my 'stab' at your sound has nothing to do with the substance of this exchange..I don't like your music and I attribute my dislike and feelings to your attitude. I believe that an individuals attitude and their perspective on things has a great impact on the quality of their sound and it's not surprising to me, after reading a lot of your posts, that I don't find anything interesting or special in your tracks. I didn't before, when I hadn't been exposed to your posts, and I don't now - after. I don't think you've personally offended anyone (I could be wrong), but you would be silly to believe that these types of comments can be made and they're not going to warrant responses and requests for you to fully explain the meaning behind them. I have a question, how do you have such a deep understanding of Michael Jackon's personal ethical code? I think that it's very easy to pass judgments on him when his entire life from the age of 12-death has been under the scrutiny of the intense media microscope. How is it, my friend, that you know him and what he's about so well? Do you blindly believe everything that's reported? Do you not think that some, if not all, of these stories have been warped and skewed beyond recognition for the sake of a sale and public appeal? Another question, on the guilty or innocent tip...do you understand that the only way for him to clear his name was to pay millions of dollars? What other alternatives could he have put into motion when you've got these allegations against you? Should he have stuck with a public defender? I mean come on man..what do you expect from a worldwide celebrity who, if he wasn't in the position that he was financially, wouldn't even be facing these charges. Like I said before, the kid found himself on the fast track to 10 million dollars. And as far as that picture goes man, any quick googling would provide ample explanation for what happened..it's very easy to take things out of context when you're neglecting to include other important factors of the event. In the picture , Jackson had stepped out on a balcony to greet fans with his baby in hand and due to the excitement of the moment he accidentally held his baby over the edge. It more more a matter of him showing off his son, in his arms, than anything else. This is the same guy who's kids have stated was the most kind and best Dad they could ever ask for. So I ask you, who's in a better position to decide if this was a benign accident or not? Or the reality of his ethics and morals? You or his children/family?
  'You cannot explain to a caterpillar what it's like to be a butterfly'
www.facebook.com/Trevorrr |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Jul 9, 2009 00:31
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| but you would be silly to believe that these types of comments can be made and they're not going to warrant responses and requests for you to fully explain the meaning behind them. |
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I've already said I expect and am not surprised to get reactions. There's a difference between what you're saying, though, and being asked to "prove" my "opinions" that I never uttered such as why I think he's a child molester. (as an example.)
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| how do you have such a deep understanding of Michael Jackon's personal ethical code? |
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I observe their actions and words and form an opinion based on that. It's never complete, but I work with what I observe, just as you have done with me. You're just as entitled to your opinion as I am. "With great power comes great responsibility" and when you're that high up on the ladder as he was, the things you do and say set a strong example. Hanging a baby over a balcony, no matter the context, is a very strong example and any other person would be climbing a very slippery slope trying to excuse that one.
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| Do you blindly believe everything that's reported? Do you not think that some, if not all, of these stories have been warped and skewed beyond recognition for the sake of a sale and public appeal? |
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No, and if I did, I'd be calling him a pedophile and other names along with the rest of them, not caring how true or false it is. But I haven't, and if you feel like wasting some time then try to dig up something on these forums where I did say that. Child molestation charges aren't a matter to be taken lightly which is why I'm careful about refraining from personal judgment on that matter (although I have to admit that Jackson's extremely poor decision making skills don't make his case look much better.)
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| do you understand that the only way for him to clear his name was to pay millions of dollars? |
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And how did that work out for him? Do you realize that paying millions to buy his way in an out-of-court settlement might have left the whole question wide open when he could have put those same millions into a lawyer and stood in front of the judge like any other innocent person with some integrity would have done?
I do have to admit that using your kid as a bargaining chip and lying like that so heinously is seriously, seriously messed up (and that father should be seriously evaluated also) but what example does it make when you give these people what they want because it's easier than standing up for yourself and doing the right thing?
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| In the picture , Jackson had stepped out on a balcony to greet fans with his baby in hand and due to the excitement of the moment he accidentally held his baby over the edge. It more more a matter of him showing off his son, in his arms, than anything else. |
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Poor excuse IMO. I don't think you'd be saying that if in all his excitement he accidentally dropped that kid.
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| So I ask you, who's in a better position to decide if this was a benign accident or not? Or the reality of his ethics and morals? You or his children/family? |
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The answer is obviously his children/family but for a person whose life apparently touched millions around the world so powerfully, it doesn't just stop there.
Take, for example, a highly theoretical and highly absurd situation. Say Jackson owned slaves. (Of course he didn't and I know this.) His kids could still say he was the most kind and loving Dad they could have had. Should that be the final absolute statement over the rest of his character?
Of course, that situation is completely absurd. But the point is, kids will oftentimes love their parents very much despite the mistakes they make.
Of course, this whole Q&A session is coming from a (yes, highly provocative) video I posted where the creator is blasting the media and the people who follow the media and their judgments/treatment of the whole issue.
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| you are just one of those people who shape their opinion according to what the media instructs them. |
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If I were doing that then I'd be cheering him on like the media is instructing us to do.
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AlienAudience
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
117
Posted : Jul 9, 2009 06:29
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You know Axis, I appreciate you taking the time to elucidate further on your opinions. I don't find it necessary to carry on with what we've been discussing..I feel like we've definitely reached a stalemate and it's probably better at this point to agree to disagree. I do feel like I have a better idea of why you hold the opinions that you do and that's all I can really hope for after volleying judgments and viewpoints for a few days. Thanks for respectfully explaining how you feel. I apologize if my comments regarding your sound felt like an indirect, spiteful result of our exchange..that was not my intention. It's awesome you're putting energy and passion into creating something and I'm sure that a lot of people enjoy it - perhaps even myself in the future (I have heard most of what you've released). Take care.
'You cannot explain to a caterpillar what it's like to be a butterfly'
www.facebook.com/Trevorrr |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Jul 9, 2009 10:09
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Thanks for taking the time to talk also.  I respect your opinions and I enjoy being questioned about my own. It makes me think a lot about my views in ways which I may not have before considered. I tend to be outspoken in my thoughts, oftentimes to a fault and this is something I'm working on (even though sometimes I slip a little along the way.) We can certainly agree to disagree and I'm sure it will make a lot of people happy to hear I won't be posting in this thread again, having said my own piece. It's not my intention to see this thread turn into something other than its original intention. For what it's worth, AlienAudience, I'm not sure where you live or if we've met before but if we're ever at the same event or something, I'd welcome the chance to say Hello in person and shake your hand. Thanks for the talk.
RIP, MJ, it's certainly no contest that your music brought a lot of people a lot of joy.
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Tristn
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
13
Posted : Jul 11, 2009 15:37
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If you would follow someone with kids for whole his life long, i think you'll find lots of embarrissing or dangerous moments.
nothing would happen to any of us, because not everything we do comes in the papers or on tv...
everywhere MJ comes, there are hundreds of people following him, offcourse you'll find some strange moments or something.
(i'm not saying it is smart to do it)
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bemombu
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
1
Posted : Jul 21, 2009 01:40
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May he rest in peace!..he deserves to be cherished... |
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nortynorty
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
41
Posted : Sep 23, 2009 05:10
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http://www.myspace.com/jeromejeeproductions
the BEST and most well produced production of a tribute = hear it and weep
the rest of his tunes are pretty ace tooo if you can tear urself away from 145 bpm for 10 minutes 
not that I in any way got paid 4000 euros for visuals on a certain euro tour date that would be telling |
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nortynorty
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
41
Posted : Sep 23, 2009 05:37
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On 2009-07-08 23:45, AlienAudience wrote:
I don't think you fully have a choke hold around what's happening here, Axis. First of all, my 'stab' at your sound has nothing to do with the substance of this exchange..I don't like your music and I attribute my dislike and feelings to your attitude. I believe that an individuals attitude and their perspective on things has a great impact on the quality of their sound and it's not surprising to me, after reading a lot of your posts, that I don't find anything interesting or special in your tracks. I didn't before, when I hadn't been exposed to your posts, and I don't now - after. I don't think you've personally offended anyone (I could be wrong), but you would be silly to believe that these types of comments can be made and they're not going to warrant responses and requests for you to fully explain the meaning behind them. I have a question, how do you have such a deep understanding of Michael Jackon's personal ethical code? I think that it's very easy to pass judgments on him when his entire life from the age of 12-death has been under the scrutiny of the intense media microscope. How is it, my friend, that you know him and what he's about so well? Do you blindly believe everything that's reported? Do you not think that some, if not all, of these stories have been warped and skewed beyond recognition for the sake of a sale and public appeal? Another question, on the guilty or innocent tip...do you understand that the only way for him to clear his name was to pay millions of dollars? What other alternatives could he have put into motion when you've got these allegations against you? Should he have stuck with a public defender? I mean come on man..what do you expect from a worldwide celebrity who, if he wasn't in the position that he was financially, wouldn't even be facing these charges. Like I said before, the kid found himself on the fast track to 10 million dollars. And as far as that picture goes man, any quick googling would provide ample explanation for what happened..it's very easy to take things out of context when you're neglecting to include other important factors of the event. In the picture , Jackson had stepped out on a balcony to greet fans with his baby in hand and due to the excitement of the moment he accidentally held his baby over the edge. It more more a matter of him showing off his son, in his arms, than anything else. This is the same guy who's kids have stated was the most kind and best Dad they could ever ask for. So I ask you, who's in a better position to decide if this was a benign accident or not? Or the reality of his ethics and morals? You or his children/family?
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Learn to use sentences and paragraphs - otherwise fuck off
I didn't read any of that - faced with a wall of text
I'm guessing English isn't ur 1st language
Even so - that's NO excuse for such a random wall of bollox
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TheOneWhoMakesYouCrazy
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
165
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 15:18
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dude nortyshorty your behave like a paranoid kid who is angry cause of not enough milk from mama.
You should really wear a condom on your face.
Go to gangster hip hop .. maybe you end up like suck the balls of vanilla ice with your softcore attitude.
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xrust
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1742
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 22:29
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Sep 26, 2009 00:13
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this video with this very cheap american hip pop style for kiddies was posted already a few pages before ^^
yall know what - i completely dont give any shit about those opinions ,since no one knows what really happened- i always prefer to shut mi mouth without any prooves.But go on cause its so nice to observe the neo hippies haha
I also would not go to a concert - maybe in the 70s but this freak was for sure one of the last of his kind and therefor my comment on the time his passed away.
Cheeers
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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xrust
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1742
Posted : Sep 28, 2009 15:42
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^^ so,did u even bother to doublecheck this video and get its message,or you are just posting stuff out of your headhole??
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Sep 28, 2009 15:56
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no because I have better things to do and no time for such a waste of time and yes now after reading I spend a second to reassure it was what I was thinking.
btw
stop that spitting with bad vibes - espescially on a sad rip thread.Imagine it would be maybe yours. no need for that.And you could be my son for sure boy.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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xrust
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1742
Posted : Sep 28, 2009 16:53
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yes father.pm me when you get it together
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Sep 29, 2009 23:28
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For what it's worth, TT, not that watch it if you don't want to, but the creator of the video (he's Canadian, actually) is a satirist who's actually making fun of the people who made fun of him all his life, and began worshipping him after he died. He takes stabs at both ordinary people (I'm sure lots of us have cracked a Michael Jackson joke at one point in our lives) to the mainstream media who spent so much time focusing/exploiting his non-music life (such as the many scandals surrounding him) who began paying tributes and running specials about his musical life once he went away.
I know it may "seem" provocative, at first glance, but if you actually listen to his message, you get that he's really calling people from up to the highest echelons of the media hypocrites for the different ways they exploited him in his life and death, not to mention the massed who followed the media throughout (such as railing on him and joking about pedophilia during the trials etc., saying nothing about his music, and completely reversing their stance once he dies and the media began exploiting that, too.
Take, for example, this one line from the video:
"And then there was a punch line every day
about his skeletor-like face
and how he liked 12-year old balls
we didn't care if it was true or false."
(Graphic of a newspaper with the headlines, "NOT GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS")
I mean, if you think about it, making jokes like that especially so casually and flippantly without even waiting until the trial was over (he turned out to be not guilty of all charges and it came out the boy's father put the kid up to it) is a really, really serious thing to do to someone. And people kept telling those jokes for years after the trial verdict, so they didn't even care.
After he died, well, we saw how the world (incl. many of those same people) sing a completely different tune about Jackson (no pun intended).
So don't judge a book by its cover, because you may find that you may agree more with the video's message than you may realize by just dismissing it. It's a lot more slamming the hypocrisy of his post-mortem "fans" and the mainstream media than actually slamming Jackson himself.
(My own personal opinions on Jackson stem from things not relating to the child-molestation scandals, which I tried to elaborate on above, but which I won't get into again right here. I'm a firm believer in reserving judgment until after the trial, especially considering allegations with that much gravity) and I find the media-led hypocrisy, exploitation, and social engineering to be much more despicable, which is closer to the point that video is trying to make. Especially concerning Jackson, the public has happily rode on the media bandwagon throughout ALL the stages of his life.)
BTW: Jon Lajoie's other videos are hilarious and really worth checking out on their own also.
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