| |
| Author
|
Meet,.... XCIENCE !!!
|
the dog of tears
the dog of tears
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
397
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 22:54
|
|
by the way i haven't seen so much of the above mentioned style of laptop DJing in our scene. i see it a lot in IDM and dnb/breaks. i definitely know what you're talking about and don't like it very much! i think in our scene there's enough general knowledge in the average trancer that most people would be embarrased to DJ out of a laptop with no external control. |
|
|
PSYLICIOUS
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
225
Posts :
88
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 22:55
|
|
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 22:56
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-09-18 22:46, paradigm wrote:
but 80% of laptop djs i see, just hide behind the laptop, run short mixes and use the plus or minus button to keep things on time. Not to say these people are playing bad sets, but something along the way seems lost in the translation
|
|
i've seen plenty of good DJ sets done on Serato or Ableton. it really all depends on the dj, not on the tools he or she uses. take Bassnectar, for example.. he plays exclusively from the laptop these days, and has a great presence while doing it (not talking about his music here).
but it really makes not difference to me what the DJ looks like, it's all about the sound. that's just me though..  ..it's just another party.. |
|
|
|
KaiserSoze
Primordial Ooze
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
196
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 22:39
|
I think the reason you see a smaller percentage of really good laptop dj's is because a majority of those who use laptops haven't been playing for long. You don't see many Psy DJ's starting on vinyl anymore and that used to the debate against CD DJ's 8-10 years ago. If a dj started playing 5+ years ago 99% of them started with vinyl or cdj's and have generally stuck with that format. Now you have the few dj's who have played for a long time that switched or those who just started in the last couple of years on the "new" format..
Give it a couple of years and the things some laptop dj's will be doing will blow you away. CD DJ's will probably be considered boring..
AntiShanti/Sangoma
Chilluminati.org, T.O.U.C.H. Samadhi |
|
|
|
Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
2095
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 01:12
|
good music is good music, through vinyls, cdjs, laptops or live instruments. As long as it sounds good im there to support it.
I wish you guyz lots of luck, love, desire and energy 
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
|
|
|
saintcarl
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
209
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 03:33
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-09-18 22:42, paradigm wrote:
Perhaps its a each to their own thing, but i personally feel that all the laptops and digital mixing are taking some of the artistry out of the act of mixing. Some share this view, some do not Perhaps im too much of a traditionalist for my own good, but thats how i see it.
|
|
I guess you have not been DJ'ing for that long as I would consider vinyl more traditional or even DAT (with bad mixes). Most CDJ has beat counter or matching now anyway.
Time to get with it and not create boundries.
CD format will be history in no time. |
|
|
|
PsyCore
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
499
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 03:51
|
Well...gotta start somewhere. Artists will come later.
@Paradigm: Did I mention that the three new heads on the Hydra monster are THAT much more determined to complete their mission than the original head?  |
|
|
|
mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 08:38
|
|
Ok.. so you want people to control things live... it can be done. Quite easily for that matter. Torq can do some good shit while using cd players as a controller and actually play tracks in much better quality than even cd can do... I can make torq play music at 32 bit quality, which is the quality that it actually is made from the sequencer that the guys make it in... and use a cd player to control it, while there's a visual waveform to do it with too. no AUTOBEATMATCH, but still in a quality that nobody else can actually get. As for that plus or minus thing, Paradigm, you have pioneer CMX 3000s, guess what. They have the +- pitch bend too... do you use it???? no... but you can... all these things are are extra tools. The direction that you are coming at is pretty similar to the direction that the vinyl djs were attacking the cdjs with several years ago. I'm not saying that you don't need to do something to be a good dj, what I am saying is that if you worry about the simple technicalities, you can forget how to be an EXCEPTIONAL dj. nobody really will remember how well you beatmix. What they will remember is how well you handcraft a set for your time and how crazy you make a dance floor. I may be a purist when it comes to actually doing a set, but if you make people go apeshit, nobody except for another dj is going to really care how it's done. And in the end, it's all just semantics, because I guarantee you in a blind Pepsi challenge if you listen to someone's set, you're gonna ask what they're playing and not how they're playing it.... I may be on board with the fact that you have to know how to play your music on whatever you have, but at the same time you need to know that whatever you play on, you're gonna shred.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
|
|
|
sentient
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
91
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 08:55
|
Way to go Xcience crew! Wish you all the best of luck, and hope your parties rock steady. As for the new argument of CDs vs Laptops, I agree with Mubali: If you rock a crowd, who cares, really?
I was against CDJs vs Vinyl until I tried them, and then I was sold. I was against laptop DJing, but after seeing the shit people pull with Ableton Live and controllers, I'm inclined to change my tune. A good laptop DJ has a huge library of songs at his fingertips, and can pick them and play them at will, on the fly, just like a good DJ. And if you know your software, you can add loops, FX, and loads of other stuff to your mixing, not just tweak EQs and use the mixer's FX.
There's only a couple things I'm not pleased about laptop DJing. Laptops crashing is #1. I've seen it happen, and it sucks way longer than it takes to replace a skipping CD. Ugh. #2 is seeing people play premade sets. Boring. And I have to say, it's not just laptop DJs who do this. What the hell is up with all the CD DJs I see reading their track selection off of a piece of paper they figured out at home? Sad. Grow some balls and play on the fly, read the crowd maybe, and you'll probably surprise yourself. And this isn't just beginner DJs I see doing this, it's also people who've been playing longer than me!
Anyways, I've written more than I was going to about this, lol.
WOOHOO Lawrence, glad to hear you making waves over there. Big ups to you and your crew.
Brian Petterson
DJ Sentient - (Alchemy Records) California
Email: soundofmind@gmail.com
http://www.myspace.com/djsentient
"Watching television is like taking black spraypaint to your third eye." - Bill Hicks |
|
|
|
paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
1098
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 16:52
|
Mubz, Carl... and to this day i give it up more for a good vinyl dj than any cd dj. What they do takes far more skill than a cd dj, too bad you cant get psy on vinyl, oh yeah and it sounds like ass
but the skill involved in manupulting it, is higher than the skill involved in cd's. To this day I think Michael Liu is one of the most skilled dj's out there playing anything akin to psytrance, just for that reason.
As for Dat.... give me a break, you cant mix, you can Gil mix but thats not mixing in any traditional sense per say...
and i am not trying to stand in the way of progress, but progress by its very nature, makes things easier, makes them more simple, and takes more and more of the human element out of things.
Additionally maybe 1 out of 20 laptop dj's uses an external controler. Maybe if more did, i wouldnt be so turned off by it. Scott may have nailed it when he said most using laptops are relative rookies, so maybe in a few years, when people are doing more than pushing 3 buttons, (play . +, -) perhaps ill revisit my stance on it, but for me, where it is at today its boring.
A good set for me is more than just the music. Its about crowd connection, its about visual appeal, its a whole package, and to be off the hook you need all 3.
and most laptop djs lack 2 of the 3
regardless instead of everybody saying what we arent doing, why not pay attention to what we can, and watch this collective rock the socks off the midwest
Logical Light Music - SF
Straylight Productions -SF
Sound/Mind - Denver
Xcience - Midwest
mixes for dl at :
http://www.thehothouse.net/straylight/paradigm/index.htm
"He who ha-ha's last, ha-ha's best" |
|
|
|
ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 17:29
|
best of luck on this new endeavor.
lordie knows the midwest needs a (soft) kick in the pants and trancers are a good lot to do it.
hope to hear good things.
all the best
trance on!
best of luck with the new Xience crew.
Quote:
|
On 2007-09-18 22:01, djSF wrote:
YAY Lawrence - good for you!
I'm in agreement in avoiding the MP3 trend we're seeing in psytrance - those files are pretty weak and lack dynamic range - they remove all the masked sounds and take out a lot of the quieter sounds all together. Plus having your computer do all your level setting and beatmatching tends to make the mixes seem bland and lose some of that punch and zest I so look for in a good DJ.
Best of luck and I'll support you guys the best I can up here in NYC - gwyn
|
|
i want to correct assumptions and mis-information-
1) while mp3 files may be lacking in quality, its possible to play full cd quality wave files as well as HIGHER than cd quality wave files from a computer. the fact is, a cdj is only an embedded, very limited, computer- as are all cd players.
2) automated beatmixing, while a feature one can turn on and use in Traktor and a few other dj softwares, is not possible with Ableton and most dj's i know who use Traktor and that ilk turn OFF the automated mixing.
3) as a person who used vinyl, cd's, and a computer at various times (i stopped making dj sets of other peoples music back in 2000 but i played since 1996...)
i would say its about the same thing to move a jog wheel, spin a record, or slide a visual marker around to get the beats to line up. meaning- equal amounts of technical skill required. mostly its about the ear and the brain... hearing if the beats are on.
3) usually, a dj has a soundcard with multiple outs and still uses a dj mixer to mix the tracks. |
|
|
|
FaceHead
FaceHead
Started Topics :
129
Posts :
1555
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 19:49
|
our egos argue about why our OPINION is better. Another dead end forum argument that didnt need to be had. Cheers to all correcting the technical facts the people need to know more whats going on up there. but other than that we might as well argue whats better cubase or logic or why darkpsy is better or whatever. Bored. If you are spending your experience analyzing what the dj or live act is doing then you are missing out on the experience ive always hated when people come up and say things like... well the deco could be better or its a nice location but eh... or any complaints in general.
The reason being you are being too much of a human being.
Instead of feeling the need to control small details. Or flip that letting the small details control you. Let things happen. If you didnt like the way things went (all major issues aside ie. violence technical problems, injury, mental trauma etc.) then maybe you were not letting yourself enjoy the experience.
when the music hits your brain maybe shut your eyes and try to hear the difference maybe youll forget about the dj or live act entirely.
:chuck:
|
|
|
|
pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
534
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 21:25
|
Yay! Good to see another crew, best o luck to yall!
To continue the technical question,
1) where do you get these better than cd-quality files? Is this only relevant to those who can get their tracks straight from the artists?
2) Can your average trancer hear a difference?
-pete
http://soundcloud.com/herbert-quain |
|
|
|
FaceHead
FaceHead
Started Topics :
129
Posts :
1555
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 22:04
|
ya you have to get them from the artists or from someone who has promised to not give them away but is going to anyway  also if you notice on alot of digital download sites you can get the wav file for a couple bucks more. or just make your own
as far as hearing a difference thats always debateable. fact is everyone is paying attention to something different with varying hearing ability so maybe not all will notice, but there will be a select few that might tune in to those details hidden by file compression. So if you can make it higher quality might as well. |
|
|
|
the dog of tears
the dog of tears
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
397
Posted : Sep 20, 2007 01:50
|
i think most people are referring to playing their own music when talking about higher quality files... for example when i bounce a track from logic into a 16 bit 44.1 khz aiff, it's usually the most depressing part... after all that time spent mixing and mastering my own music, i still have to compress it a little.
most artists would love to play their music in full quality, either 24 or 32 bit... yes you can hear the difference, just listen to the beautiful audio on a DVD (24 bit audio) and compare it to a CD (16 bit audio)... more dynamic range and clarity. i always prefer live acts over DJ's because the music just sounds a whole lot better and cleaner in 24 or 32 bit. this was very clear during Derango's set last weekend, for example. it doesn't help that our scene suffers from very poor mastering at the cd stage!
some would say that you can't tell any of these differences on a large, proper sound system, but for my own opinion i will hold that you can tell the difference much much much MORE on a good system, because the definition of a good system is an honest and transparent sound that doesn't embellish any particular frequency range.
i could ramble about this forever but maybe it deserves a different thread... |
|
|
|
|
|
