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IL 23/04 Mokasha Project!!!!
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Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
984
Posted : May 2, 2007 19:16
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some ppl here really fucked up!
one of the most dirty topics i've ever seen in isra
seems to me like some ppl here are not better than arsim......
pure racists and unthankful ppl.....that forget all those great productions by moksha!
if you dont like it dont go to next moksha events!
anyway ppl like you are not welcomed !
cheers!
  www.myspace.com/aliasix |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : May 2, 2007 21:25
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I haven't been to this party - actually - I haven't been to a party in a long time. I read this thread from beginning to start, and I have to say, I found some surprising sayings from party veterans and newcomers alike, on both sides of this debate. Let me point out some of the loopholes in both side's points, and let's see how people address them, as this issue (cops&parties) has been the biggest deal in the scene for 10 years now (since the original Ganei Huga festival brought the crackdown on parties to the forefront of the cop's goals).
Anyways:
The party was closed at night, before everyone could enter, and a load of people with tickets pre-sold to them have a problem with this. On one side, if Moksha doesn't use the money to pay up for X-Dream, soundmen, security and the such, they'll personally lose all credebility as organizers of big parties. X-Dream will NOT come again if they get ripped off, since there are more than enough people that would NEVER do that. And considering that even if they would have refunded everyone's money - that maybe would knock the wind out of their sails permanently.
Possible solutions:
1) All people who paid for tickets in the last two parties get free entrance to their parties until one DOESN'T get busted. Keep doing what people love them for, and just let this terrible situation pass until heads are cool and people remember the good things about this organization.
Problems:
a) You try giving a few thousand people free entrance to a party. No fucking way that you won't lose a load of money. And I mean - the organization would be looking at a 4 digit loss to each person. That's gotta suck. Most party organizations can't afford this kind of loss.
b) How the hell do you keep track of who was at those parties and who had tickets? What do you do with people who throw away the proof of being at the party?
c) How do you inform all these people about a party without the party being busted? That many people and it is bound to leak. Bilush was in on this party, and with the arrests they made, this will be a very, VERY hard thing to keep quiet. All they need is to put enough pressure in just ONE guy they caught to get an SMS, and call me pessimistic - this is probably going to happen. It looks like the cops have Moksha's name at the top of their list now.
Advantages:
a) You will regain a lot of trust, a lot of respect, and maybe even to manage to turn this horrible thing into something good. In the US, when some aspirin was found to be poisoned, the company immediately recalled it's entire line, at a HUGE cost. The loss was returned by a massive gain of public trust, at what is now known as one of the greatest PR victories. Of course, they had enough money to cope with the loss in the first place. If anything - this thread is proof that it may be the right thing to do on a financial level.
b) It's the right thing to do. I know that sounds corny, but it is. The crowd has shown Moksha love for many, many years now. They deserve to get some back. I've been to Moksha parties over the past years, and many others have but loyalty to these guys close to their hearts. This is one of those make-it-or-break-it situations, because the blowback on this is MUCH greater than previous busts. Gabi and the Twins used to have the complete trust of the scene (especially in Haifa and the north), and busts were the beginning of the end for their relationship with their following.
c) These guys are symbols of the scene. Like them or not, agree with how they run things or don't, but these are one of the 3 major organizers (along with Doof and 3rd Empire). They have a chance to set an example and prove the cops wrong in their attitude that psytrance parties are just a different name for hedonistic drug parties, to prove to people that the spirit of the scene actually means something. Will this have any effect on public opinion? Probably not. But this is about the psytrance community, and this could help revitalize the talk about being more than about the money.
2) Go legit. Go completely, totally, 100% legit. No more (illegal) drugs, no more violations of regulations. Take the parties to private locations, coordinate with law enforcement. Maybe this is a sign that things have to change, and that this stage has been overdone for too long.
Problems:
a) An end of an era, no more underground, no more celebrations of freedom, no more spiritual side to things. This means the party will be a party for partying's sake and nothing more.
b) Different concept, different competition. Being in the underground made Moksha's proffesional organizational skill a trump card - they can pull off parties that most other productions simply can't. Frankly, bringing X-Dream and having a monster soundsystem is a financial risk that most others simply can't take - if only for the fact that the big money-rollers tend to search for profits and not music. In the more mainstream productions, they'll be competing with organizers that are used to making massive efforts for big profits, who aren't scared of bringing the biggest names. This'll require adjustments that are not necessarily easy to make, and they'll lose a lot of their regulars to the smaller vibey-underground organizations. Big risk on both the financial and reputational levels.
Advantages:
a) No more busts. No more parties ending prematurely. No more hiding from authorities. No more need to try and keep it quiet.
b) Big money if they can pull it off. Filling Hangar 11 and other such places in winter, in the summer organizing bigger parties, bigger crowds, whatever.
c) A chance to show that psytrance parties are about the dancing and not about civil disobedience (the point which both the cops and the media push down our throats daily).
d) No more people comparing them to a 100 people party with 50nis payment in the entry and saying that it's not as good but rather people comparing them to 6 hour parties that cost 180nis with Ofer Nissim as the star DJ.
3) Go back underground. No more 1000+ people parties for a long time, go back to the 400 people in the middle of nowhere, and make it a fresh start, time to rebuild, so you've got to go back to your roots, no?
Problems:
a) You try going back from thousands to hundreds, from thinking BIG to thinking small. Sure, they can pull off these parties better than nearly everyone, but they can pull the big ones off and come out large.
b) The smaller parties changed since Moksha was doing that, the music that's considered underground is not Moksha's speciality, and they may be forced to select a certain niche in order to appeal to a niche following.
c) They're not kids anymore, doing things only for the love of it requires a huge personal risk, and a commitment that is usually fueled by youthful dreams and iron determination.
Advantages:
a) Seriously, this is the psytrance scene. Born underground, raised underground, and that one word probably defines it's greatest appeal as a counterculture. Let's admit it, being rebels is cool.
b) A chance for people to see what made the parties so special a decade or so ago. Moksha's base of power was the underground, and they have built themselves out of it. They started there and forged their way to grander stages... but these parties were what made all this possible, and for good reason. They kicked f^&$ing ass.
c) Maybe it's time that they moved this whole thing to being just a hobby, doing it for love and not to break even. I'm sure that there are other aspects of life that maybe it's time to explore. Quiting the big scene and getting flamed every time something goes wrong (read every single Moksha party review for the last couple of years or so), quit getting the hate of people who have no idea what they did for this scene.
And that last point, is probably the most important one. Moksha have done more for our scene than any other active party organization out there. Like them or not, these guys have been organizing parties when most partygoers were rehearsing for their bar-mitzvas. People have no idea how small the scene was there, and how amazingly hard it is to not be dettered all this time, and finally, to stick with psytrance all the way, staying with it because they believe - and in so, creating faith in a future and a link to the past in this scene.
Moksha didn't do this to you. The cops did. You're acting like a conspiracy theory nutcase talking about the people responsible for 9/11, forgetting that the guys who did this were just plain and simple terrorists. Stop being stupid. If this was ANY other organization, I doubt that people'd react the same way. A lot of hate in this thread, and most aimed at the wrong target. Like them or not, what they've done in the psytrance scene is bigger than what anyone in this thread has done for it. So give respect where respect is due. http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : May 2, 2007 21:44
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OK, I left out two options that are at least as likely:
4) Just keep on doing their own thing. We'll understand, and by far, the majority of their crowd will come again and again.
5) Just quit. If you need a reason why - just read this entire thread. Sometimes it just isn't worth doing your best if you get spat on for the effort.
And as an added note - I am saying this as someone who hasn't shared the musical taste of Moksha since something like 2002, I know no one on the organizing crew, and none of the DJs that play for them, so I am definately NOT a fanboy, and I have no special interest whatsoever here. I just like to take the important subjects and give a more philosophical aspect to it. Hope I've made things more interesting here. http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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MOKSHA PROJECT
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
8
Posted : May 2, 2007 21:51
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es i mentiond befor
MOKSHA PROJECT
will never quit!
i balive we will only grow stronger and be presistent with our vision and production.
simply becose we LOVE IT!
peace&love |
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DanKo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
121
Posts :
392
Posted : May 2, 2007 21:54
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I didnt write in this childish forum for a while but i must react to all this
First of all i am not a moksha fan (to say the least) so my post for sure doesnt come from that
1 thing all u kids who pretend to know the "old days" and complain of how it used to be and all that load of crap let me tell u how it was in the old days as a matter of fact.
Trance party like u want it = illeagal, unauthorised, place of people using illeagal substances in a much higher consentration than any other place on the planet and beyond it
when u go to a trance party the risk of it getting closed is on your own throat take it or leave it. No refund what so ever should be written on all illeagal rave's tickets on the planet.
The organizers take many many more risks besides the financial one (for example: getting arrested for you unthankful young prats)
I have been arrested at a party i organized a few times. dont remember any party goer paying my lawyer high sallery after it or the fine i had to pay to this hard hard country
Thats how it was in the "old days" you kids mostly havent seen and probably wont see unless you go to a new country.
When parties got closed because of police in the old days (but only because of police) there was no refund and nobody also asked for it.
they understood that its their small small tiny taking part in the massive unbelievable pain, risk, tension and health loss of the usual trance/acid/rave/party event organizer.
For those who want refunds you will get it at all the massive commercial parties anywhere on the planet and in the smaller commercial ones also in our smal country.
What a contridiction of young unthankful kids who pretend to know it all=the trance scene in Israel today |
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Minimal Monster
Minimal Monster
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
951
Posted : May 3, 2007 02:46
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all my favorite artists over the past years i saw in IL only because of MOKSHA project.. from Sensient to Midi Miliz, Triac and The Delta and many many mannnnny more... so thank u Moksha Project, for be the 1st to bring and to do! feel sorry for what happend, but dont let it stop u. u r the greatest, the originals, the PIONEERS of all nature partys in IL, u r the 1st and ull be the last! thank u guys.
Cheers.
http://www.myspace.com/minimalran
http://www.soundcloud.com/minimal-monster |
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Wicked
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
158
Posted : May 3, 2007 02:54
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opa.. rajaran.. hhh youre Omer's uncle arent you? 
arent you in australia or something?  |
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jiffa
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
92
Posted : May 3, 2007 03:49
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moksha is for sure one of the good proudection's in our land... but still even after 10 years of making party's you learn new things.. the trance "scene" have grow allot in the last years and if you think about it..with all the internet advetising nothing is underground everything is online... to do a illiegel party and to expect for 2000-3000 - + after the internet advertising.. it kind of stupid...
all in all we love moksha.. my advice Keep It UNDERGROUND thanks!
"another nature adventure" ? ! ? ! |
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sagiv
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
150
Posted : May 3, 2007 08:40
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hello 2 u,
i think that some of the hard of commants comse from ppl. that care..
so for all of you that point about somthing importent i can tall you that we take thinking on it & some of yours offer we will apply.
all of this because it's most importent for us. we really want to bring to you & to all the israeli underground trance scene somthing special.
we will do our best for that ppl. but as the klishia says "who is don't trying don't makes mistakes"
some of them we can avoid (and we will) & some of them like the game with the police we can try to do the best.
in at all,
hope to give you best Moksha experience at our next event.
peace & love. |
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otz
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
130
Posted : May 3, 2007 09:18
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finally some sense. good one kaz  "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day." |
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badolina
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
220
Posted : May 3, 2007 10:16
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good words sagiv....
kip the faith alive....
full respect 2U man...
listen to your soul caos u have alot!
peace love ligth and big time
gon badolina famely
badolina.com |
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Ben-G
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
195
Posted : May 3, 2007 13:55
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YALLA SULHA!
When you go as big as moksha with your production, you will always get some bad criticizm, and there will always be problems because of the amount of people that come to your partys...
My opinion- there is a lot of money in these partys and moksha won't give up on that, they will not go small now, not after they have so many people coming to their partys/events... they need to compensate the people that bought tickets and didn't get to the party somehow, how? i leave it to them to decide...
I still think that the criticizm should be looked at and some mistakes should be fixed like sagiv said, and the most important thing imo- the people who write their reviews here are the people who give you money, this is how you make a living, so calling them "kids who don't know nothing" is wrong, and saying they are ungrateful is also wrong, they keep coming to the partys and paying their money which they worked hard for! they want to get back what they deserve. some people just can't say it in a normal way and get mad, but you need to understand that and not get all defensive and act insulted.
Mo' money mo' problems....
Best of luck to moksha with their future events!
Disclaimer: the author of this message doesn't really care about moksha or any other production for that matter, and never said that moksha do their partys only for the money. |
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tripi7
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
305
Posted : May 3, 2007 15:04
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Quote:
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On 2007-05-03 08:40, sagiv wrote:
hello 2 u,
i think that some of the hard of commants comse from ppl. that care..
so for all of you that point about somthing importent i can tall you that we take thinking on it & some of yours offer we will apply.
all of this because it's most importent for us. we really want to bring to you & to all the israeli underground trance scene somthing special.
we will do our best for that ppl. but as the klishia says "who is don't trying don't makes mistakes"
some of them we can avoid (and we will) & some of them like the game with the police we can try to do the best.
in at all,
hope to give you best Moksha experience at our next event.
peace & love.
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WELL my mate =]
i know dani from matalon a long time ago...
and if i am not mistake...he was one of the ppls who make this project
am i correct?
well this is not relevant except one thing...
well he is not in israel
and he is the one that make me love moksha so much
please mate!
please!
DO NOT disappoint us in the next event
b00m@1 |
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- Indoor Party
- Outdoor Party
- Free Parking
- Free Water
- ChillOut Area
- Free Drink
- Free Entrance
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- Deco