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How things work in Greece?

Dot Kite
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  431
Posted : Apr 5, 2005 22:26
Dear all greek members of this forum.
I have a couple of questions for all of you.
Well, reading around the greek forum I have noticed that in your scene you have a lot of problems. From Police/goverment regarding problems to unprofessional party/event organisers.

My question is targeted to the party organisers/promoters, booking managers and ofcourse all the supporters of this scene.

How is it possible to be so unprofessional in your scene?

Usually, when an event takes place from a private entrepreneur or a business, it must be approved by legal statements. This means that the organiser/promoter etc. must have a legal form for the special event. If not, the party/event should never take place!

After saying that, I would like to ask first the organisers/promoters if they care to have all the legal statements for their events or not.

And secondly, I would like to inquire all the party people, why do you go/support the parties/events if you know that the greek party promoters are not professional and they don't take care of all the legal statements that will assure you a pleasant event?

I would like to thank you in advance for your honest answers!

Best Regards
movek
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  640
Posted : Apr 5, 2005 23:04
Well my friend Don kite a lot of illegal things done in Greece,the key is to have the connections needed.

Quote:

And secondly, I would like to inquire all the party people, why do you go/support the parties/events if you know that the greek party promoters are not professional and they don't take care of all the legal statements that will assure you a pleasant event?


we just want to party , we don't check if promoters have legal statements, as long as they have no problem with the cups everything is cool for us.
The things I care about a party are who's playing,if the sound is good,if the deco is cool and if the people are groovy.

Usually the professional promoters are legal and make the bigger and better parties,but there allways some 'clever' guys who want to make easy money from trance parties
          Aει ο θεος ο μεγας γεωμετρει το συμπαν = 3,1415926
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  276
Posts :  6192
Posted : Apr 5, 2005 23:47
Legal Statements?

Can you please enlighten us on that?           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
eternal motion - SG
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  284
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 00:19
There is nothing illegal in organising events.At least at thesaloniki all the places that parties beeing held are 100% legal. We will also like you to be more specific about these (legal statements) (?)

Anyway ppl are asking for even better and better events and actualy the problem for our scene is not conected with legal or ilegal organisations-clubs.It has to do with the reliability of the organisers-clubs.
We are talking for Thessaloniki city though.Athenian promoters are in charge to answer about what is going on in our capital city.
          motion is the eternal order of things
RAVE ksylwne
movek
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  640
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 01:22
I just borrowed 'legal statements' from don kite           Aει ο θεος ο μεγας γεωμετρει το συμπαν = 3,1415926
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  276
Posts :  6192
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 01:27
Actually i am waiting for 'Legal Statements' explanation from Dot Kite my dear Movek.           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
HandA
Inactive User

Started Topics :  9
Posts :  890
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 11:11
Quote:

On 2005-04-06 01:27, DETOX wrote:
Actually i am waiting for 'Legal Statements' explanation from Dot Kite my dear Movek.




oh come on now dear Detox. legal statement = a permission from the Police/authorities.

Dot Kite
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  431
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 11:44
Dear all of you,
First of all I would like to thank you for the interest to talk about this topic.
In some of the posts above you have asked me what is my meaning to the "legal statements".

Well, I don't know how things work in Greece, but form my personal/professional experience what I have faced, is that, if your aim is to do business (and party organising is a business) you must have a legal support for your business operations.

Let me explain you better.
Organising an event requests several kind of operations. From renting an establishment where the event will take place, booking artists, renting all the requested equipment, contacting several suppliers (drinks...etc.), promoting the event... and the list goes on...
I would like to know if for all the necessary steps to organise an event, the organisers/promotesrs are using "legal statements" such as legal contracts or they do everything on the "trust of word"...?
And more over I would like to ask, if for every single event the organisers/promoters request special permission from the authorities...

Dear Movek, you have said that you just want to party! And I am sure that there are lot of other people who think the same! I understand your point completely, but what i don't understand is, if you (plural) know that the organisers are not 100% professionals in doing business and the events/parties very often don't end up in a nice way, then why if things go wrong everybody is complaining?
At the end of the day, people/consumers have the power of choise, isn't it?

Dear eternal emotion, I did not say that there is something illegal to organise an event, but it is illegal when you don't follow the special legislature and you don't offer legal contracts to your event partners.

That's all for the moment.
Please don't take me wrong for this topic.

Best regards to all of you...
Tms
eternal motion - SG
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  284
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 12:39
Ok dot kite we've got your point.
We as organisers try to be as professionals as possible according to the Greek standarts.Of course we have a legaly represented company(music entertainment and public spectacles).And we never (so far at least) had any problem with the authorities,since they checked us 3 times this year.We co operate with several partners,sound systems,video walls,deco teams,club owners,graphic designers,etc etc ....the list is very big as you said.

But this contract situation doesn't always work out in Greece.You see there are several and multiple definitions about how a contract is valid.The Greek law is a very complicated one,and contracts can be unvalid at anytime.Trust and reliability is usualy the real "contract" here           motion is the eternal order of things
RAVE ksylwne
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  276
Posts :  6192
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 12:41
Dear Dot Kite.

According to the greek law a contract can either be written or expressed orally,its called 'proforiki simfonia' in greek and it stands on its own upon court if necessery.A private written contract between you and me has the same power as an oral contract between us.In order to have the most 'powerful' contract in your hands then a written contract between you and me must be signed from both our lawyers in front of a 'simvoleografos' that is a person who has an office dealing exclusively with contracts and deals and whose translation in english i cant recall at the moment,just imagine he is a guy that confirms deals for the sales of houses,cars,heritages and stuff like that.

In order to prepare a regular event with all these contracts then you need at least a week on preparing the papers and a good sum of money in order for these papers to be turned into 'official documents'.

Oh and just imagine what a big story it is to prepare a contract with the artists from abroad that needs to be translated and faxed to them and send back signed and prepare work permits for them and bla bla bla...

Personally most of the time when i work with someone or when i organise something on my own i just rely on 'trust of word' which works preety well 90% of the times.

In any case the problem is not to have legal documents between the promoter and the artists or the sound guys or even the club owner,i mean very rarely an artist doesnt come to play for you when he knows that he is going to get payed or he has already been paid and ofcourse i know no sound person who doesnt wish to work and make money out of his job by providing good sound to an event.

The problem is the police and local authorities and this problem is caused by ordinary people who see trance events as something bad for society and also by some 'fans' of this scene that see trance events as a chance for them to consume their drugs and have fun.Its not easy to go to a police station or to a mayor and try and convince them that a trance event is not that bullshit thing that the national television says it is by describing trance events as illegal rave parties taking place in dark holes with big sound and huge ammounts of drugs and people dancing like crazy all around and believing to be in another world under the influence of xtc and bla bla bla...

And even if you try and convince the police and local authorities that a trance event is not what the tv says it is then guess what,the prosecutor comes into the game LOL

Trust me it has happened in a very very big event in Greece where the event was welcomed by the people of the place and its local authorities but then the local prosecutor just wanted to ruin everything.Its not very easy to convince everyone in Greece that trance is not the music of devil and drugs

And to finish with this story,when my last party was busted there were 600 people inside at the moment that the police entered the place and the next day i saw on every damn channel on television that 2000 people were illegal raving and that 50 of them were arrested and bla bla bla,damn where was i when all these things happened?           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
Dot Kite
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  431
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 13:34
Dear Detox and eternal emotion,
First of all, I would like to thank both for the detailed answers you gave to me and to the rest of the members of this forum.

Detox, I believe you saying that conviencing the local authorities and local public opinion maybe tough, but I think that if you, as a promoter, want to improve and to enlarge your business, then you should try harder to have a better relation with all the major players of the local authorities. I know that this is not an easy issue and sometimes bit boring, but at the end of the day if you want to have credibility, to be professional and to organise quality events, then there is no other option than to build a relationship/partnership with your local major authorities.
Of course what is said above, is not direct only to you Detox but to everyone that is involved in this business "industry".

About the contractual requirments, well, I can notice all the additional expences that a promoter can have, but is the only way to assure at 100% a successful event. And ofcourse paying the lawyers and paying the notary can cause you some plus expences, but i repeat, If somebody wants to call his business as a professional business, then he should take care from all the legal requirments.

Regarding the greek law that allows you to have a contract expressed orally I don't know it, but I believe you. But if an event/festival organiser wants to promote an international party, then this oral law can not be applyed for the simple fact that the 2 sides may not be based in Greece, isn't it? Please correct me if I am wrong.

By the way, I have the feeling that is good for the greek promoters to collaborate, so they can apply a same and unique strategy towards the public authorities and finally to be able to have again super events without botherings.

Thanks again for the attention

Kind Regards
Tms
movek
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  640
Posted : Apr 6, 2005 16:27
Quote:

On 2005-04-06 11:44, Dot Kite wrote:
Dear Movek, you have said that you just want to party! And I am sure that there are lot of other people who think the same! I understand your point completely, but what i don't understand is, if you (plural) know that the organisers are not 100% professionals in doing business and the events/parties very often don't end up in a nice way, then why if things go wrong everybody is complaining?


My friend Don kite we are not a country like Germany or England , we don't have 10 parties every saturday to choose from
Except the last 2 seasons in salonika,where we had more parties,usually there are 2 or 3 parties per month...
Quote:

On 2005-04-06 11:44, eternal motion wrote:
Trust and reliability is usualy the real "contract" here


well said           Aει ο θεος ο μεγας γεωμετρει το συμπαν = 3,1415926
wicc@


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  500
Posted : Apr 24, 2005 23:01
sor to bring that post forward, but is the right place to say something i have 2say. uk, my friend movek, has 10 parties, but the 8 of them cost u 2 pounds to get in, and the other 2 maybe gets to 15 pounds. donation partieslike this we never had in ATHENS, exept some free ONLY from the team of KENO,(i respect much the guys , cose kept the idea of gathering),so how, u expect wit th entrance of 25 euro to have 10 party-the ppl dont go out anymore..not enough ppl to fill many dancefloors...lol...this for athens is an old story i kno!
i wana post this here better than post it in the party's page, i went to this party (i don wana tell, cose 1 of the organisers is friend, and is not his fault) , i went to the entrance, cose i happen to pass from the place (i didnt have plans to go), and i went to ask IF my friend was playin at that time...U kno, wat the answer was??........dont step here, cose u dont have ticket!!!only with ticket you STEP here!..and didnt even bother to ANSWER me about my friend..u can understand me, after this, and a fullmoon night, i fly like butterfly frm the place./.
AND i wana ask, where is the party atmosphere?, like good old days?//where..
yes, nice question, how things work in greece, cose i lost th answer..
salonika better 4sure..athens....aaaaaaaarhhhhh!
jejejeje
open your minds as a friend say
i fed up to see in discussion bout parties, the money sector writen over and over
no party theme
marketing theme
we no have to blame the cobs all the time, better blame upurselves first?
we have beauty country, but..

pano


Started Topics :  9
Posts :  140
Posted : Apr 24, 2005 23:11
Love your english wicc@

Simple answer to a simple question:

Who things work?

They dont
wicc@


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  500
Posted : Apr 25, 2005 02:27
yes pano, who works is not the point, the point is, i just ask a question and i expected an answer to This question, not no step on...the grass?..hehe
anyway
peace
&boom
*************
keep it friendly
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Trance Forum » » Forum  Greece - How things work in Greece?

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