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how legal..
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 4, 2003 23:38
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Well I can't speak for anyone else but myself and I have NEVER stolen another artists music and released it... I have used fragments of samples and distorted the original sample.... which is legal as long as it's not regionisable......So yes some artists may do remixes and bootlegs and release it without permisssion but I can assure you that it's very few! Can you say that it's only a few people that share and steal our music? Think before you write such nonsense to defend download habbits.
And for playing other peoples music at parties..... Remixes or bootlegs... well I haven't done any of those remixes or bootlegs yet and I can assure you if I do I will try my best to get permission to play the remix/bootleg from the original artist if or when I do such remixes/bootlegs.... If I cant get the permission I wont use it..... So think before you start to accuse us ! |
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Drope
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
278
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 02:14
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Sorry EP, I think u got it the wrong way, it was never directed at u... I still think the post has a point but I´ll edit it cause I´m not here to step on anybody´s toes...
I deeply respect u and ur music m8.
as one |
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Drope
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
278
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 02:23
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Sorry again, I was going to edit it but I went throught it, and I´m not... I really think it has a point... I´m not saying anybody in particular do it... But u and me know it´s done... ur simple yes shows u know... And I´m not defending dl habbits either...
I´m just saying it´s morally equivalent.
Don´t care to explain ur self m8, cause I won´t care to judge u anyway 
PLURall |
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freakazoid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
334
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 10:24
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well, you all talked about taking the name and music from a known musical source, and like EP said a permission is probably needed, what about movie samples? those don't need permission?
 Super-teen extraordinaire Freakazoid! Freakazoid!
Runs around in underwear Freakazoid! Freakazoid!
Rescues Washington D.C. Freakazoid! Freakazoid!
Unless something better's on TV Freakazoid! Freakazoid! |
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planet_zohar
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
116
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 11:49
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as long as u change the original sample its ok i think. btw - i dont think that mark knopler know who 1200 mics are.
let's take a walk on the proogy side |
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Anak
Anakoluth
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
2395
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 11:55
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i agree here...
releasing this track might probbly be a very bad idea.
but to do it illegaly is the only chance to get it released....how much do u think knopfler would have wanted 1200 mics to pay? x000? x0000? or maybe x00000???
not to forget these institutions (in switzerland its called Suisa) that take money from bands that play coverversions in parties etc. if one of these finds out about it...good night mister ram. Anakoluth A Pebble in Your Eardrum's Shoe since 2001!
http://www.myspace.com/anakoluth
http://www.ektoplazm.com/profiles/anakoluth/
http://cronomi.com |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 15:03
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Quote:
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On 2003-10-05 10:24, freakazoid wrote:
well, you all talked about taking the name and music from a known musical source, and like EP said a permission is probably needed, what about movie samples? those don't need permission?
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as long as they last less than 17 seconds.. or something like that..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 15:26
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Copyright
The first step is to understand the relevant copyright issues. There are generally three copyrights in a musical recording:
1. Copyright in the musical work. This is generally owned by the musician who composed the song, or their music publisher;
2. Copyright in any lyrics. This may or may not be owned by the same person who owns the copyright in the musical works; and
3. Copyright in the sound recording of the musical work. This is generally owned by the person or company who paid for the recording, often the record company that released the sound recording.
Copyright means that the owner has a bundle of exclusive rights, including the right to make reproductions of all, or a substantial part, of that musical work, lyric or sound recording. This means that if you copy, without permission, a ‘substantial part’ of a musical work, lyric or sound recording, copyright in which is owned by someone else, you have infringed that person’s copyright.
What is a ‘substantial part’? Can it be a short sample of a few notes? This is the $64 million question, and the aspect of sampling that generates the most heat and light amongst lawyers. A rough rule is that if the sample is something that is recognisable, and it is appealing enough for you to want to use, it is probably substantial enough to attract copyright protection. The length of sample is not necessarily relevant - it is quality that matters, not quantity.
Interestingly, there is not much case law on this point as most allegations of copyright infringement through sampling are settled by negotiation, which often involves the payment of a royalty to the owner of the sampled work. Generally record companies are nervous about taking these matters to court because of cost and uncertainty, because they do not want the court to set an unfavourable precedent, and because they may have many artists themselves who use samples. |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 15:31
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What should you do?
If you want to use a sample in a song you may need to get that sample cleared. This means contacting the relevant copyright owner and requesting a licence (permission) from them to allow you to use the sample.
You will need to make your own judgment according to the circumstances, but the factors you will need to consider in deciding when permission is required are the distinctiveness of the sample, the prominence of your use of the sample, and the extent of your use. Obviously, greater caution is required for a global release, than if you are getting 500 copies made to sell at gigs, even though the copyright issues are the same.
If you are dealing with a record company, they always (yeah sure) insist on a warranty that your recordings will not infringe anyone else’s copyright, and an indemnity from you stating that you will be responsible for any losses they may suffer if you breach your warranty. Sometimes you can negotiate with the record company so that they will pay the costs of sample clearances (although these costs will generally be recouped by the record company from your future royalties).
When should you seek permission? It is better to do it at a time when you can remove the sample if you can’t reach agreement with the copyright owner. If the record has already been released, and the copyright holder realises they have got you over a barrel, you can expect to pay accordingly. And there is also that old music lawyers’ saying — ‘first the hit, then the writ’. On the other hand, your request will alert the other party to your use of the sample when it might have otherwise gone unnoticed. If they refuse to grant you a licence, and you use the sample anyway, this may go against you later when you may wish to argue that a clearance was not necessary as the sample was not substantial. Again, you will need to make your own judgment according to the circumstances. |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 15:35
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Securing a licence
The first step is to determine who the relevant copyright owner is. If you use a sample of a recording you will need to obtain permission from the owners of the musical work, the lyrics (if relevant) and the sound recording. If you re-record part of the musical work yourself you will not need to clear this with the owner of the sound recording. Remember that you may be dealing with two separate parties, generally a record company and a music publisher, in relation to the one sample.
National music organisations may be able to assist you in tracking down the relevant parties. There are also a number of firms or lawyers who can negotiate a licence for you. There is no standard fee in relation to sample licences. It is completely a matter for negotiation between the parties. Payment can be a flat fee, a royalty or a combination of these.
Generally you will require a non-exclusive licence, in perpetuity, throughout the world. If you wish to ensure that no-one else will be granted permission to use the sample, you may seek an exclusive licence, although this may be difficult to obtain.
It is very important to make sure that you are dealing with the right person - that is, that they are actually entitled to grant you the licence. It is essential that you must, as part of the licence, obtain a warranty from them that they own all copyright in the material that they are licensing to you and that the licence will not infringe the rights of any third party. They must also indemnify you against any losses that you might suffer as a result of their breach of this warranty. Finally, make sure you have got original copies of the paper work, signed by all parties, stored in a safe place for future reference if necessary.
Happy sampling! |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 5, 2003 15:36
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Sorry for the long posts 
Copyright law is complex!
Hope it will clarify the legal terms eventhough it's a jungle out there. |
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technoid
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
230
Posted : Oct 6, 2003 03:11
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Sorry to be faecetious but the question that sprung to my mind was "Why the hell would anyone want to sample Dire Straits in the first place"? A surefire contender for worst band of all time if ever there was one!
"One nation under a groove". |
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Inu
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
91
Posted : Oct 6, 2003 05:09
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What kind of artist obeys the law?
No, seriously. What part does written permission play in the creative process? Tell me, I'd like to know.
tiger got to hunt,
bird got to fly,
man got to sit and wonder why, why, why?
tiger got to sleep,
bird got to land,
man got to tell himself he understand. |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Oct 6, 2003 10:08
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Quote:
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On 2003-10-06 03:11, technoid wrote:
Sorry to be faecetious but the question that sprung to my mind was "Why the hell would anyone want to sample Dire Straits in the first place"? A surefire contender for worst band of all time if ever there was one!
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it's not like they suck or something like that.
They are just the most bored band on the planet without any real contenders.
Something between Van Halen and ZZ Top.
Music for people without personality.
Bahh.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 6, 2003 10:27
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The last 2 posts are perfect examples of narrowminded taste judging in my opinion. |
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