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Free will
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
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3803
Posted : Feb 1, 2009 23:28:29
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Is it possible? I'm personally leaning towards "everything's written in the stars" but I'm hoping (free will?) to be disproved somehow. 
  "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Jedi_knight
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
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620
Posted : Feb 2, 2009 22:05
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Even if everything is written in the stars you are sure that you can read them perfectly?
Don't count on it...
Anyway you have the free will to change the writtings...
---RealPsyLifeForRealPsyPeople--- |
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kameleonpangea36
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
77
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537
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 00:34
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earthling
Started Topics :
0
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5
Posted : Feb 8, 2009 04:04
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even your free will is written in the stars... |
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bbgun
Started Topics :
2
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741
Posted : Feb 8, 2009 05:16
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What do you mean by written in the stars? I hope you don't mean astrology.
Capability, hard work, passion, persistence and luck. They combine well to produce success imo |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
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3803
Posted : Feb 8, 2009 22:27
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-08 05:16, bbgun wrote:
What do you mean by written in the stars? I hope you don't mean astrology.
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Lol no
I mean that the big bang triggered every single action (to come) through the system of cause and effect. You'd need to be a supernatural agent to somehow counter this, no?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
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2268
Posted : Feb 9, 2009 02:02
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Quantum mechanics introduced the uncertainty principle, from which can be derived that nothing is 100% predictable. A certain electron jumps from point A to point B, and a nerve cell does not reach a point in which action is triggered. Because of this, a thought is somewhat altered, and you miss the solution in 60 seconds for a game show, etc. This could not have been predicted prior to the event.
You may have no "control" over your life, but it was not preordained... there's just no allowance for such certainty in physics.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
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3803
Posted : Feb 9, 2009 15:24
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-09 02:02, Kaz wrote:
Quantum mechanics introduced the uncertainty principle, from which can be derived that nothing is 100% predictable. A certain electron jumps from point A to point B, and a nerve cell does not reach a point in which action is triggered. Because of this, a thought is somewhat altered, and you miss the solution in 60 seconds for a game show, etc. This could not have been predicted prior to the event.
You may have no "control" over your life, but it was not preordained... there's just no allowance for such certainty in physics.
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It's been argued that in quantum world things only appear probabilistic and that there are (still) "hidden" variables that determine the outcome in an absolute way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism#Determinism.2C_quantum_mechanics.2C_and_classical_physics
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Feb 9, 2009 16:55
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Quote:
| On 2009-02-09 15:24, traveller wrote:
It's been argued that in quantum world things only appear probabilistic and that there are (still) "hidden" variables that determine the outcome in an absolute way. |
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That very may well be. But that does NOT change the fact that no experiment has been able to refute the uncertainty principle. But you are assuming that there are non-local, hidden, general variables. So far none of the experiments that support the claim that "all is preordained" do NOT escape the uncertainty principle as a general truism.
On a long enough time line the universe will eventually become without energy, just particles scattered around space, completely lifeless. The end result of the universe may be preordained - but that does not mean that the way there already happened 
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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|RoYeC|
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
31
Posts :
814
Posted : Feb 9, 2009 18:30
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The only free will you have is to choose the people that surround you choose them well!!
-=[PsYcHeDeL|C Music it's Fantastic]=- |RoYeC| |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
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1707
Posted : Feb 9, 2009 20:26
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I agree more with the position of the irrelevance of discussing free will.
Both determinist and non determinist have strong arguments and the discussion leads nowhere.
And doesnt solve any particular problem either.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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nomadics
Started Topics :
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95
Posted : Feb 9, 2009 22:29
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questions in metaphysics have generally gone nowhere. much of philosophy has in fact directed itself away from such questions (ie postmodernism). BUt in the long run, i dont think it has been a waste of time to discuss issues of free-will, the mind, 'truth' etc.. it's produced innovative ideas from some of my fave thinkers like Sartre. I dont think the man is right, but he wrote some damn challenging, creative stuff about freedom.
as to my opinion, i dont think we have a radical freedom that allows us to do direct our actions ALL the time. we are very much constrained and influenced in our choices. but there is a balance somewhere i think. we can choose to accept our condition, whatever it may be, and go from there.
cheers
quantum frog, ca |
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lazydazy
Started Topics :
4
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30
Posted : Feb 11, 2009 07:16
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-01 23:28:29, traveller wrote:
Is it possible? I'm personally leaning towards "everything's written in the stars" but I'm hoping (free will?) to be disproved somehow.
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Yea me too think that "everything's written in the stars"! But there are ways out, different occult ways of dealing these "stars" and impose ure free will over them ! |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Feb 12, 2009 12:25
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we have exactly as much free will as the quantums:). do the quantums have a free will, what do you think?:)
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Jedi_knight
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
620
Posted : Feb 21, 2009 01:12
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Free will: The most limitless freedom in the universe!!!
Can you imagine the planets having free will?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM every second...!
---RealPsyLifeForRealPsyPeople--- |
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