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does anyone still mix off DAT?

Ott^
OTT

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  488
Posted : Aug 28, 2005 09:17
Funny enough I was thinking about this while reading a thread in the chillout section...



Quote:
Incidentally, I remember when trance DJs used to play from DAT machines and beatmixing was virtually impossible. The effect of this was that each tune inhabited it's own space and was distinct from the ones before and after it. Tempos ranged from 125 bpm to 150 bpm and styles were many and various.

These days each tune seems to blur into the next and gives the effect [to my ears anyway] of listening to one long 24 hour 144 bpm tune without a break.




I think I preferred it back then when technique was irrelevant and vibe was everything.

Giuseppe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  17
Posts :  147
Posted : Aug 28, 2005 13:29
I also think that the feeling is more important then the technique.....
Today where everything is showin off lots of ppl is just concerned about the mixing skill and that it is not what is about.
What is most important is the choise of the tracks, I do enjoy a party because of that and not for the ego-trip of the dj who is showing how good he/she is.
Everything is so superficial today and also in our scene it is like that.
I will allways prefer the heart to the mind

Giuseppe
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1114
Posted : Aug 28, 2005 16:15
@Guiseppe

Howdi - We used to work together once, if you remember, at city sleep in We went to VooV 99 together also, this is Lars Just that you know

Now, on to the subject at hand.

Of course, the music itself is the most important thing, however, you are missing one important point - One thing (technique) does not exclude the other (trackselection).

You can mix perfectly and choose the best tracks if you are a good DJ.

If you are a good DJ, why not mix the music perfectly as well as play the best music ?

DJing is about balancing out many aspects of presenting music - Not being able to mix it so that the music will function most effectively means that you are out of balance in that area.

Very basic, heres how I see it.
Good mixing = Good Djing = FALSE
Good track selection = Good DJing = FALSE
Good track selection + Good mixing = Good DJing = TRUE
Good Track Selection + Good mixing + Good Flow = Excellent DJ = TRUE

Moving beyond that thought - The fact still is, one does not exclude the other. Also, with the amount of DJs in the scene nowadays, since the liberation of the music (wide track selection is now not only available to DAT djs copying everything they can get their hands on) we now have Djs who will mix perfectly, and play great interesting tracks + in an order which creates a beautiful flow and in a quality that the music deserves.

Like I wrote earlier, if people do not mind lousy mixing, they wont mind a DAT DJ - If they value great mixing they will value a DJ that uses a media from which he can do perfect mixes / in which he is in control of the pitch.
Everybody who loves the music, will want great track selection regardless of the mixing. However, when you mix 2 tracks together, you become part of the music in that instant - Therefore, mixing is important to the music...

Quote Guiseppe
"I will allways prefer the heart to the mind "

Who wouldnt ? Also, you can mix with your heart as well. Sounds way better that way

Best Wishes & Hope you are well

Krell
          Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1114
Posted : Aug 28, 2005 16:40
Quote:

On 2005-08-28 09:17, Ott^ wrote:
Funny enough I was thinking about this while reading a thread in the chillout section...



Quote:
Incidentally, I remember when trance DJs used to play from DAT machines and beatmixing was virtually impossible. The effect of this was that each tune inhabited it's own space and was distinct from the ones before and after it. Tempos ranged from 125 bpm to 150 bpm and styles were many and various.

These days each tune seems to blur into the next and gives the effect [to my ears anyway] of listening to one long 24 hour 144 bpm tune without a break.




I think I preferred it back then when technique was irrelevant and vibe was everything.





I usually change the tempo a few times in my sets, usually by using outro -> intro fades - Variation in mixing is IMO better than using the same technique for every mix.

I even find fade mixing just as demanding as beatmixing now.
Often starting a fade mix with the channel open, you dont get a chance to listen to the mix before you execute it. So, if you fuck it up, everybody will hear.

Technique is IMO a part of the vibe - also, technique is only a problem if its not good.
So, if a DJ has lousy technique, I think organizers should encourage him to improve and then book someone who knows how to mix. (theres plenty of them out there).

Everything isnt so black and white like you want to make it Great vibe is the sum of it all, technique is one of the things that you sum up into the vibe.
Some of the great DJs of old time had great technique - Suzuki, Shanti, Joti etc.

However, I know for sure that in some psy "sub scenes" they dont give a damn about the mixing - Everything is relaxed, the details are not so important. (not only mixnig, but other stuff as well)...
So, I dont think these "vibe is everything -> good vibe comes from everything being relaxed / unimportant" events are lost at all.

If I was to point to one thing thats a problem with taking every little detail very serious then it would be that some artists might not feel safe & free to experiment in that environment since people perhaps will not accept what they do and judge them harshly for doing it.
However, thats not a Djing thing, thats a music creation thing.

Just a few many thoughts

Best Wishes

Krell
          Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca
Giuseppe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  17
Posts :  147
Posted : Aug 28, 2005 22:41
Hi Krell/ Lars,
sure i remember you now hope your are well too !

I full agree with your point of vew. Good dj have the feeling and the technique. They are both important.....and i also think that variation of mixing style during a set is really nice: same tracks have soooo nice intro or outro that it is a schame to cut them away....
I wanted to say that i would prefer for my party enjoyment a nice track selection with bad mixing rather then bad track selection (for my taste of course) mixed with good skill!

Giuseppe
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1114
Posted : Aug 29, 2005 00:51
@Giuseppe

Yes, crappy music doesnt get any better by it being mixed together well Its just well mixed crappy music then heheh.

Perhaps its more difficult to put critique on a well mixing DJ, since music taste is a matter of personal opinion - Still I find myself bitching about track selection MUCH more often than I do with mixing technique really.

Quote Giuseppe
"same tracks have soooo nice intro or outro that it is a schame to cut them away.... "

I very much agree - When I prepare a set I will usually listen thru intros of tracks and rate them to find out who is the best candidate for a outro->intro mix - or perhaps to be the first or the last track.

This is also where psytrance differs a lot from house or techno... Psytrance has intros and outros, the other genres just start off BOM BOM BOM most of the time.

I hope the last DAT jockeys out there will shift to CD, and really get into what it can do for their mixing. Its not hard to learn and its not like you HAVE to beatmatch everything just because its CD.

Most of the other DJs I know think that being able to mix the music in different ways makes it alot more fun to play. You can be more creative.



Krell

          Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca
setidat


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  42
Posted : Aug 29, 2005 22:39
i still play with DATS not allways only in goa trance partys.
i have two tcd-d8 dat decks and almost my goa trance tracks are in DAT ....is litle more complicated to play but a can make a clean set u cant notice any error at all!!!

          Setidat from INTERGALACTIC FEDERATION @ TURTLE SYSTEMS
Fingax
Cosmic Station

Started Topics :  82
Posts :  1235
Posted : Aug 30, 2005 00:49
Quote:

On 2005-08-25 20:23, Janux wrote:
... and second you're loosing a generation anyway.



There is no such thing in the digital domain..
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  2899
Posted : Aug 30, 2005 03:55
Offtopic but still...

the right music at the right time of the party does it..
doesnt matter if its played from DAT, CD or Vinyl.
but when ur in trance a mad trainwreck mix could destroy the trip for a whole lot of ppl so i prefer cd or vinyl instead of DAT since i cant make it sound smooth with dat but i guess alot of people can and do so let them =) Respect

Another thing that crossed my mind are laptop dj's
Where is the feeling in that?


Press play and fuck off.
(hope i didnt offend to many by saying that.)
Junya(Eskimo)
Eskimo

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  133
Posted : Aug 31, 2005 19:23
Dj Domino in Japan plays from dat still...

Guess she found a store where blank dats are cheaper than blank cds....or she loaded....


Junya(Eskimo)
Eskimo

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  133
Posted : Aug 31, 2005 19:26
and for krell i see what you mean about the mixing thing,

but back then, it was all about the tunes, the mixing was a nice add on, but the tunes made the dj....
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1114
Posted : Aug 31, 2005 22:05
@Junya

Qoute Junya
" but back then, it was all about the tunes, the mixing was a nice add on, but the tunes made the dj...."

The most well known DJs of the 1995-1997 era were all quite good mixers. Like I wrote, Sid Shanti, Joti Sidhu, Jean Borelli, Dino Psaras, Paul Oakenfold, DJ Sangeet and so forth - they used CD og Vinyl AFAIK.

I do not totally disagree with you either - Since back then, as a psytrance DJ you wouldnt have as much music available to you as you do now. (the above mentioned where attached to labels and got promos).

The reason for the lack of music compared to nowadays was, that there where far less CDs being released... To achieve a bit more exclusive track selection the beginner Dj could turn to vinyl, since many people stuck with buying CDs - But, you would still be very much behind the DAT DJs when it came to having a lot of music to choose from.
Another thing was the musics sound evolved faster than now, your music could quickly become antiquated next to the DAT pirates who would just delete a tape a record new hits.

Also, due to the fact that the people going to the parties where more able to remember the different tracks (due to less music to remember) you could as a DAT DJ spin unreleased music, something that was harder to obtain if you didnt have a DAT.

So, DAT Djs could make a sales points such as "I have lotsa unreleased killers" and "I have a wide track selection"... All the while many CD og Vinyl psytrance DJs hadnt even perfected their mixing skills at that stage... At least, I heard a lot of crappy mixing (including my own).

It was actually COOL to play DATs - A DAT DJ was sort of a title - and, people would aften write "DAT" after their tracks in charts just to show off the media.

Weird

Best Wishes

Krell

          Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca
Juzam

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  5
Posted : Aug 31, 2005 23:40
Dj Missing Inka ,in Spain still playing on DAT.
The Old School generation, that we can consider masters of trance, this generation who started the explosion of the movement in the 60's-70's.
Much respect for that.

Juzam,The Virus
-------------------
www.virus-tekk.com
Black Cat
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  16
Posts :  1390
Posted : Sep 2, 2005 21:49
Teo didn't switched over to cd...
at the end of this season in goa his dat didin't work ...so that's why he play with cd!
HandA
Inactive User

Started Topics :  9
Posts :  890
Posted : Sep 2, 2005 22:05
Quote:

On 2005-08-31 22:05, Krell wrote:
The most well known DJs of the 1995-1997 era were all quite good mixers. Like I wrote, Sid Shanti, Joti Sidhu, Jean Borelli, Dino Psaras, Paul Oakenfold, DJ Sangeet and so forth - they used CD og Vinyl AFAIK.



That depend mate.

I have played with all mentioned DJ's many times and it all came down to where the parties were located. If it was in very warm Countries and of course outdoor we all played DAT simply because vinyl did not work to well. It would simply melt in the sun. Also due to the fact that many parties went on much longer at those days and therefore got exposed to lot's of sun.

I did not see many CD's being played at that time because they were way more expensive than DAT's and nobody really had CD burners as everybody got today.

I have to say it's actually possible to beatmix on DAT's if you have the experience and know your DAT machines well plus know the BPM of the tracks. I did it many times and I know other DJ's who did it.
It's also possible to make very nice floating mixes with DAT's. NOT as Goa Gil haha It just take experience and a good feeling about mixing and the most important thing is to know your tracks well.

Even though I play with vinyl and CD's (as I have done from day one with vinyl) and also beatmix today I stil stronly think that a DJ that select the right tracks at the right time and have some skill in mixing the tracks so the mixes dont interfere in the journey are to be prefered over a technical very good DJ that just dont got the connection with the Dancefloor. At the end of the day what makes a good DJ is his or her ability to communicate with the Dancefloor.
Trance Forum  Forum  Trance - does anyone still mix off DAT?
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