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D16 PUNCHBOX

TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Jun 21, 2016 22:14:34
check this: http://d16.pl/punchbox





Will it be the non plus ultra kick drum machine?

I thaught I buy Bazzism next but than I found Kick 2 by Sonic Acadamy, which I actually like more. The "better" thing is you can assign the pitch straight to a note. So you can forget some charts with frequency numbers etc.Also you can shape the harmonics of the kick in a simple way.

Now as Punchbox should come soon I think I wait for a demo and not gonna buy either Bazzism or Kick 2. It looks so promising.

Not sure if it can pitch it enough though or if the pitch is somehow limited to just an octave or just two maybe.
But that looks like a beast for making own kicks.
What do you think about this one?
          https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Jun 23, 2016 17:29
Somehow the looks of it remind me of Reason a bit, and not in the best possible way (cof cof)... But I wouldn't imagine they'd limit the pitch modulation amount range so low, it would be rather silly to do so - even 4 octaves is feels like meh for this (and that's all you get with some synths...). At least the likes of Bazzism and Kick 2 (that you mentioned) can use the full spectrum, no problemo. Some post treatment and you're done.

If they go so far as to properly emulate the Rolandish modules, so as to make they wooble a bit, or if they make it to heavy on resources, which pretty much looks like (call it intuition, but fancy graphics always strike me as cpu intensive stuff).

P.S. How's the frequency adventures going these days? Not surfing the webs as much as usual. Cheers
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Jun 23, 2016 19:33
Hey buddy here is definetly a proper chart :

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-notenames.htm

It is one of the best "sides" if not universes of expertise knowledge in audio engineering worldwide.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/

the webside looks very poor but the knowledge inside is golden. Check it out!

And Punchbox has been released today but 79 is a bit much for today though. I gonna demo it soon.           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Jun 25, 2016 23:42
I demoed it and its awesome. I think I'll buy this one soon. Really like it. I think its best, so versatile, just a deeply dedicated thing for making kicks. Fun Factor           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Aug 26, 2016 16:50
I stick back to Bazille and sometimes Retro. I think Bazille gives most control to shape a kick and more different possible methods and variaty to reach an accpetable result but anyhow most other VSTi's do well too. Still sometimes I'm curious to check some plug ins that are dedicated to kicks.           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Sep 5, 2016 17:34
Yes, Bazille can produce some wild Kicks. I like using the filter for this rather then the oscillators.

But somehow I feel stuff like Kick 2 gives you much more control over it. The pitch line that allows you to snap to any note of your choice along the way, in many points, is indeed a very clever move and the flexibility with the click part of the Kick is also beyond what used to be normal. Put this all combined, and I really feel like a dedicated Kick synth is indeed a good idea and a very practical thing to have.

Not saying you can't get good enough kicks without this stuff, which of course you can, it's just that with it you can get there faster. (btw, still to try new retrologue for kicks... will try it in a minute or so)

If you're anything like me, then you've probably resampled one of those synth Kicks (thousands of times) and added another pitch shift, with an envelope on your sampler of choice to it. Add to that the need to layer some click and all the additional processing... Then this dedicated solutions really start shinning with their straight to the point interface and features - and, it's several times faster and practical!

frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Sep 5, 2016 17:36
p.s. I still think Logic's Ultrabeat is one of the best synths for making Kicks there is, besides this Kick 2 (simply 'cause of the added control on the pitch shift curve). It's really just as good as bazzism if not better.
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Sep 16, 2016 13:32
yeah Ultrabeat is all you need in Logic for kicks for sure. Recently I got a great kick out of Retrologue probably my favourite self made so far. It works in Retro definetly.

I found it interesting and inspiring to process the audio bounced synthesized kick even further with offline cubase pitch shift, what you described etc. No, I haven't done it that way so far. Looking forward to this method. So far I'm finally a bit satisfied with my kicks fully done in softsynths but it's a learning process still going on. I feel I need to learn more and become much more certain about it. Infact I spend quite a time to get a kick I like. Often its because of eq and comp processings and the hardest thing is to make k and b work great together. I found Kick 2 by Romero also intersting, have now installed it but it's hard for me to get out of old habbits (producing kicks in Bazille or Retro).           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
APriest


Started Topics :  2
Posts :  98
Posted : Apr 7, 2017 07:05
I tried Kick2 and the result is good, better than expected.
Using filters self-oscillation is more experimental and funny, Kick2 is very simple and fast, simpler than Bazzism.           www.thepriest.site11.com - Freeware plugins
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Apr 8, 2017 15:21
Quote:

On 2017-04-07 07:05, APriest wrote:
I tried Kick2 and the result is good, better than expected.
Using filters self-oscillation is more experimental and funny, Kick2 is very simple and fast, simpler than Bazzism.




To me it's the opposite: You can even dial in values in Bazzism and get a good Kick going in seconds, whilst with Kick 2 I'm pushed towards being much more careful about how that pitch curve progresses throughout and how it affects the sound. It's like comparing a simple envelope with adjustable curve/slope to a multi-stage envelope, more like a bezier curve whose notes you can snap to keyboard pitch values and go as precise as you want with the actual curve and how it progresses.

On top of that, there's a myriad of other things you can do with it, like using a filter pushed into self-oscillation, using saturation/distortion, pushing the signal into the soft distortion or limiter... And you have many layers of perfectly adjustable noise, it even allows you to load your own samples if you want.

So in sound design terms, I'd say that Bazzism gives you the standard 808 Kick with easy control, a nice envelope system for the amp, a very simple, almost feels like an afterthought (no pun intended) noise layer and a frankly not so exciting inner distortion; while Kick 2 allows you to synthesize much more complex sounds due to the huge differences in architecture.

Many times I see no problem in using a more simple, rather classic Kick and a bit of layer work does the job quite well.



TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Apr 15, 2017 17:38
Kick 2 is great for sure. Lots of usefull options.
Here is sth I made out of Bazille. All made in Bazille (Hats, bass kick etc).
This is just my first stage of production. So nothing more than trying to make a kick so far - no eq, no comps, no real concept and nothing on the master so far. This one is a very standard kick though. What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1fxmnpptps2hiv/Bazille%20Kick%20%26%20rest.mp3?dl=0           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Apr 15, 2017 22:30
I think it's sounding good man!

I think in order to get it sounding more like a modern Kick, it's all about what kind of click you layer with the "standard (808) kick" you have going atm. Maybe a little saturation as well.

When adding the layer, to compress it together, maybe with a tube compressor or something, would bring the layers together, while perhaps also gently adding some saturation/harmonics. All adds up. But I like your approach: paying attention to the original sounds/sources is the way to go imo.

TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Apr 16, 2017 22:14
I'll try the idea with a tube compressor on the K&B group and will experiment with gentle saturation just on the kick itself or colouring the click-osc somehow better.
Cheers for the feedback and advice mate!           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Apr 17, 2017 17:38
Yes, that would work out great on the group as well! With good enough sources, it shouldn't even take much more then that. Makes it more cohesive, like one, adds some upper harmonics, changes the volume shape a little bit, just enough so that the pointer starts behaving like the hand of an EDM DJ playing tomorrow land: just really grooving along with the beat.

But on the other post, I meant a compressor to blend the layers together. In this case, I'd probably also go for a different compressor, with a longer attack, so as to define a common transient for the layers. Same applies for EQ. Sticking a Pultec emu in there is never a bad idea.

As for the click itself, people are probably doing a whole deal more to it nowadays then they used to. But what I think it all boils down to is adding the right texture. What I mean by that is to add something that not only makes the Kick easier to find in a mix, which from a mixing perspective, is what the click is for, but also to push the sound in a direction, even if it's just a very subtle suggestion, that includes a hint of some material, or space or whatever you want; where it's not just some perfectly round sine wave that's been pitch bent into an 808 kick - which sounds almost too perfect and lacks the grainy texture, the noise floor, the bleeding of some ambience into the mic... all the things that would be present in a real recording and that we miss with our overly clean and controlled sounds. Convolution also comes to mind.

I see the click being mentioned all the time as merely a way of emphasizing the transient and giving more presence to the sound (which would translate as adding something that's got energy around 1.2k or roundabouts), just to help the sound cut through a busy mix. I don't see much mention of the importance of texture and hints of materiality.



TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Apr 17, 2017 20:29
Ah ok, got it now. Tried it out and it sounds definetly different and kick comes better through with the glue compressor on it - to glue both layers together of find a nice sweet spot. Nice how different the sound can change. I see lots of room for experimentation just with the comp as you said. Very interesting and ispiring!
          https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
Trance Forum  Forum  Music Software - D16 PUNCHBOX

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