supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 4, 2009 16:42
when you are bored and need some more attention from the crowd to notice you are the superstar dj!
J
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 5, 2009 01:42
Quote:
On 2009-07-04 16:42, supergroover wrote:
when you are bored and need some more attention from the crowd to notice you are the superstar dj!
Fits you Napo.
full_on
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jul 5, 2009 23:54
Wrong! When I need some attention what I do is unzip! Respect!
.
...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
.
...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell...
kahn
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Posted : Jul 8, 2009 09:01
Don't listen to the naysayers, the CDJ effects can be used, and it can be awesome.
In many other genres in the electronic music and DJing scene, you see effects overused to death. But I think that in psy, people generally stay off of them.
I think that if used well, they do add some nice "spit and polish" to a set.
One thing I like to do is combine mixer effects with the CDJ effects. The fact that you control the effects with the jog wheel, I think gives it some more tactile flexibility; in that it feels like you're playing some kind of hardware instrument... so you can use them often to create sub beats and add to the flow. The mixer effects are usually more mechanical sounding (being on set time envelopes and whatnot), and so the two different types of effects often mesh well.
For instance, sometimes I'll be using a flanger on the mixer, leave it on, and then I'll start doing mini "flanges" with the Jet effect on the CDJ... this creates a stacked flange effect that works nicely.
Generally speaking, use them when they "feel right." Don't use them just to use them. Use them if they genuinely add to the music. At the edge of a build up, a good flange or jet sounds GREAT. During a breakdown a filter/Wah can be amazing! But don't just follow my rules, experiment a bit!
The important thing is that you remember to use them sparingly. They only add suspense if you use them as a teaser.
And remember, effects never MAKE a DJ set. You should be able to mix PERFECTLY without any effects whatsoever. If you're playing bad tracks, no effect is going to make it sound good. If you're playing good tracks, the effects might be nice, but then they can also take away from the track.
Also, be aware that higher end Pioneers do not have the effects built into the CDJ's, so don't depend on them. And learn how to utilize mixer effects as well.
Shiranui
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Posted : Jul 8, 2009 10:17
The EQs, volume fader, crossfader and phono/line switch can be just as good "effects" as actual effects if you learn how to manipulate them in ways that sound good, and that way your tricks will work on any setup
rich
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Posted : Jul 9, 2009 03:16
I used to use the Zip effect, winding it down to a stop to create a pause-like break.
mudpeople
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Posted : Jul 10, 2009 12:29
Never is actually good advice, so many decent tracks can be ruined by effects that stick out like a sore thumb. Effects, IMO, should never be obvious, and if they are to be used must be used carefully and sparingly. Too much, and it really distracts from the flow.
If, though, one were to use effects, as I often do using my CDJ-100s (theyre just too tempting), they should be used to accent elements of the track itself.
I use the 'Jet', which is really a flanger, to accent high-end sweeps, percussion fills, and such, things that usually fall at the end of a 32-beat phrase, around the time you'd press Play on the track you're bringing in. A lot of tracks have a space where something in the track, bass, percussion, whatnot, cut out right at the end of the 32 beats. Im sure you know what I mean if you're at least slightly experienced. Using the Jet in the middle of a 32 beat phrase can be ok, but as a whole, IMO, usually sounds wrong, off somehow. Also, if the track has very little in the way of high end, using the Jet can create high ends, which will stick out with that distinctive WhoooSH noise. Im thinking in particular of certain tracks by MidiMiliz with tons of bass elements but little highs.
The Wah is really a filter, both high-pass and low-pass, left for low, right for high. I like to use it during breaks, for example if the kick/bass comes in before the major drop at the end of the track, I can cut it out with the Wah and sorta bring it slowly in and out. This is even more obvious than the Jet because, on a big system, the boom-boom will be cut, sorta like if you forget to crank the bass band on the EQ back to normal. But, if the track is the right track, cutting the bass, either high or low, can sound cool IMO.
The 'Zip' is my least favorite of the CDJ effects. It sticks out so badly I rarely use it, if ever. It basically is a pitch bender, which makes the track sound like its slowing or speeding up, without actually changing the speed of the track. It can be useful, you could use it to cut out the track you're bringing out while, for example, using the Wah on the track you're bringing in to have 2 sweeps as a blend or something like that. As for using the Zip during the major bulk of a track, IMO definitely not! It will sound too wrong, I think, to be of any use. I would say only use the Zip when the bass is either going out, coming in, or not present at all.
But, ultimately, the CDJ-100 effects (IDK if the other Pioneer models' effects sound the same) sound unique; meaning, they sound like CDJ-100 effects, and to anyone who has messed around w. them enough, they are instantly recognizable. All flangers are not, in fact, created equal.
IMO it also depends on your style of music, if you play harder stuff such as CPC, or Twisted System, or other such 'maximal' stuff, effects are easy to get away with, easy to sound good with and easy to cover up if they don't go as planned. But, a more 'airy' sound like Perfect Stranger or Cujorius One, the effects should be used very skillfully or not at all, as they will stick out even if one uses them carefully.
But if you can count beats well enough and understand the structure of trance well enough, and each specific track at least passably well enough then its easy to get away with effects. Key words being 'get away'. Being so noticeable they stick out to fellow djs, who will notice how well you do, and may or may not bust your balls for it.
So when in doubt don't do it. But play around for fun's sake and maybe get a feel for them.
.
Shiranui
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Posted : Jul 14, 2009 07:39
Here is an example, imo, of someone who knows how to use effects (although he mostly uses mixer effects. And yes, I know it's happy hardcore, get over it):
Hi,
If you ever play one of my songs, please never use them. If my songs had needed the fx or additional equalizing I would have added them myself. If you add them you will only make my songs worse.
Thats maybe the reason why DJs tend to say yes and Artists say tend to say no to those FX.
Mostly the audience who knows the songs say no to FX too by the way...
In my opinion if you need to play with FX to make music better then the music you are playing is maybe not good enough in the first place... or you are just making something good worse. So yes use them on improvable music (as in the video above) and no don't use them on good music... (shouldn't a good DJ be playing good music?)
I don't say no generally... it definitly works well with some music... maybe with "TRACKS" but it definitly doesn't work with "SONGS"...
If ever I'd say the a rule that definitly applys is: use it subtly, use it with caution, try to use it so that nobody notices you using them, so that it sounds as if it was original in the song...
In the end it comes down to how you see psytrance... If you are looking at psytrance songs like at musical pieces, artworks, stories then leave them as they are and play them from the beginning to end.
If you are looking at psytrance like other electronic styles as tracks, pieces of samples, tools for DJs that need to be recombined to be cool, then use FX.. in my opinion the latter is only in very few cases truly psychedelic, since a psychedelic song has to be arranged very carefully and a DJ can't do it usually.Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch
RK9
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Posted : Jul 14, 2009 10:47
Subconsciousmind, you're waaay high up on that ivory tower. Please come down and join us on the ground
Shiranui
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Posted : Jul 14, 2009 10:54
Quote:
On 2009-07-14 10:19, subconsciousmind wrote:
In my opinion if you need to play with FX to make music better then the music you are playing is maybe not good enough in the first place...
I think the best use of effects is to smooth a transition between songs, in which case this doesn't really apply.
Quote:
In the end it comes down to how you see psytrance... If you are looking at psytrance songs like at musical pieces, artworks, stories then leave them as they are and play them from the beginning to end.
The problem with doing that is that it creates a stopping point, a pause where the energy entirely disappears. This is why beatmatching was invented in the first place
Dennis the menace
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Posted : Jul 14, 2009 10:54
Quote:
Subconsciousmind, you're waaay high up on that ivory tower. Please come down and join us on the ground
Dennis the menace
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Posted : Jul 14, 2009 11:00
i wonder what scm thinks about his music being mixed with other tracks. that's more than just effects, maybe his music is for home listening or jukeboxes only.
Shiranui
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Posted : Jul 14, 2009 11:08
Quote:
On 2009-07-14 11:00, Dennis the menace wrote:
i wonder what scm thinks about his music being mixed with other tracks. that's more than just effects, maybe his music is for home listening or jukeboxes only.
He probably doesn't want DJs to play his tracks at all... you're supposed to bring him out for a "live" set if you want to hear his music at a party!
full_on
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Posted : Jul 14, 2009 13:18
Finally some constructive comments and some examples, that's what I was looking for with this thread. Thanks kahn, mudpeople and all others for that!
SCM got it from the wrong perspective IMO, I think (as Shiranui said) it is more relevant to know how to use the effects to make better track transitions, which will be probably when both tracks are being (or already) beatmatched.
Respect!
.
...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
.
...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell...
