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buy music you cheap skates(TRY THIS NEW TECHNIQUE)
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dirty 1
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
141
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 16:04
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anyone felt the wonders of working in a syndicate yet to buy and share music...or still no takers..
or download a track from beatport or trackitdown ect,but it may cost you £1.75(too much for some people,cheap skates!) |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 17:24
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On 2006-09-01 18:18, Pavel wrote:
Stop whining, open a shop with reasonably priced wav (or losless) downloads. Reasonable being 1$ a tune.
Yes, that's 10$ an album. The price that an online album should cost. Don't let assholes like Beatport rip you again like in the ol' school distro model.
And once again, stop whining and stop blaming everybody else. Spitting on clients is never a good idea. Client is always right.
And please, put good music in this store and not some half baked dark fruity loops psy creations. Top labels and top music that was supposed to go on plastic.
Iboga, Digital Structures, Twisted and Hommega.
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The winner.
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 18:22
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-19 17:24, basilisk wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-09-01 18:18, Pavel wrote:
Stop whining, open a shop with reasonably priced wav (or losless) downloads. Reasonable being 1$ a tune.
Yes, that's 10$ an album. The price that an online album should cost. Don't let assholes like Beatport rip you again like in the ol' school distro model.
And once again, stop whining and stop blaming everybody else. Spitting on clients is never a good idea. Client is always right.
And please, put good music in this store and not some half baked dark fruity loops psy creations. Top labels and top music that was supposed to go on plastic.
Iboga, Digital Structures, Twisted and Hommega.
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The winner.
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Nope, the winner:
www.audiolunchbox.com
I started buying there. Hope they expand their Psy/Electronica catalogue. The rest of the catalogue is a bit too obscure for me.
 Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 20, 2006 00:01
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a good idea would be somekind of idealistic, non-profit portal, where they have links to artists homepages and you can buy music directly from the artists... dunno about the legal issues here, but anyway..
this would be the fair thing..
i dont care so much for the labels, more for the artists.. its them who has to do something..
with todays technology we dont really need so many labels? or do we?
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Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
632
Posted : Sep 20, 2006 13:12
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I think people buy music that is worth it, right now with so many releases sounding the same it's difficult that you would buy a whole album and be happy you bought it. I think downloading is good nowadays with so many artists and music, so you can hear the music and then buy it if you think it's worth it...
Boom :)
SOUL KONTAKT - 12th Planet new track on www.myspace.com/soulkontakt
Soul Kontakt Live for demo or booking email soulkontakt@hotmail.com
www.soulkontakt.com |
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Shanti Jatra
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
741
Posted : Sep 21, 2006 18:46
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On 2006-08-31 18:42, dirty 1 wrote:
i have heard from a fair few labels that sales are going down and they are finding it hard to keep going cos many people in this scene are cheap skate poncers!(ie want stuff for free)
they love all the hippy shit about unity and coming together and yet shaft the artists and people who try to bring them their vibrational fodder.
for those who are still downloading, as this is going to continue to happen,why not try to give back a little and therefore try something different.
get friends together in little groups and each buy a cd ,lets say 5 people each buying one cd,then share each one.that would mean 5 more brought.lets say 200 groups of friends do this and wow.....lots more sold.
obvioulsy some of you guys are doing this,great stuff,your top.lets pass on this very basic stratergy and see if we can help rekindle this diminishing scene.
wouldnt you all agree.
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ok henceforth we will buy
respect
Shanti Jatra Fullmoon Festival, Nepal - October 2009
www.shantijatra.com |
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Hex Osirus
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
497
Posted : Sep 21, 2006 23:40
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Maybe the labels should experiment
intead of going down by abolishing cds and only through online downloads why not go up providing more content.
Maybe start using those new double sided discs with one side for dvd audio which can have the album in higher resolution/surround mixed version maybe?? and maybe some pics/video artwork or any other for of psy media??
and the other side can be standard audio cd format.
Maybe then people will be more inclined to buy cds again?
just an idea. offcourse i have no idea what the numbers behind all this would be. but it would be cool though
http://soundcloud.com/seer |
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 00:41
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-21 23:40, Hex Osirus wrote:
Maybe the labels should experiment
intead of going down by abolishing cds and only through online downloads why not go up providing more content.
Maybe start using those new double sided discs with one side for dvd audio which can have the album in higher resolution/surround mixed version maybe?? and maybe some pics/video artwork or any other for of psy media??
and the other side can be standard audio cd format.
Maybe then people will be more inclined to buy cds again?
just an idea. offcourse i have no idea what the numbers behind all this would be. but it would be cool though
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and who exactly should pay for that? the many (non existant) buyers? 
It wil be at least the double price in manufacturing costs and believe me the price per CD wont go down this way. It wil go up and then we all know what wil happen. lot's of protests.
No the future is to cut off the middle man called distributors who are the reason why CD's are so expensive these days and a future with much more affordable digital releases.
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
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Hex Osirus
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
497
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 09:46
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^^
wasnt expecting the price to go down this way obviously but tell me would u rather have a crappy 192kpbs mp3 album with a jpg cover or a whole album in surround(not to mention the falling prices of surround systems and normal audio format filled with making the album videos or maybe some clips from a few good live or dj sets+ artwork
i would definately like to see this as the future.
Who says all releases should be like this, Labels should just try it out with a few of their more established artists
http://soundcloud.com/seer |
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 10:59
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-22 09:46, Hex Osirus wrote:
but tell me would u rather have a crappy 192kpbs mp3 album with a jpg cover or a whole album in surround |
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All download shops I know offer wav or 320 kbps so I am not really sure what you mean with 192? I also got no clue why you bring in "surround"?
The fact is that most if not all labels in the psytrance scene will never be able to afford to release 2 sided discs (and the music will become better because of that) or DVD releases for the very simple reason that very few would buy those releases and it would be a echonomical backfire.
First people - as a buying argument - asked for booklets in the CD's. Then labels started to do that (Tribal Vision, Chill Tribe ect.) and on top of that also release quality music. Did the sales go up? no! Chill Tribe even lost money from the first releases even though the first releaase got very good reviews and reactions. Nobody seemed to really care that there was a very nice booklet inside the CD
Tribal Vision do not sell more than 1000-1500 copies per CD. Not really enough to make them release 2 sided CD's or DVD's etc
Its Utopia to think any label can afford it or that more people will buy a release just because it's 2 sided etc. The booklet story prove that it's not extra things and extra costs from the labels side that makes people buy a release. It's other factors such as:
1. lower prices on music
2. better quality and less quantity
my 2 cents
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
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PKS
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
490
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 14:01
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Hi friends!
Interesting discussion and nice to see Chill Tribe mentioned as an example here... TrippyJohnny is right here... So, here is the story of how glamorous it is to run a label:
The first compilation on Chill Tribe (Quality Relaxation) had a fat booklet with pictures and info about all the artists. This I did, to give those who bought the compilation something extra... I think they deserve that! I know that from personal experiences with CD buying, that it's more fun to buy a CD when there is a booklet inside...
Anyway, this didn't help the CD sales... The compilation has sold in total about 800 copies worldwide!!! Now, take a look at the reviews and feedback on the compilation... Then take a look at the artist names on the compilation... Almost 100% positive feedback in reviews, and most of the artists on the compilation should be well known in this scene...
So, easy mathematics should tell you that with these artists, there was A LOT of expenses... The booklet thing is also more expensive+the cover artwork. There are also expenses for the publishing companies (about EUR 1125,-), shipping costs, mastering, pressing, phone bills, promotion +++, not to mention the extreme amont of time I used to come up with this...
So, with 800 copies sold, I'm not even near of covering HALF of the expenses of this compilation. Considering the big expenses I had here, we are talking about A LOT of money lost...
My conclusion is that even if you give the buyers something extra (like a fat booklet), give them good and known artists and quality music, this is still NOT enough to run a small label anymore. The CD sales is for sure become rediculously low, so it seems like it's almost no point in releasing this format anymore... (unless you promote it on MTV, which is "owned" by the biggest companies out there) Still, I do it for the passion of it. To release something with quality of the music I love so much. The dark/big downside is offcourse that it really hurts in my wallet. If I hadn't saved money for years from my daily (low paied) job, I would have been totally bankrupt allready after the first release... Anyway, a couple of more releases are on the schedule, so we will see how it goes... I can't afford to continue loosing that much money in the long run, so I just cross my fingers that Relaxed Journeys (being released next week) will at least cover more than half of the expenses...After all, there are other things in life I would need to spend money on too...... (But to run it now, I almost stopped travelling, stopped drinking beer, almost never go out, no cafes, no new equipment/computer stuff, cheap food etc, etc++. With other words, NO LIFE:) Wish me good luck!
All the best!
PKS
CHILL TRIBE
CTRCD01 QUALITY RELAXATION
CTRCD02 RELAXED JOURNEYS
CTRCD03 EAR PLEASURE
CTRCD04 WOMBATMUSIC - Shameful Silence
CTRCD05 POLYPLOID - Grow Your Own
CTRCD06 IAN ION - Gringo Locomotion
CTRCD07 SUNKINGS - Before We Die |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Sep 23, 2006 06:58
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This is especially critical of you towards people that are trying to produce their own music FOR the future of psytrance, that NEED the influence and inspiration. The future of psytrance should be much more important to these labels than making their money, and if it isn't, I honestly don't feel like supporting them.
-qane |
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other_reality
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
Posts :
365
Posted : Sep 24, 2006 21:57
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Online sales is the only way for psy-trance to survive. Possibly, DVD compilations with mp3's and videos provided from the label, could attract more customers, if priced in a smart way. At this time, when sales are going down and down, I see the free-online music sites gaining more and more power. I think that sales will never come back to where they were, ever again, without some serious work and strategic planning. And a good start is to stop releasing crap music. Less is more in this way, it is better to dedicate on true talents who devote themselves into music, and make a release that is worth buying and listening to again and again, rather than releasing a whole bunch of music which all sounds the same, and as boring as it gets. This way, those who buy music won't have to be inside a barn looking for that needle, but will now what they want in the first place. It is better to invest on a top-production level with serious artists, and make less releases and compilations.
Bring yourselves into the light
www.youtube.com/otherreality |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Sep 25, 2006 21:17
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why dont you break down the costs of a cd from the retail level until the artist and see where all this "greed" might be coming from...
imagine each artist on a compilation is paid 200 (they are usually paid more- say 500 but im trying to make a point)
thats 1000 for 10 tracks... then there is lets say 500 for art + mastering because you got a FANTASTIC deal on art and mastering...
then you, say, press 1000 copies at unit cost of 2.50 for a digipak or something...
just WHERE are all these HUGE profits when you sell them to the distributor for 6 a pop who then sells them to the stores for 10 a pop who then sells them to consumers for the standard retail markup of 100%...
yeah sure. tons of profits (NOT!)
thats why there are TONS of trance shops in the world and none of them EVER have trouble paying their bills...
well fine- trance shops close, labels close, those dirty middlemen are gone! now we can party! except that unless each and every artist starts selling their own music directly, there will be a NEW middleman and it probably will be someone big like itunes or Amazon- not a pretty scenario...
oh wait- you are the hippie idealist who thinks only artists should work for free...
i expect you should keep getting paid for YOUR job- what do you do again?
anyway- what you describe has been happening and what we have are frustrated artists, conservative labels, and a shitload of mediocre music....
I DISAGREE WITH YOUR ANALYSIS THAT THE QUALITY WOULD IMPROVE!!!
instead you would see more rich kids starting vanity labels and people who are poor and barely making it would exit. me for one.
i would say "forget you you selfish bastard" and keep my trance to myself- why should i make music for your petty pleasure? why should i even share it with you?
give me one good reason to do that?
still think you can just steal if from me and thats ok? not if i dont have any intention of releasing it... i wont even let you HEAR it!
i try to understand this line of thinking and the only thing i can think of is that people who work normal jobs and think artists should just always give away everything and not eat are just clueless and selfish...
really- i get tired of this thread and the people who continually write things about how the music industry should get their shit together more...
yes yes the world needs to be less commercial but id say start with FOOD not music.
actually what the author of the post said was "hey people- support the scene you love and BUY the music you love"
NOT "hey people think of more justifications for why downloading is cooler than buying..."
as for the general trends in the music industry sales are finally back up a bit...
even the fat cats were losing money for a while...
but most people in small underground scenes realize the power they have in supporting the scene...
just like someone has to help pay for the party- someone has to help pay for the release- if you can please do so-
only what you believe in supporting of course- i wont ask you to buy ocelot cds if you are not a fan...
if you cannot then copy from a friend but try to remember that 1000 copies of XYZ cd need to be sold to pay for it and to feed (literally in my case) the artists...
you have the power to positively or negatively affect that...
anyway in most poor places in the world people get their music by download... thats just a fact- im not hoping it dies but when i hear someone from a privileged place ripping on cd sales and saying "share music for free" i have to wonder whose ass his head has been up...
Quote:
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On 2006-08-31 18:47, psytones wrote:
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/79569/forum/1
Why is it that a CD has had the same price since the 90's? Maybe if the people wanting to make money on CD sales could change some of the standard prices ect, the buyers would be easier tempted to purchase the released albums that they like. And there is a lot of people out there, including me that loves original albums. So what about better booklets?
The problem isn't the buyers, it's the market that is the issue here.
And what if people are downloading? It would be a great step back if the "psy-trance/music marked in general" scene would fall down. That would then mean less releases, and better quality of releases over all. Because if there is NO money in releasing a album (not that people in this scene is making money, but...), 80% of the music would poff, disappear. Then only the people with "real" ? interest in the MUSIC it self, would produce mental psychedelic trance for the body and soul.
Let's get back to trading music for free! Pass the word !!
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dirty 1
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
141
Posted : Sep 25, 2006 22:30
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fair point ocelot.
and again people are blaming the labels for over priced sales when most i know are doing it for a hobby,ie/a non profit org.nowadaze...
a scenario;3 psy-trancers in a bar..
"anyone for a beer,oh no,thats Euro2.75 a pint and i'll piss it out in ten minutes.fuck it,i'll buy a round.10pounds later...more piss."
a cd cost-Euro8.75
come on guys,dont be tight..support your music scene,together we can do it! |
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