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bioacoustics
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Pavel
Troll
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 17:18:32
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Now discuss it in the proper place
  Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Xamanist
Xamanist
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Posted : Mar 23, 2011 18:29
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There's nothing to discuss about "Now discuss it in the proper place" 
Sérgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist |
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dreadieg
IsraTrance Junior Member
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478
Posted : Mar 23, 2011 21:02
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wrong subforum, electrical discussions have nothing to do with spirituality.
why you no post in trance topic?
(insert some random lulz pic) |
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Pavel
Troll
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Posted : Mar 25, 2011 01:35
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Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 25, 2011 12:19
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 27, 2011 16:51
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questions i have regarding bioacoustics?
which species has the best hearing (the widest range of audible frequecies)? why?
why humans listen to some range only?
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 28, 2011 01:10
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well this is a very good question. too good to be answered in a few words.
the most popular animals with the widest range ( mathematically seen) would be:
dolphins, the porpoise ( meerswine, related to whales and dolphins), the white whale, the bat and the mouse according to this table.
http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/HearingRange.html
why? very difficult to even put a hypothesis on that.
possible thesis:
- they are for the longest time on the planet and have the most sophisticated evolution
- they have different natural habitats and environments than most other animals in the table given above. if your species lives millions of years in the ocean, or in a cave, it is possible that the resonance gets more and more precise and the ear becomes more and more aware from generation to generation. just like every species gets used to the environment where it came for the first time and gets to know the environment better. survival of the fittest, and survival of those who adapt best. so species adapt. adaptation in a natural environment means to hear more and more of it. what can i hear in a cave for million of years? the reflection of a reflection. more and more overtones.
- they have different bioacoustics ( for example wikipedia says that some animals in the see hear the sound through the throat and not through the ear. and snakes perceive infrasound through their bellies.
another possible suggestion is that sound is actually perceived in a more spiritual way not through the ear. but through morphogenetic fields.
everything depends on the form.
there is simply too much to say on the issue. and it is not that spiritual somehow. although it is a good question, why humans hear that little. and nevertheless there is no other species that can make that much out of sound as humans ?
i think humans hear only that range because they have....the task to learn to hear right first. they hear exactly as much as needed for their species. if we could resonate with the creation , in our range, we would then probably mutate into a new species and more frequency ranges would open to us after that. which, some say , will happen after 2012. or whenever the shift is - the shift that leads to a mutation of a species.
but it is too much to even discuss. |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 28, 2011 10:26
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Quote:
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On 2011-06-28 01:10, moki wrote:
well this is a very good question. too good to be answered in a few words.
the most popular animals with the widest range ( mathematically seen) would be:
dolphins, the porpoise ( meerswine, related to whales and dolphins), the white whale, the bat and the mouse according to this table.
http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/HearingRange.html
why? very difficult to even put a hypothesis on that.
possible thesis:
- they are for the longest time on the planet and have the most sophisticated evolution
- they have different natural habitats and environments than most other animals in the table given above. if your species lives millions of years in the ocean, or in a cave, it is possible that the resonance gets more and more precise and the ear becomes more and more aware from generation to generation. just like every species gets used to the environment where it came for the first time and gets to know the environment better. survival of the fittest, and survival of those who adapt best. so species adapt. adaptation in a natural environment means to hear more and more of it. what can i hear in a cave for million of years? the reflection of a reflection. more and more overtones.
- they have different bioacoustics ( for example wikipedia says that some animals in the see hear the sound through the throat and not through the ear. and snakes perceive infrasound through their bellies.
another possible suggestion is that sound is actually perceived in a more spiritual way not through the ear. but through morphogenetic fields.
everything depends on the form.
there is simply too much to say on the issue. and it is not that spiritual somehow. although it is a good question, why humans hear that little. and nevertheless there is no other species that can make that much out of sound as humans ?
i think humans hear only that range because they have....the task to learn to hear right first. they hear exactly as much as needed for their species. if we could resonate with the creation , in our range, we would then probably mutate into a new species and more frequency ranges would open to us after that. which, some say , will happen after 2012. or whenever the shift is - the shift that leads to a mutation of a species.
but it is too much to even discuss.
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First and third reason are rubbish. And by rubbish, I mean idiotic. And by idiotic, I mean totally inconsistant with how evolution works.
The things which are on this planet the longest are not the most evolved PERIOD. An alligator is not more evolved than a monkey. They have a different scale of evolutionary needs. Hence, the single celled organism still exists, despite the millions of years of evolution going into making us multi-celled beings. Evolution does not "drop" what is "outdated". It strengthens what helps survival.
Mice need good hearing because they are prey of basically every predator, and without that edge, they die. A Dolphin or Porpoise uses their hearing to judge the intents of incoming sharks and to coordinate a defense with others in the area. The shark is their only predator, and perhaps the most evolved being at killing, with an even more amazing set of senses (can smell one part per million of blood in water, can "see" the electrical activity in the neurological systems of animals, etc). As for the bat, it's a simple matter of flying through caves. They live on a "sonar" sense, which is based on hearing, since sight does not work that well in caves. At night.
Humans hear in this range because we have no evolutionary drive to improve it. Our ears are incapable of going beyond the 20Hz-20KHz range. This is a physiological fact. No matter how we "learn" or whatever, before men and women don't stop fucking because of bad hearing, or we start needing super sensitive hearing in order to survive, this will not change. This is not a spiritual evolution. This is basic physical evolution.
This is how mutations are selected to survive. Early onset Alzheimer's is a genetic mutation which is growing rarer and rarer as the average age rises, and is generally a mutation which will die out. On the other hand, people have grown significantly taller in the past few thousands of years, so this mutation appears to be helping people not only survive, but get laid.
Explain to me how spiritual mumbo-jumbo has anything to do with this. I've got my popcorn.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 28, 2011 11:50
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well, you first sentence does not really motivate a deep argumentation, but never mind.  i 'll try it short. if you define evolution from an anthropocentric view, then the " evolutionary sophistication of nature" will be only a product of your subjective "barely human" criteria. what is a sophisticated evolution for us humans? of course, mostly the evolution of what we need most- brain, hands, feet, teeth, reproduction, eyes, eardrum, inner ear and auditory nerves, among unders. but hey, we are not the center of the creation, may be species that are less developed in our terms of science, are as a matter of fact better designed for this planet, what do you think about this possibility?
buit i know it is difficult to leave the anthropocentric view - we are used to see everything only in our narrow specter of thought and perception. after all, let us not forget, that we humans are some of the youngest results of evolution and are claimed by science to be the most sophisticated of all, no  ?
but the issue discussed here is the evolution of bioacoustics and not physiology or nervous system. to me a species that hears 150000hz instead of 25000hz is much more acoustically sophisticated. an insect that hears up to 240000hz , like moctuid moth, looks more sophisticated in terms of bioacoustics to me too. and your aligator is not that good example either, because he hears pretty well he infrasound. he produces sound by produsing sacs in their chins. what is the advantage: of course, reptiles for example can predict natural disasters much better. they hear more, understand their environment better. do we?
so to come to the latest. you think, we humans dont have evolutionary need to hear more. i state we have. first to survive. then to communicate. and obviously not all acoustically sophisticated animals "hear" through the ear. probably we dont either. most people who are involved with spiritual practises in one way or another will reassure you that in certain states of mind we hear things outside of what is actually supposed to be heard be science.
but anyway, so we agree on the second thesis?
so animals that live in the dark have better abilities to hear? it is that simple? of course. but is it true that the oldest species lived in the dark?
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 28, 2011 16:36
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I don't believe in anthropocentrism as in humans are the most significant. We are just the top of the food chain. Evolutionary sophistication is created when survival depends on it. My point is that evolution is not in any way tied town to spirituality. We have a narrow level of perception compared to capabilities of species in which those are critical to survival. We instead survive by a combination of opposable thumbs and the capability of abstract thought. Hence, it is natural for the other things to evolve less, or even for some to deteriorate (as the sense of smell, for instance). Modern society does not exist long enough for dramatic effects, but my guess is that genes with bigger boobs will have more success  .
Due to this, evolution of bioacoustics is a dead end for humanity. The ability to survive and/or to reproduce does not depend on it nearly as much as on other factors. Hearing a wider frequency range will not in any way aid my survival. Nor will it help me get women pregnant. As a matter of fact, I have a very hard time imagining who it will help. Hence, the evolution has no driving force in this specific parameter. As for the people "involved with spiritual practices", people who hear things that are not supposed to be heard is called "a hallucination", which can be induced by chemicals. Some of which released in the brain.
As you may notice, I do not give any grades or ranks as to "quality" of evolution. There is no such thing. Evolution is a natural process, just like weather. The only measure of evolutionary success is survival. Humans don't hear a certain range because they need to do something. They hear a certain range because their are physical limits on the capabilities of the ear. Evolution doesn't just "happen". It takes a long time, measured in thousands of years. Our evolution will come through hacking our own DNA, nano-technology, computer/brain interfacing and other such means. Not through mystical connections to the universe.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 29, 2011 13:23
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| Hearing a wider frequency range will not in any way aid my survival. Nor will it help me get women pregnant. |
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may be it would help you to get the RIGHT woman pregnant, which is basicly the meaning of evolution. the result of this interraction with the woman, the baby to be born, should always be more evolved than you and the woman were. the role of sound within the unit of the family in the animal world can be best seen with dolphins. just look at the way they hear each other, the sound they give to each other. they are a good prove that "hearing" is more valuable than "understanding of cognitive units". a dolphin always hears what happens to his family members and goes immediately to save them and help them survive. the same phenomenon with humans, would be probably named telepathy, sixth sense, and would work only with a small percentage of our species. some call it empathy. but empathy doesnt work that well with long distances.
also, tell me, what did the evolution give to men to attract women who are to be made pregnant. men are more and more losing their main asset, the ability to protect a female in the brutality of the forest. this is not such an attractive asset anymore, because women are more and more able to take care for themselves totally on their own, which was not the case even 50 years ago. men are losing basic evolutionary assets. they most probably need to develop new ones, if they want to spread their genes. also intelligence as main asset is proving more and more to give unsustainable solutions, females are starting to realise that intelligence of their male counterparts would not be enough to help the family unit survive. or maybe your intelligence can save your woman and your child from a natural disaster, from global warming, from polution of the sea and the land?
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totally agree. of course this is connected to difficulties and risks, but hey, anything in evolution was a coin with two sides. take even the fire - it could have burned the whole tribe if used wrong. but we survived. and we will survive hacking our own dna too, hopefully. but this IS the very essence of our bioacoustic evolution too.
what is spiritual about it? well, if it is not done under ethical aspects - what will be the result. we hack our dna and turn to a brain computer interface? what about the barely human charakteristics like falling in love, jumping into the fire just to save a friend or your child, enjoying the sense of a flower and the rise of the sun? what about basic human ethics? if we evolve simply by hacking our dna without taking all these things into consideration, the last thing to happen will be that we survive as species.
p.s. another important issue is that evolution means the survival of a species. not of your own genes. many philosophers and genius scientists had no children but helped their species survive as a whole. it is not all about making a woman pregnant |
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