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Best sound systems in Tokyo?
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russ
IsraTrance Junior Member
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275
Posted : Mar 11, 2005 14:42
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I want to know what places you think have the best sound systems in Tokyo. I'm not talking the LOUDEST sound--I'm talking high-quality sound where you can actually hear the music.
I'm interested in anything from large clubs to small bars.
Cube 326 has two Funktion-One Dance Stacks, so I'm sure the sound is better there than anywhere else. (Even though the club usually runs it way too loud for my taste.)
And please no one say Ageha! Ageha has the WORST sound system per dollar investment of probably any club in the world. It's a disgrace and an embarrassment. A "superclub" with unlimited amounts of cash decides to custom-build a ridiculous system that is designed simply to blow out your ear drums. The speakers there are unlistenable and undanceable.
Cheers! |
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HIKARI
IsraTrance Junior Member
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611
Posted : Mar 12, 2005 02:52
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oh...
sorry, i was about to say Ageha...
Cube 326 had the best sound system a year ago, when the club was being run by SLINKY. then they took the whole system out and put in the funktions, but they only use 30 to 40% of its power(since they cant use the lows, they tweek up the mids and highs, making it noisy).
I like personally like Cittas Towered Speakers. |
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sickboy
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Posted : Mar 12, 2005 02:59
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Have you been to Unit Russ?? Admittedly, I haven't been there for a trance event yet (hoping to catch the Quintrix Records thing there next week), but have been for Drum and Bass a few times, and the system sounds nice to me. The main room is clear and pure, and just as loud as it needs to be. The downstairs lounge sound is shite though (dj and sound system is tucked into a concrete hallway, seemingly as an afterthought).
Agree with both your assessments of Cube and Ageha. Interested to hear others take on this question, especially anyone with technical knowledge/background. Womb also sounds great if you're in the 'sweet spot'. |
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russ
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 12, 2005 10:00
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thanks hikari--i was wondering why the Cube system didn't sound right. those speakers are amazing, but the mids are so loud that i feel they are crushing my eardrums. but i still don't quite understand why they can't use the system normally. why they can't power the lows fully?
funktion-ones are beautifully balanced and flat, so you shouldn't boost the highs and mids at all. even slight boosting will create massive distortion. and what hurts your ears is distortion much more than volume.
sickboy--actually i was planning on checking out a tech-house party at Unit tonight to see the system. i also like the womb system. it's not amazing, but it's very good for tokyo club standards.
also, i don't mean to sound rude by saying this, but if anyone out there likes the ageha system, there is a very good chance that you have significant hearing loss. those speakers are set close to pain threshold for people with normal hearing, so if you don't feel any discomfort when listening to them, you might want to take steps to protect your ears! i know many dj's who are semi-deaf now, and it's a very serious condition that is irreversible. a quick hearing test at a hospital can give you a good idea how your ears are holding up to all those nights at clubs. |
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sickboy
Started Topics :
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67
Posted : Mar 12, 2005 10:24
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Russ, I think you're absolutely right.. been thinking of ear protection for a while now, but too lazy and/or vain to do anything about it. Any suggestions for nice plugs?? Might run into you at Unit tonight, as it's one possibility I'm considering for this first Saturday of Spring(?) Can't wait for the outdoor season, and hope to take in your Labryinth event among others,
cheers |
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HujaBoy
HujaBoy
Started Topics :
27
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492
Posted : Mar 12, 2005 13:43
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From what i heared so far club citta was the best.
Not only for the sound system but also the structure had great acoustic design!
Wish all the clubs in the world woud have sounded like this one. |
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russ
IsraTrance Junior Member
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35
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275
Posted : Mar 14, 2005 18:09
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i went to Unit on Saturday and the sound was good. it's a JBL line array (the same they use in Citta) and although I don't like line arrays at all for dance music, this one is pretty good because it's not very big. there's only 4 cabinets hanging instead of 8, and since they are so low and close to the bass you don't get a sense of separation between the highs and the lows. also the organizer brought his own sound engineer with a $6,000 Manley Passive EQ to run the sound through, so I'm sure the sound was much better that night than usual!
[technical aside: if anyone's interested, a line array is a line of speakers that are designed to function as a single speaker when put in a straight array, or line. you can find them at club citta, the solstice outdoor parties, samothraki etc.
they have a huge disadvantage in that they only work well in spaces that are of the right uniform shape. you can't tailor them for the room or move them around. for Unit to buy a line array for a strangely-shaped room is a totally bizzarre decsion if you ask me, and that's why you see a few conventional speakers tucked into corners in the room--they cover places the array misses--which is very stupid because then you have two conflicting sound systems based on entirely different principles competing for the listener's attention.
the biggest advantage they possess is that they "throw" very far without much loss in sound. this is great for a huge rock concert outside, and engineers like them because they can cover a crowd easily without setting up delay stacks etc, but for a small club like unit to choose an array is very strange--i doubt they have any what line arrays do and just bought them because they are trendy. i personally don't like them at all for dance because they are so loud at a distance that you can't escape the sound even at the very back. (actually they can be much louder at the back than the front because you are getting hit by every cabinet!) also they tend to sound very agressive, with super-strong punchy mids (they sound much better for guitar/vocal driven rock than dance); most importantly, they are very inefficient compared to horn-loaded speakers, so you are getting a LARGE amount of distortion for the same decibel levels. Citta, with its line array, is a very harsh and uncomfortable system for me to listen to, but at least it's regular shape suits a line array.]
as far i'm concerned, for dance music you either use turbosounds or funktion-ones, as nothing matches these for bass.
sickboy, the best way to protect your ears is to invest in a pair of musician's earplugs. etymotic research makes them: http://www.etymotic.com/
basically you get a mold taken of your ear, and then you send that mold to them so they can make earplugs for you. musician's earplugs are different from standard earplugs in that they cut the frequencies levels equally, so the balance of lows/mids/highs sounds the same, just less loud. the ER 15's and ER 25's cut the sound evenly by 15 or 25 decibels, while the ER9's cut the highs by about 15db's and the mids by about 9 db's without really effecting the lows. they also make a cheaper pair called the ER20's that you can buy direct without making a mold of your ear. these cut sound more or less evenly by about 20 db. |
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sickboy
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67
Posted : Mar 15, 2005 11:20
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Thanks for the etymotic info Russ.
It really is strange, with the amount of money that was obviously poured into clubs like Ageha and Unit, you would think they would make sure they were doing things not just 'alright', but perfectly soundwise. Strange... |
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sickboy
Started Topics :
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67
Posted : Mar 15, 2005 15:09
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russ
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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275
Posted : Mar 15, 2005 16:42
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actually to me that only explains why they can't drive the bass fully. just because you can't turn the bass on fully does not mean you have to turn the mids and highs up. in fact it means just the opposite! now the system has fucked highs/mids/and lows, instead of just less bass. the dance floor there is so small that you don't need to power the bass fully anyway. it's such a fucking shame that I get angry just writing about it! what they're doing is taking something pure and killing it.
BTW, you can learn more about sound by reading all of the tony andrews interviews/articles on the funktion-one site than anywhere else.
There are three reasons why clubs make ridiculous mistakes with their sound systems:
1) Lack of sensitivity towards sound and towards music.
2) Lack of understanding toward the potential emotional impact music can have on people.
3) Reasons number 1 and 2 set them up to become vulnerable fashion victims to the latest trends (i.e., line arrays).
To the vast majority of club owners and event organizers, sound is a commodity that they are trading for money. In other words, they simply don't take sound seriously enough.
P.S. Because of Tony Andrew's recommendation, I am investing in a new $2,500 dj mixer Funktion-One made with a British mixing company called Formula Sound for this year's labyrinth. This will allow the crowd (and me!) to enjoy the Funktion-One system to its fullest. To pay for this we will bring one less dj, which is a small sacrifice. This is what it means to take sound seriously! |
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sickboy
Started Topics :
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67
Posted : Mar 15, 2005 18:14
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Thanks for all this Russ and Hikari...glad to see some people do take sound seriously...
Hope to catch Labyrinth this year Russ...how are things looking for dates and artists? Will SBK be back?? Haven't been able to get "Retro" from the Avalanche Comp out of my head for about a week! Anyhow, topic for another thread.
Cheers
Jeff |
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Ken
IsraTrance Full Member
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63
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441
Posted : Mar 16, 2005 07:22
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Hi Russ,
Seems like you're the man! I hope you can help me out.
I bought custom made speakers a few years ago...
2 x cabinets.
1 cabinet = 2 x 15inch 3way cones? + 15inch horn.
1200Watts each.
Hope I'm making sense because I lost the specs.
Anyways, been using this system for our free "guerilla" parties around parks in Tokyo. It seems OK except I'd like more bottom end. I'm thinking of getting some Subs. My m8s got a compressor and a crossover / divider I hope I can use to split the frequencies.
I hope to use this system for our 2nd stage (Progressive or chill) at our parties also. We are a small underground organizer so we dont have much money (unless sickboy and others in the crew want to put in some money with me - wink wink) But I hope to make our sound better . Any recommendations on the Subwoofer front?
 The music was like new black polished chrome
that came over the sky like liquid night.
psy16.com |
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russ
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
275
Posted : Mar 16, 2005 11:37
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BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
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749
Posted : Mar 16, 2005 17:34
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can't comment on the latest Tokyo sound systems.. but . one thing that impressed me when i did go to underground trance parties in Japan (late 90's) was the sound level was -usually- tastefully moderate and you could hear the music...
nothing upsets/ruins my vibe more than a club system set at bona fide HEARING DAMAGE causing levels..
do take care of your hearing...! I have hi-fi plugs that lower by 20db, and still sound good.
i have DJ friends who have gone semi-deaf... and they lose all ability to judge/set sound levels properly... and make the experience uncomfortable for people with with "virgin ears" ..like mine. |
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Ken
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
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Posted : Mar 17, 2005 10:19
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Thanx Russ!
Both Subs look great and I'm sure sound great too.
They are at the very top end of my price range so I'll have to think about whether to get them now or later.
But they are exactly what I'm looking for. These are passive subs right so I'll have to rent another generator to power them.
The music was like new black polished chrome
that came over the sky like liquid night.
psy16.com |
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