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Trance Forum » » Forum  Ambient & Chill Out - Artists & Labels: I'm Saying Goodbye to Buying CDs!
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Artists & Labels: I'm Saying Goodbye to Buying CDs!

BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  61
Posts :  749
Posted : Apr 23, 2007 06:57
Maer,

Cheers for the low cost downloads! An awesome move.

.M4A is said to be lossless (a.k.a "apple lossless").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lossless

I haven't experimented much with this format or done any quality checks yet. I personally dislike the iTunes software, and I'm waiting for Songbird (Firefox-based, unshackled, non-proprietary music browser) to get fully developed.

I'm a stickler for quality. Maybe the difference is small... but to me it is very important. I'm like like the people who buy only organic food, or only drink fine champagne. Maybe some folks can't tell the difference in a blind taste test, but the quality and intention is still there. It's important to me that audio standards rise (think HDTV or plasma screens) rather than fall or revert into 128kb DRM mediocrity.

I have always trusted chill labels as most advanced collectives on the planet - to release immaculately produced, cutting edge music. I hold the same vision for distribution... I see a glorious abundance of affordable digital music, open standards for devices and encoding, and greatly diminished incentives to pirate and copy! I see artists getting much bigger cuts, labels getting more sales (vs. copies), consumers getting a much better price and convenience - a win-win situation for everyone.
Quasga
Inactive User

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  498
Posted : Apr 23, 2007 11:51
My question is: How are digital downloads going to make copying any less abundant?

I'm going to use my last album as an example because it is not for sale in digital format anywhere in the world (or at least not legally - although I've found a site selling mp3s illegally) There are mp3 "copies" all over the net, but the first digital file copies obviously came about by someone originally ripping the CD release and turning them into "internet sharable" files - (or someone who made a CD-R copy of the real CD from a friend, first, then ripped, haha!). Easily done, right? So, if someone who is into "sharing" buy an album already in a digital, distributable format, isn't it going to just be a few less steps for them to have go through to get their new music to friends and fellow "traders"? Sounds like digital downloads just make things even easier for the people who currently like to rip and distribute music freely on the web.

I don't think "diminished incentives to pirate and copy" are a valid by-product of this digital download "I need my music as quickly as a McDon'talds crapburger " revolution mentality. If anything, copying is going to get much more commonplace.

Just something to ponder while you're sipping your fine bubbly, you aristocrat, you.





Trip-
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  3239
Posted : Apr 23, 2007 12:16
To add to Quasga's (what i already said earlier):
you won't be able to tell from an original and a pirated copy.           Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA
Quasga
Inactive User

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  498
Posted : Apr 23, 2007 20:51
Sorry Philip, I missed that one... just my personal emphasis that copying is going to become easier and more likely instead of the opposite, when everything is being released in a digital file format from the start. No sense in people living in denial.

Quote:

On 2007-04-23 12:25, Wombatmusic wrote:
It's really a complex debate and maybe the debate should really be about a small word called "respect" for other people's work and property which I think is lacking in some people's Dictionary.



Wombatmusic, I couln't agree more... but I think people gaining "respect" for the importance of paying for their music, no matter what format, is as likely as CD sales increasing this year. Yes, it may seem that my glass is half empty, but that is only becuase the first half was illegally downloaded.

I know the revolution is inevitable... I've actually been taking my own steps at getting all my music for sale as digital downloads....hopefully in place by fall. I'm not trying to fight it in anyway, just trying to hinder what I feel is a sensationalization.... people thinking that affordable digital downloads are going to drastically reduce rampant copying.

andrew interchill
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  435
Posted : Apr 23, 2007 21:05
Quasga - when we started making really good $ from digital then the illegal copying became less of an issue...

one you can control and drive... the other you can do nothing about

copiers are going to do it anyway - and if you're looking for culprits then the import facility on itunes is a good one - makes ripping a cd very easy
xuam
Inactive User

Started Topics :  2
Posts :  53
Posted : Apr 23, 2007 23:09
I may sound naif...but I honestly admit it...
I do copy music (mainly old stuff)...and I love it.
and I copy software too, and I would like to see more ppl admitting it
(I don't even start to talk about the so many imitators copying ideas, expecially in music).
I try to buy what i can afford...both music and software, the ones I listen and use more often...but...organic food is expensive and more necessary and I haven't found a way to copy that yet.

anyway music was copied also before the digital age...remember the tapes? (same as mp3 now probably).
the same companies that are selling now blanck cds were selling tapes....piracy always been there and media industries love it (expecially apple who sells milions of empty ipods)...now it's just more evident,
let's face it...there is too much music around this days...and most of it sounds the same...same same...over and over again.
instead of winging about the digital copies, think that back in the days there were much less music label, less artists, less releases. Probably if we check the total figures we will find out that the numbers of sales are increased...but now are spread between millions of authors.
only few ones do big numbers....and the only ones making good profits are the usual ones...the big media corporate, and the usual boring rockstars that are their puppets.

it's somehow challenging, but to survive you need to be very VERY original, gain respect and not just another copy.

there are ups and downs, as always in this ying yang reality,
I am not personally worried about the copies, also because it's all promotion at the end of the day.

what we will see happening is the failure of the industrial model, creativity is not equal to profit, and I may sound an oldfashion utopistic, but I still think that music should be free, for free and not related to a market.

we all have aristocratic appetites but someone can afford bubbly wines and someone can afford only camel piss....the digital age makes all equal at least regarding music appetites.

pop will eat itself
Quasga
Inactive User

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  498
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 00:16
Quote:

On 2007-04-23 23:09, xuam wrote:
I may sound naif...but I honestly admit it...
I do copy music (mainly old stuff)...and I love it.
and I copy software too, and I would like to see more ppl admitting it
(I don't even start to talk about the so many imitators copying ideas, expecially in music).
I try to buy what i can afford...both music and software, the ones I listen and use more often...but...organic food is expensive and more necessary and I haven't found a way to copy that yet.

anyway music was copied also before the digital age...remember the tapes? (same as mp3 now probably).
the same companies that are selling now blanck cds were selling tapes....piracy always been there and media industries love it (expecially apple who sells milions of empty ipods)...now it's just more evident,
let's face it...there is too much music around this days...and most of it sounds the same...same same...over and over again.
instead of winging about the digital copies, think that back in the days there were much less music label, less artists, less releases. Probably if we check the total figures we will find out that the numbers of sales are increased...but now are spread between millions of authors.
only few ones do big numbers....and the only ones making good profits are the usual ones...the big media corporate, and the usual boring rockstars that are their puppets.

it's somehow challenging, but to survive you need to be very VERY original, gain respect and not just another copy.

there are ups and downs, as always in this ying yang reality,
I am not personally worried about the copies, also because it's all promotion at the end of the day.

what we will see happening is the failure of the industrial model, creativity is not equal to profit, and I may sound an oldfashion utopistic, but I still think that music should be free, for free and not related to a market.

we all have aristocratic appetites but someone can afford bubbly wines and someone can afford only camel piss....the digital age makes all equal at least regarding music appetites.

pop will eat itself



Maux,

I simply adore your indirect tactics....

but check it... I'm not "whining" about anything.... I simply don't want people trying to sell me an idea that digital distribution is going to decrease copying. I'm fine with it... let's just keep the "sensastionalization" in check. It's not for better or worse, it's just a new system to get accustomed to, that's all.

If you're implying my music is un-original then you should just come out and say it instead of tip-toeing around it.

Also, congrats, I noticed that when you're not flustered I can understand what you're writing.








Quasga
Inactive User

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  498
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 00:21
Quote:

On 2007-04-23 21:05, andrew interchill wrote:
Quasga - when we started making really good $ from digital then the illegal copying became less of an issue...

one you can control and drive... the other you can do nothing about

copiers are going to do it anyway - and if you're looking for culprits then the import facility on itunes is a good one - makes ripping a cd very easy



Culprits? Dood, I'm a digital designer, not an authority.

Not looking to blame, just pointing out that digital makes things easier to pass around, that's it. Just wanted an answer to why Brett thought that "affordable digital downloads" will actually decrease sharing/copying.

xuam
Inactive User

Started Topics :  2
Posts :  53
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 03:47
Quote:

On 2007-04-24 00:16, Quasga wrote:

Maux,

I simply adore your indirect tactics....

......

If you're implying my music is un-original then you should just come out and say it instead of tip-toeing around it.




dear Quasga

my tip-toeing and dribblings are so good that this time you score in your own goal m8. ;-)

even if you can't believe me, this time you were not at the center of my thoughts.

I think that we all are too much concerned about piracy, instead of being concerned about originality.

honestly, I don't know your music yet (excuse my unforgivable ignorance)...should I look for it on the P2P ? do you have a myspace page ?
I swear, if it was available to buy it right now from this desktop, I would burn few euros for the sake of listening to it and know better where you coming from.

if this time you can understand what I am writing (I drunk enough english teas maybe?) why don't you face the debate instead of writing boring and useless personal attacks ?

even if I don't like too much his champaigne attitude, I actually totally agree with Brett and his clever posts:
affordable digital downloads and generally affordable music will decrease the copying, it's a fact...it's happening right now,often it's more easy to buy than spending hours searching on the pirate market.

but Brett, I understand that you like pure sound, so don't trust ANY code claiming to be loseless.
even a digital copy on a cdr is loosing data, and also digital download is...all of this is encoding, music is stored in massive hard disks...many numbers, some zeroes and some ones get messed up in the pipes.

I agree with Andrew, Beatport is a good tool for dance djs, but it lacks totally about pure listening music (the chill out section simply sucks), and the prices for wavs are too high (they play very well on the hype)...
but I hate iTunes MS and it's propietary podshit...and actually my debit card is not even accepted there....so I can't really find yet a good online store that I trust and respect.

and...maybe you (you here is for all of you and not for Quasga) don't know it but official data says that when you purchase online form a shop like the fu***ing iTunes MS the percentage of your money going to the credit cards (visa, mastercard etc) is higher than the one going to the artists...and this is a bit disgusting for me.

when it is possible I prefer to buy directly from the artists or from the labels sites, but I know that setting up a secure shop is expensive and it could increase the costs of distribution even more than pressing and shipping plastic cds.

and another issue here, with fisical cds was relatively easy to check the number of the sales from the distributor...instead with digital downloads it isn't possible to have a secure figure...it's all controlled by a software.

I think that a more horizontal market made of small indipendent shops will be more healthy than those horrible supermarkets.

again...pop will eat itself.
andrew interchill
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  435
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 03:51
re: Just wanted an answer to why Brett thought that "affordable digital downloads" will actually decrease sharing/copying.


if someone is comfortable with copying then pricebreaks aren't going to really sway them towards purchasing when they can copy

however i think you can say that if an album is massively overpriced then there is certainly a greater temptation to just go ahead and copy it

digital distro does solve the issue of an album not being available to buy when you want to buy it - something that might cause some to copy

one thing this thread has done is to remind me to spend more time working the digital angle. Even though it does not really appeal to people here, iTunes is the one that consistently reaches the largest buying market. marketing to the psy/chill world is not really the way forward due to the limited numbers of people and the fact that they probably already buy or copy the releases.

getting iTunes to program and position titles is the challenge - but they have levelled the playing field somewhat; big distribution potential can be available to indie labels with strong crossover titles.

andrew interchill
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  435
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 04:14
hey Maux... we love small indie shops... and usually they get what we do and support it. i hate having to deal with chains and major distro - though we have to do it. you get the feeling that it is all a big waste of time, but you also know you're supposed to do it.

sure - iTunes ain't for purists, but it pays the bills - and that's good enough for me. I'm not a greedhead - any money that comes in is already allocated to go out - usually as an advance or a production cost. Dealing with iTunes is actually a good experience - the label relations people are kept separate from the accountants - an effort to "keep them honest" and just focused on good content. By contrast, my Warner Music Canada reps are usually focused on selling the albums that will move the most copies.

Sure it all makes the credit card companies prosper - but it is certainly better than dealing with them yourself. No thanks.

I think the royalty reporting in digital is not any greater of an issue than with physical stock...

One thing i would suggest that should become a standard is that individual digital track sales on compilations should be subject to a 50/50 split and not whatever split has been agreed for full album sales. more work to administer, but more equitable.

Quasga
Inactive User

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  498
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 04:53
Quote:

On 2007-04-24 03:47, xuam wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-04-24 00:16, Quasga wrote:

Maux,

I simply adore your indirect tactics....

......

If you're implying my music is un-original then you should just come out and say it instead of tip-toeing around it.



dear Quasga

my tip-toeing and dribblings are so good that this time you score in your own goal m8. ;-)

even if you can't believe me, this time you were not at the center of my thoughts.



Maux, my apologies. I wasn't sure since the last time you spoke to me was in the form of a nasty PM. I couldn't be sure if you were still harboring resentment towards me due to my previous words in another thread. Please excuse my assumptive accusations.

I understand your viewpoints whether I agree with them or not. I also respect people for having strong opinions whether or not I feel the same.

As for music, I don't really have a release, was just a hypothetical scenerio designed to make people think about the ramifications.








Quasga
Inactive User

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  498
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 04:56
Andrew:

I've never bought digital downloads - how does the art work come into play with your current digital distribution model?

This is a concern to me being as I make *most* of my living doing artwork for music artists.

If the demand for artwork diminishes, so does my current livelihood.
xuam
Inactive User

Started Topics :  2
Posts :  53
Posted : Apr 24, 2007 05:03
Andrew
nothing personal with you there...
I know that your attitude is honest and you do clean business and that my post may sound as useless purist criticism.
I dislike itunes MS but I agree on the fact that nowaday is probably saving the ass to all the music industry and that it's more fair trade than the usual big distributors.
I agree with you, the way forward is to break the barriers and go over the borders of the psy/chill aquarium, even if it's a very nice and colourful one...a more crossover attitude is very healthy, not only for the business but also for the mind and the music itself.
My opinion is very personal and it's not referred to your work.
time to sleep now...enough forums.

ciao
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