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Are trance artist's useing iligal soft's?
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agnindhana
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
74
Posted : Nov 28, 2003 13:57
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this is a very very interesting topic...
imo,it is pretty evenly balanced right now...artists do use the internet to download pirated swares,plug ins,samples...and are even taking others' tunes to remix,without permission...
no doubt,a lot of them buy or softwares too...
listeners/dj's do use the internet to dload music...
no doubt, a lot of them buy original cd's.
i dont think it makes any sense to get into monetary factors/quality/and the like cause it is constant in both cases...
now instead of complaining,i think we should try and start suggesting ways to make this a better situation for both sides...
a couple of things i can think of ~
-firstly,rec labels shld make sure that their cd's are available in every part of the world where there is a psy following...hell,we dont have a decent store in india...even now...how can u expect people place intl orders...pay shipping...and wait for the cd's to arrive...when the whole world has given it a listen already...and...when it is available free...
-rec labels should try and have a world wide release of thieir cd's,even if this means that a few store will have to sit on thier stock before release.
this will stop people from clamouring for the cd,on the net,as soon as it is released.
-rec labels shld stop being snooty and send promo cd's to dj's in every major psy hub...that will make them promote the cd's and will also stop dj's from downloading all their music.
-listeners should go out and buy cd's that they have heard...and like...
having said that...
without mp3 and the internet~
-it would have taken a couple of decades for the psy culture here to have reached this stage.
-we would not have the pleasure of having excellent artists play for us every weekend(we probably wouldnt have even heard of them...) 
- and psy would be underground,drug infused,music...restricted to a few small pockets...
when the dust settles we will see that this was all good...
keep the faith...and stay positive...
bom bom
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Nov 30, 2003 12:33
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On 2003-11-28 13:57, agnindhana wrote:
how can u expect people place intl orders...pay shipping...and wait for the cd's to arrive...when the whole world has given it a listen already...and...when it is available free...
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that's definetly wrong attitude. does it really matter if the album was released a month ago instead of yesterday? i sure don't think so..
 "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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TiMMY
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1480
Posted : Nov 30, 2003 15:53
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On 2003-11-22 13:36, slomi wrote:
Anakoluth, when you 22 you are much much smarter than 17 years old. (even from 18-19-20 years old)
I guess he asked because he don't want to spend his time with 17 years old kid who don't even listen to what people say to him. (i didn't meant to say you are 17 years old here  )
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This is completely offtopic, but I had to respond coz I'm sick of the 17 year olds bashing in here (though I'm not 17 anymore  ).
When you get older you get smarter indeed, but you forget one thing: it's all RELATIVE. which means that if I'm 17 right now, I'll probably be smarter as I grow up, but not necessarily smarter than people smaller than me.
I know 17 year old people who have expreinced much more than the average grown up person and I'm sure that Eskimo,Sento Sento,Fatali and Vibe Tribe (all are 17-18 year old artists) have much more to say about 320k vs. wave than any other average raver.
---
I'm not an experienced enough listener, but I can sure say I notice the difference between mp3 320k and wave, but it's really not that big (and don't worth the price of the CD, there are other good resons to buy CDs). |
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agnindhana
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
74
Posted : Dec 1, 2003 08:44
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sorry traveller...i am not talking only from my point of view,but from a third person point of view...
for eg...as a dj...and this is more pronounced in the psy arena...would u expect a dj to place an intl order and recieve the cd a month after it has been released and then get the same response for it when he plays it???i dont think so...
esp in psy scene...i dont understand it...most people give more importance to playing new music,rather than playing a good set...
there is absolutely no creativity involved in getting new music...i am sure we all know that,but still act differently...
and when in rome....
anyway,i am sure this will change,when music becomes more easily available,and everyone has access to everything...thats when the finer details will be noticed...
bom bom
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PsYmAnTiCs=]
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
88
Posted : Dec 8, 2003 18:57
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As a composer I can't agree with software piracy or mp3 d'loads. Then again, if Trance artists made the same cash that Eminem or Poo Daddy did, they'd have no need to use illegal warez.
Given the choice, when money isn't a problem, anyone will go for the original CD or software, before even the most perfect copy/crack.
Maybe the blame should go back to the industry, if Sony (and the other 2 majors) sell CDR's, writers and artists CD Albums, they supply all the tools to the illegal act of piracy, when they sell a CD for £16.00 (don't know how much in EU but it only cost's them about £0.025 to produce one album!) they give those who can't afford it the motive, so technically, they are accomplices to a crime!!
Still, please don't download underground tracks or from small independent labels who depend on our support. That will kill the scene cold. You'll be sorry when your favourite artists release their final cd. As far as Britney goes, if we can make her stop, then some piracy can be good after all! ;] |
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Anak
Anakoluth
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
2395
Posted : Dec 8, 2003 23:08
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On 2003-12-08 18:57, PsYmAnTiCs=] wrote:
Maybe the blame should go back to the industry, if Sony (and the other 2 majors) sell CDR's, writers and artists CD Albums, they supply all the tools to the illegal act of piracy, when they sell a CD for £16.00 (don't know how much in EU but it only cost's them about £0.025 to produce one album!) they give those who can't afford it the motive, so technically, they are accomplices to a crime!!
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technically we should burn all computers, they are accomplices to a crime!!
Anakoluth A Pebble in Your Eardrum's Shoe since 2001!
http://www.myspace.com/anakoluth
http://www.ektoplazm.com/profiles/anakoluth/
http://cronomi.com |
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PsYmAnTiCs=]
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
88
Posted : Dec 9, 2003 04:13
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Okay, like to start with your own pc?  |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Dec 9, 2003 21:30
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cost's them about £0.025 to produce one album
oh really? say it takes the band 12 months to compose the tracks. say they get 10 an hour a person. lets also say the the band has five members. lets say the work 10h a day. so
365 x 10 x 50 = 182 500
so now we have to record & master the album
i have no idea what so ever how much studio time costs and how long they need.
so lets just assume that after it's done the costs are:
250 000
now we need the graphics and the background checks, lawyer fees and stuff...
so
300 000 it's
now we have to produce the cds..
maybe .5 a cd?
..let's say we manufacter 50 000 copies..
= 25 000
so all the costs = 325 000
now lets say we sell them to distributors 8 a copy
100 sold copies = 800
1000 sold copies = 8000
10 000 sold copies = 80 000
50 000 sold copies = 400 000
now lets say that's it..
now all the taxes and crap and how big will the profit margin be? not too big really?
you still think they should sell an album for 1 ?
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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PsYmAnTiCs=]
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
88
Posted : Dec 10, 2003 03:58
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WHOA! Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that trance artists & labels produce albums cheaply but rip off the customer, I'm saying the exact opposite!!
I was talking about major labels (Sony, Time Warner, BMG etc) who reclaim ANY costs incurred from their artists & customers. Majors who produce vast amounts of each album. An independent label can't compete on that price level ( buy more and the batch of cd's is cheaper), plus the majors have bigger exposure through the media to sell their products.
I'm an artist myself, each of my tracks is like a child to me (even the bad ones). I spend about 12 hrs a day working on material, my stomach gets cramp from being hunched over my synths for so long and my eye twitches 'cos of my flickering monitor, but I wouldn't give it up for anything!!
I've worked as a studio sound engineer for over 5 years in various studios, with signed bands and local artists, I was in a rock band for 7 years, we recorded 2 albums, funded entirely by ourselves, so I fully understand the costs and sacrifices made by artists and how soul destroying it would be to have your art stolen!
My real point is that when you download, say, a Doof album, you take the money straight out of the artists hand and put the whole label at risk, which is just plainly wrong. When you download Britney or Eminem, Time Warner can still recoup the costs from their oil & media empire and they will still sell plenty of albums through stores.
The artists make more money from tours and personal appearances than from album sales anyway, CD sales are the biggest source of revenue for the major labels, they share practically nothing with the artist, in fact, TLC (Don't go chasing waterfalls) only got 1 cent for every copy sold of their album, even though it was a massive hit! Independent labels give a higher share of the profits back to the artist, which is another reason to support them by buying albums directly from them.
Sorry about the length of this post, I just had to clear that up! |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 10, 2003 14:45
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On 2003-12-10 03:58, PsYmAnTiCs=] wrote:
My real point is that when you download, say, a Doof album, you take the money straight out of the artists hand and put the whole label at risk, which is just plainly wrong. When you download Britney or Eminem, Time Warner can still recoup the costs from their oil & media empire and they will still sell plenty of albums through stores.
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Isen't it a bit double standard here
You find it wrong that people download our, the small artists, music (and I agree) but it's ok that they download Established, big selling, artists music?
ITS WRONG NO MATTER WHO'S MUSIC IT IS!
It's getting too much to hear that Britney, Enimem ect. and their Record labels are so evil and should be punished because they are good at selling music. I am sure if one of our bands in this scene "suddently" started to sell as much CDs then it would be oh so cool and "way to go"!
This hippy and anti music industry attitude is becoming a clichι in my opinion. But I can understand that the grapes are sour because NOT one of us artists have managed to appeal to a bigger audience than our own little sometimes very "narrowminded" group of elitist "trancers".
Stop this bashing of the major music industry. It's redicilious and frankly plain stupid!
It's not a attack on you PsYmAnTiCs. Just an observation of a general stupid attitude in our scene. |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 10, 2003 18:54
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On 2003-12-10 18:31, nectarios wrote:
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On 2003-12-10 14:45, Elysium Project wrote:
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On 2003-12-10 03:58, PsYmAnTiCs=] wrote:
My real point is that when you download, say, a Doof album, you take the money straight out of the artists hand and put the whole label at risk, which is just plainly wrong. When you download Britney or Eminem, Time Warner can still recoup the costs from their oil & media empire and they will still sell plenty of albums through stores.
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Isen't it a bit double standard here
You find it wrong that people download our, the small artists, music (and I agree) but it's ok that they download Established, big selling, artists music?
ITS WRONG NO MATTER WHO'S MUSIC IT IS!
It's getting too much to hear that Britney, Enimem ect. and their Record labels are so evil and should be punished because they are good at selling music. I am sure if one of our bands in this scene "suddently" started to sell as much CDs then it would be oh so cool and "way to go"!
This hippy and anti music industry attitude is becoming a clichι in my opinion. But I can understand that the grapes are sour because NOT one of us artists have managed to appeal to a bigger audience than our own little sometimes very "narrowminded" group of elitist "trancers".
Stop this bashing of the major music industry. It's redicilious and frankly plain stupid!
It's not a attack on you PsYmAnTiCs. Just an observation of a general stupid attitude in our scene.
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The big labels/"major music industry" are blood thirsty beasts.
If you've ever dealed with a big label you'd understand what I mean. If you ever read a contract from someone like Universal or Virgin you would not defend the major labels. They try to f*ck you over every chance they get.
They throw some silly amount of £40000 (at best) in your face for a 4 album contract.
It seems good if you are a starving artist, but from the peanuts that they give you in the beginning and the expenses you are supposed to cover (according to the contract) you end up with no money and 3 more albums to do for them for free.
Don't even think about putting the major labels on the same boat as the underground dance scene labels.
Some dance scene labels want people to be happy as their first objective, when their tunes are dropped in a party.
Trance labels release crap music as well. But they do not shuv it down people's throats like the majors do.
You might not even realise this, but the majors are one of the reasons a million more people did not hear your elephants and lions scream a few years back. You might not want to admit this, but the majors are one of the reasons you have a big posts count in this forum, instead of not even having time to check your mail from the four different corners of the world, where you'd be gigging day after day
What's becoming a cliche in my opinion, is the fact that a lot of talented, young or veteran artists, are growing older in front of the computer, complaining about life while she passes them by.
Peace out.
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I have not at all had your experience with major labels and believe me the ones I have worked with are 1.000.000 times more professional than any label in our little scene... And pay far far better than any of the little labels we deal with here. And it's abig misunderstanding that all major labels are blood suckers.. If you really knew the people working in the business (which I frankly doubt you do) then you would see that the majority is there because they love music!
And about the Elephant track... well what can I say.. If a certant un-named label would not have cheated us and used the money to build a studio for and released the track the way they promised us then we would for sure have made very good money out of it I know that track made it to the top10 of over 10 countries national radiostations. I am sure if that track had been released on a major label then I would have been quite rich today!
And please spare me your patrionising remarks about why I am in this forum. It's frankly none of your business mate and believe me you dont have aclue why i am here so much. I suggest you take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are here so much?
My post was not an attack on anyone personally as I also wrote in the end... Can you say the same about your post "mate"? What happened to writing a desent reply without insults?
Oh and about the gig remark... Well mate believe me I get quite a lot of gig offers arund the world to play full-on/psy (as I used to do for quite many years). I just dont feel connected to the psy/full on side anymore and say no thank you because I would feel that I waste their time and steal money from people that think I would be there because I enjoyed it and liked the music...!!!
I am into other sides of the scene now and doing ok even though it's always hard to make a come back after some years away.
But I still DJ ambient and ocasionally play "live" when I feel there's a good connection and chemestry with the organiser.
Did that answer your questions? |
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Dec 11, 2003 00:36
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Lots of people have the curiosity about making music, and now they can try if they want, because of all the cracked programs available, and I think it is great.
If u have just the curiosity but never tried it, your not gonna spend like 1000E to get a couple of programs to see what happens, nobody will (unless ppl loaded with cash that give no value about anything, because they have it all)
Ok, so you get a couple of soft music making programs in the internet, you try it out, if u like it and r willing to go for it and dedicate your time to do music (it consumes a lot of time!) great, otherwise no probs also because u didn't spend anything $.
Now, if u want to go professional (and this programs are designed for professionals), and release stuff, I think its quite important to buy the software. I think cracked programs actually may help on the sales, look at the amount of ppl doing music now, that woudn't happen if it wasn't for piracy.
So my conclusion is, I think cracked programs are very good to get more ppl into doing music, wich is a wonderfull thing, but on the day you start making money from it, I think its important to have the licences.
About the price of the programs, I can't say I actually think they are very expensive...as most ppl here think...Ppl tend to think about programs has a cd and a box, and tend to forget all that is behind it...
Let me guive an example (very unfortunatelly its a microsoft example, a company that not me nor anyone likes, but its the only example I know in numbers...)
Microsoft Word has 2 000 000 (yes, two million) lines of code....
Do u know how many lines of code a programmer does in average a day? well let me tell you, average its 20-30 lines of code a day per programmer...!
But lets consider 30...It means that it takes like 6 months for a group of 500 diferent programmers in order to make it...hehehe, lots of money
Anyway f... microsoft, but its an example to have an idea of how complex it is do develop things like logic and cubase, it takes a lot of effort and loads and loads of money...
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Ulf:G
Weirdo Beardo
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
174
Posted : Dec 11, 2003 02:05
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Do u know how many lines of code a programmer does in average a day? well let me tell you, average its 20-30 lines of code a day per programmer...!
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Really??? How many fingers does these programmers have? one? |
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Dec 11, 2003 06:19
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10 finguers, but only 1 brain!
of course, im talking about serious programming, for the total computer geek
hehe
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