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Trance Forum » » Forum  The Workshop - annoying clean / no warmth ?

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annoying clean / no warmth ?

gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  3018
Posted : Dec 22, 2008 10:05:02
well i came up with a tune, progressive like and experimenting yesterday and somehow i wanted to make a "clean" mix to have room and play with small sounds and space, but now listening it to some crappy desktop speakers seems so empty or cold and no warm at all.
would like to keep on that tune cause it got me interested but its always so annoying, this A/B always leaves queries ..
please check it if u can and any advice on the sound "image" is welcomed
ps. no eq/comp or others used on kick/bass, only some small limiting on master
thanx isras



Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  1772
Posted : Dec 22, 2008 13:22
imo the kick is a bit too soft and dry and the bass pitch is too high..almost somewhere between a bassline and a lead.

I would suggest tweaking the source..eq and compression aren't going to help much for what I'm hearing.

btw, I think it's a good idea to check you mix on more "average consumer" type systems, but you should never cater your mix to those systems specifically. Leave it up to the listener to have a system that your mix will sound decent on, and make your mix sound amazing on good monitors.           You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me?
gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  3018
Posted : Dec 22, 2008 13:52
thanx Kane
i try to avoid compressors everywhere, dont like them especially on bass,, just to mention & try to focus always on the source as you said ,, maybe i chose the wrong kick and made a wrong bass on it
but really the bass pitch is too high? maybe the filter needs to be more closed , i ll have to dig that a lot
Quote:
make your mix sound amazing on good monitors.


thats what im doing unfortunately mate
infinite headache

ps. about the kick being too soft you said, is that going for the timbre of the kick in that specific mix or for the kicks volume ?
thanx
Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  1772
Posted : Dec 22, 2008 15:07
The attack and "blip factor", not the volume or intensity..that comment doesn't have a lot to do with what you're talking about though..just my opinion. The bass pitch is definitely too high, at least imo. Try taking it an octave down and adjusting the filter if necessary.           You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me?
gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  3018
Posted : Dec 22, 2008 15:43
i see maybe we did not make a good communication haha ..
cause i was not after a "blip" sound but after a more "roundish" sound both on kick and bass, the bass has an attack of 7(on Virus) and the kick shaped in Kontakt with an attack to make them more rolling AND the waves collapse between each other i think it produced a more "folding" sound & relationship between kick&bass .. mmm i got lost a while now, im gonna work on it when get home , thanx again mate
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  1055
Posted : Dec 22, 2008 16:43
im currently at work so im not gonna comment about the warmth, but for the pitch i think its to high as well.

for my own sake i´ve been using the preamp simulator that comes with URS console strip if you want a more subtile analogue feeling. Try it its a pretty tasty thing           Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/
gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  3018
Posted : Dec 22, 2008 17:02
damn i dont thing i have it but that can be fixed , thanx 4 the advice vegetal man
cheers
Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  1772
Posted : Dec 23, 2008 03:54
One more tip: stuff like the BBE sonic maximizer plugin (never used it but I have the rack version) and Waves R Bass is great for basslines. Great way to tighten up the bass and give the mids and low highs more definition without eq and compression.

Vintage Warmer is a different story but will give it an analog touch too..

Good luck           You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me?
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Dec 23, 2008 21:38
^^
they are great but they can also ruin evrything
mild use only i found to end up as good in the mix           www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  3018
Posted : Dec 24, 2008 11:20
yes most of times this plugins mud the lows when putting much , i think the rbass or maxxbass is nice when you make a group channel with kick+bass and both of the elements miss some really lows like 30-40Hz you can add a little of them but never on bass track, everything become somehow unstable and spoiled in comparison to a nice big sine wave for example.

anyway i always find out that my biggest problem is my f&%4ng room acoustics at the most important low-mid area , thats why most of times i end up pushing all the 150-400hz more so it can be audible in my place and then it sounds more boomy and thin because again these frequencies are masking the more lows ,, just shit im so disappointed with that and always change my view on mixing ,, i think the only way is to listen to commercial tracks as much to configure how the frequencies -should- sound and mix then according to that image else im always going to have a wrong mix according to the image and the sound of the room..
it is just plain disappointment, wish i had THE place for music before everything, no matter plugins, synths and expensive stuff are useless compared to a right acoustic place.. the only good on that is that i get angry and force myself to work and trace the mistakes more, but doesnt that take too much time from creativity and fun? endless story..
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Dec 24, 2008 12:33
^^
buy acoustic treatment?
even the cheaper ones from foam , just to stop hate the room. bass traps will word great on the area you mention           www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  3018
Posted : Dec 24, 2008 12:52
yeap Elad ,, ive bought an auralex kit , which i dont recommend anyone to buy it cause its crap , also have build 2 big corner traps for the front corners from bottom to ceiling and two panels one covering the front wall and one covering the front up corner , aiming to my mix position,
these have helped , basically the most helpful and much much more efficient is the front area with my handmade traps,, the Auralex are totally CRAP imho ,, dont waste your money on these fake products (my advise)
but again my friend the problems are really big and audible,, ive searched and spoke with acoustic designers (also did some acoustics on my SAE course) and for making an efficient place for sound is so much work,, you really need helmholtz resonator ceiling , much bigger corner traps ,, right placed diffusers and again an empty dedicated place to setup all these ... haha
i have to compromise with that (but always makes me angry )
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  1055
Posted : Dec 24, 2008 12:53
Thread hijack
Hey gutter i just did some DIY isolation in my studio and i spent aprox 100€ on it and its like night and day. addtitional 100€ and i think its complete. Not perfect i need to do some measuring, gonna borrow some B&K mics from work and analyze it in PULSE.
Im gonna put up a few pictures and a smaller work log on my new studio after new year together with some spectrum analysis of the before treatment and after.

Just need some more rockwool and im done, btw what thickness is recommended, have installed 5 cm thickness atm but i guess the fatter the better when it comes to basstraps.
          Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/
gutter
Inactive User

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  3018
Posted : Dec 24, 2008 13:09
indeed for bass traps, especially for corners the best is the 150kg/m3 rockwool and it is more efficient when you place the traps with an air gap behind
cause the best bass trap in the world is the empty space with air behind,, which means a helmholtz resonator in a way,, so i think for the corners if you have enough space make two panels (the classic shape 1.20X0.60) to cover a 2.5 about height of the room , and use two rockwool panels of 150kg/m3 and thickness of 5cm, means total 10cm , on each wooden panel, think of that if you put them with some space between is better than placing right on each other,,
and place those traps on corners , and leave the empty space behind them as it is
This empty space will absorb the low frequencies more & better than the trap itself,, its the place where the low frequencies will catch up and the trap will not leave the lows back in the room
no hijack at all, its very interesting conversation about acoustics
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  1055
Posted : Dec 24, 2008 13:21
yeah i know they are placed with a airgap in the corner basicly forming a symetrical triangle. Not sure about the density on these panels. The company that sold them to me didn´t even know it was rockwool ill see if i can get a scale and calculate the density after these holidays. But like you said im thinking of adding 2 panels in each corner since its a real bitch getting to those low freq. THinking of placing them in a wooden frame but that requires me to find become more carpenterish and more equipment. living in a apt its not a easy thing to do

Any ideas of how to attach these panels on to a concrete roof ? one idea i had was to place one above me in mirror position from the monitors and letting it "float" in the air with strings attached and nails fixated in the walls.


          Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/
Trance Forum » » Forum  The Workshop - annoying clean / no warmth ?

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