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Trance Forum Ľ Ľ Forum  Production & Music Making - 432hz
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IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  204
Posted : Oct 5, 2017 13:21:25

The first thought I had when I saw this image was that the pattern of 432hz looks organic and 440hz looks digital.

The endless debate about 432hz tuning goes on, and when you do some research you see that both sides does have valid points. But really, what is the truth.
Yeah i know you can come and bring your opinion to the table aswell, but how do you really know. That question remains.

Certain websites do point out that many beliefs about 432hz isínt quite true. The Nazi thing, Mozartís tuning / Verdi etc. However, you could then also assume that maybe itís a cover up by, who knows. Someone that wants to keep us depressed, lol, if you believe in the theory. You also need to realize that lower notes/tuning does give a warmer sound. Which is what I heard in a comparison with a guitar piece. Sure the things they state with the link between 8hz Ė Planets heart beat / DNA repair and 432hz is cool, but life is never so accurate. Meaning exactly 8hz. But maybe closer to it is better.

No-one really knows,, that is the point. So what was the conclusion I ended up with?
If the theory is false or made up, then it wouldnít matter if you used 432hz tuning, because your music would just be detuned with a few cents lower. No harm in that, is there? Only downside would be the time it takes you to tune everything.
If the theory is correct then your music will carry healing frequencies and will help people in ways we would not know about. Even kicks can be tuned, following the 432hz frequency chart and getting the fundamental on your root note.
So in the end I have decided to tune my music. Just for the possibility that it is true. Using omnisphere 2 makes it very easy. Best synth I have ever used and will probably never switch to another.

Just a thought ÖÖÖ.
          " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. "
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  204
Posted : Oct 5, 2017 14:45

Final thing I want to add was kinda weird. Many times when I am bored I hum music in my head. And having the 432hz thing in my thoughts lately I got a question. How close is my humming to the correct notes. I know the tones - being a guitar player, but I cannot tune a guitar by ear and have it perfect in tune on 440hz.

So I downloaded a tuner on my phone and hummed a few notes. And what was weird is the pitches I chose to hum on memory was actually closer to the 432hz frequency chart than the 440hz. Like with 2hz difference.

Thats crazy - cause these pitches are just what i chose naturally. Maybe that was the way people tuned instruments in the old days, On ear, well obviously. But,, does that mean that the pitches we choose to hum / thats in our heads, are the true frequencies that resonates within our being.

          " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. "
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1350
Posted : Oct 5, 2017 15:00
Read this:

I hope this will be enough for you to grasp that most of what you've written here, in this post, is factually wrong.

There's no good arguments on both sides. There's one side making extraordinary claims for which there isn't any evidence whatsoever, making things look like there is by cleverly cherry picking the results that seem to confirm their previously formed views (check "confirmation bias"), while ignoring the valid claims made from contesters, going as far as portraying them as being part of some major cover-up conspiracy to block the common people from achieving this allegedly precious truth.

And then there's science, which simply says what the evidence shows to be true. What they or anyone who repeats the tests will attest themselves. Because, to put it simply, science is about how things work and why they work the way they work. It's also a toolset for preventing us from fooling ourselves - which we're very prone to do.

There's a lot of knowledge out there about sound and acoustics and all of it is available to anyone interested and willing to put in the time to dig through it all. Furthermore, it's really fascinating stuff. It's the theory that makes your speakers work, it's what's behind any form of DSP that goes on within your DAW or plug-ins! For a very good reason too: because it works!

IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  204
Posted : Oct 6, 2017 15:36

Yeah I know, and the article you provided does make very good points. Like I said, I believe in it, and also i don't. But my point was that using 432hz won't make my music worse or anything, so it shouldn't even matter if it's true or not.

I am probably a fool for putting in the effort to retune everything, and I will accept insults from anyone because of it. But maybe it's because I choose to believe it, which will give it power.

At the end of the day there is also the possibility which remains, that maybe all Facts are illusions. And the logic, programmed in our brains, actually distracts us from the real truth. i.e. how was God created? The first one? Maybe the reason we cannot answer it is because our level of thinking is limited to our Logic and reality, governed by someone/something else.

So yeah, I'm still gonna do it. For the hell of it.

          " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. "
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1350
Posted : Oct 6, 2017 18:23
You're right when you say that doing this won't have any detrimental effect on your sound. It surely won't make or break any production.

But it will not, also, add anything special to it: no magical powers, no special alignment with the laws of nature or the frequency of the planets on our solar system, let alone the universe at large. All of that - and I really don't mean to sound patronising here - is just wishful thinking.

People that push that sort of theory regardless of the absence of evidence to support it and actually going to great lengths so as to avoid being confronted with the truth of the matter, can only be described as con-artists and the enterprise can best be described as pseudo-science.

With that in mind, the question on your original post would read something like:

- What's the harm in believing BS?

And the answer to that question isn't easy. But among other things, the authors that are pushing this theories are also promoting distrust on the people who actually known what they're on about. Not just that, they also encourage people to leave behind logic and reason (not cubase because they probably never heard of it), along with critical thinking.

What's the harm in that?

Have you ever read the cavern allegory by Plato? That would be a good illustration to this case or scenario. It's like an ancient version of the Matrix, if you will ('cause it's really obviously the other way around).

Would you be fine if you were to find out later on in your life that you've really taken the wrong pill?

That you started out with an honest feeling that something is wrong or just plain curiosity and that you've somehow fallen for some silly crap that just got popular thanks to people's gullibility mixed with the global reach anyone can go for on social networks.

By believing in something that's not true, you're not giving the lie any power. What you believe or don't has no such reach and effect. That's another belief that you'd do well to shake off.

How was God created? I think it was ink and papyrus. But if probably all just burst into being from our fear of the unknown and our existencial terror facing a vast universe with no prescribed meaning.

Our level of thinking isn't limited by our logic. Our lack of logic is what's been limiting us for far too long. We should embrace it as one of our best traits and do our best to light a candle in the dark.

Again, I sincerely hope you don't get offended with any of this. Have a good day. Cheers

IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  204
Posted : Oct 7, 2017 12:45

Why would I get offended by an opinion. You clearly have your set of beliefs - but still you also, like me, cannot prove any of the facts. All knowledge we get is from someone else / something we read.

Which means that if we were in the matrix, all logic would be controlled by a higher being. Eventhough we believe we are right, we are merely puppets in a play.

Like I said you could throw any article . blog in my face proving that this theory is made up, but the question would then be, why was it made up. What would that person gain from it. If you said, as a prank, or to fool naive believers then so be it. Someone clearly realized something about that tuning, maybe he was crazy or fooled by the fact that lower tones do promote a warmer sound. Still .... it really would not matter.

Even if everything is a lie, then I would still do it, just to be different than normal musicians. Sure it would not be linked to any magical nature synchronicity, but that will end up being irrelevant.

Yes I know there are crazy theories out there about a digital world, or the theory that we are all God looking out the eyes of different bodies. Still,, know that I think you are a very intelligent person that clearly needs to realize you were created for great things. And I hope you are pursuing that in your daily life.

Again - this debate can continue for eternity because even if you present me with anything out there that I am wrong, I still would do it, because,,, I choose to believe it. Everything else to me, would only be opinions and theories.

          " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. "
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1350
Posted : Oct 7, 2017 14:22
Glad I don't have to worry about you getting offended. That makes it a lot easier to have such a debate.

Why would you get offended? Just take a look at whatever social network you're a part of. There's a reason why identity politics became a thing: people these days have a tendency to grow attached to their own ideas, specially when they require some form of denial of the evidence or, simply, arguments from the other side of the fence.

This is particularly true for anything that comes from the anti-science team. The way they portray their contesters is nothing short of a caricature - a classic straw man argument. It's sort of become a classic, these days, to see someone who dares challenge the conspiracy mindset to be called, among other equally lovely things, a paid shill.

I think if we're to go with the evidence alone, and that means putting our emotions and whatever we'd like to be true aside and make a compromise to just look at the evidence and see the picture that it seems to portray, then it'd be safe to assume that this theory simply doesn't hold up. It doesn't. It's not like it hasn't been proven. It's just that you have chosen not to acknowledge that it is like that, even though it is.

Can you refute any of the information on that link? Isn't it true that it demolishes every single argument in favour of such a theory? After that's said and done, the question is much more like:

- how can you pretend that it's still a sound possibility after it was shown to you that not a single argument on that theory has any soundness to it?

Oh, that's right, because you have chosen to dismiss the evidence and go with what feels like to you.

You've said this yourself.

When you say that we all just take it from someone else. Well, a part of that, of course, is true. But the thing about science in particular, is that what's presented as such as been through a rigorous process (called pier-review) which basically means that the information and the testing procedure has been clearly presented to the community at large, ranging from all the laboratories, universities, so forth and so on; just so you can rest assured that if you were to repeat the experiences yourself, you'd come up with the same results. So it doesn't, in that sense, require any leap of faith to believe in it.

"(...) I sill would do it, because I choose to believe it"

On the other hand, most pseudo-scientific theories do require such a leap of faith. They haven't gone through the trouble of presenting their ideas and discussing them with the experts on the respective fields, they never submit their theories to testing, they wrongly portray both the specialists and the scientific enterprise in a vain attempt to discredit the very people who can point the finger at them and demonstrate that they're wrong, how they're wrong and why.

By doing that, they try to bulletproof their theories against any criticism that's sure to be coming their way. It's a shocking fact that this debates only ever seem to strengthen the previously formed believes of those who have already fallen for it.

Beliefs shouldn't be born out of choice. Knowing how things work at the sub-atomic level, for instance, isn't something I could rely on my own personal instincts to come up with conclusions. Neither could I trust my emotions. This is the kind of stuff that's challenging to get a real good grasp at, because, clearly, things seem to work in ways that are profoundly counter-intuitive to most of us.

If you pick quantum relativity as an example and do some research on that subject, you'll learn that it isn't just "a theory" - i.e. a mere hypothesis, even though a theory in science means much more then just that - but it's actually one of the most throughly tested theories in existence and the one that holds the record on how many highly specific predictions it makes that reality has shown to be true.

It's just a sad fact that most people aren't anywhere near the point where they could understand that this is exactly what goes on with science and just how spectacularly exact our current physics theories are, that it takes some major technological and financial efforts to even be able to test this stuff against reality - and now bare with me - in hopes that they'll find holes in their theories.

See? What most scientists do daily is try to find holes in current theories so as to advance our knowledge of things. Do you know of any author in the "alternative" world that does that? No, they just bulletproof their theories, they shut down their comment sections or they put more effort in discrediting their contestants then they do in proving their own theories's worth.

Why would that be?

Because their theories don't rely on evidence, they don't have any sound arguments, evidences or facts. They rely entirely on telling a story and convincing a crowd in the most cheap (but highly effective) ways possible, usually with a touch of "appeal to emotion". Easy enough, most people are ready to put the money on whatever message that makes them feel special or comfortable or, simply, just different. They don't care about nothing else.

What about the truth?

How can something be sacred, divine or even just profound with so much contempt for the truth? How can these authors be spreading a message of love while blatantly attacking so many people while they're at it?

Maybe that's because they can't stand on their own feet.

But we do. Don't we?
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  204
Posted : Oct 9, 2017 10:31
Still there are other coincidences when it comes to 432. Linking to aiding with your crown chakra allignment, and other past history. i.e.


By saying it is all made up, I could just aswell say that the other facts are made up. Eventhough you could be right - I don't quite get why u'r taking so much time to convince me. I suppose you like the thrill of the debate or something.

However if you really heard what I said before it was quite clear that I'm just not going to be convinced by anything you present to me. Due to the fact that we could live in a digital world where all facts would be controlled by an higher being or system. Another possibility could be that maybe our perception on reality is twisted. And the way we see the world is not 100% like it really is. This would then mean that all science is incorrect, cause we don't perceive number 10 out of 9. And only through evolution we could reach that higher truth.

Through my experience I realized that the possibilities of truth was endless, and nothing can really be proven - only based on something like science, what we see or hear or feel. By relying only on our senses to prove anything is a bit naive imo.

My only point remained that if there existed a crazy possibility that this theory was correct, and does change atoms and molecules to a more positive state, then my music would have something more. And if you are right and this theory is wrong - then my music would only be tuned lower by a few cents.

So really man, , , at this moment I don't care about who's right or wrong. I choose to go on faith.
          " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. "
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1350
Posted : Oct 9, 2017 11:58
Who said anything about being right or wrong?

This isn't your personal diary. This is a forum. You start a thread on a subject, you ought to expect some kind of feedback, no?

And that is exactly what you got, isn't it?

So what's the problem?

If you've already made up your mind, that what you're looking for isn't necessarily to debate now, is it? You're merely proselytising. And since this place is rather quite nowadays, then who do you think is really wasting their time here?

You're right that I do enjoy the thrill of a good debate. Always have. But this isn't a debate. You're brainwashed. You don't even allow yourself to consider the arguments headed your ways. There's a name for that and it's called wilful ignorance btw.

In case you haven't noticed, my contribution to this place was always the same. I just throw some information on people that I thing might help someone, not necessarily the person I'm presumably having a debate with - and it's established that this looks nothing like one - but so that other people who might read this will be presented with material to give it a second thought instead of jumping down the rabbit's hole to the point there's nothing that can reach them any longer.

Is that a good enough explanation as to why I'd be wasting my time (hardly "so much time", since I can write pretty fast) with this?

I'd like it if you could analyse your own assumptions, but you've made it clear that would really be a waste of anyone's time, wouldn't it?

When you're not willing to consider other people's opinions, you're not looking for a debate, you're looking for blind agreement - or silence. And how do you suppose that makes you look? By definition:

Serves you right I guess. But this isn't just about you.

Colin OOOD

Started Topics :  95
Posts :  5376
Posted : Oct 9, 2017 16:06
Why would anyone "choose to believe" something they themselves say is probably untrue?

Why is it that the only people to have got physically aggressive with me in recent years are those who insist that 432Hz music is the music of peace and enlightenment and who can't bear to hear arguments to the contrary?           Mastering - ::
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - :: ::
Contact for bookings/mastering -
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1350
Posted : Oct 10, 2017 12:09
It's like living within a Kafka novel.

It's no wonder we have this kind of subjects appear so often amongst the psychedelic crowds. I mean, if you look at festivals like Boom, they're all to happy to become the Disney World for New Age cons of all kinds and shapes, specially 'cause there seems to be an awful lot of money to be made from it.

It feels like a religion. And dissenters are prone to be met with the usual bigotry and prejudice, arrogance and psychological warfare that's been the true sign of spirituality since the dawn of times. All in the name of love, of course. You can tell by them using the heart emoticon whenever they comment on stuff they agree with.

I see this having an insidious influence amongst the younger crowds that join the scene. I'm not sure this used to be like that. I think it's a lot worse now. To the point that I need to force myself to avoid seeing what I do in the DAW as being akin to the local church organ player rehearsing his performance for Sunday morning, if you catch the drift.

IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  204
Posted : Oct 11, 2017 11:13

O ok are we down to insults now? (Let me guess, youíre gonna say, I did not insult you) Ė umm well you kinda did, indirectly Ė but I already realized that your Ego is so bloated you wonít be able to see it. You talk as if youíre the bees knees.

Always with your smart come back with your big words. Thinking that more complicated words will make you sound smart.
Insult Ė ďItís not about being right or wrong Ė youíre brainwashed.Ē Seriously? Based on what, the stuff you heard or read somewhere. Arenít you then also choosing to believe in the opposite of this. Itís funny how you tell me what I think only by reading what I wrote.

Like I donít consider what you are saying, well you also donít consider what I am saying. Again, you chose to believe that this isnít true Ė but then to blatantly tell me Iím brainwashed just shows me again how your Ego is struggling for power.

Insult Ė This isnít a debate. O Iím sorry, Isnít a debate a conversation between two people highlighting their beliefs on a subject. Just because you have facts and I donít does not change the fact on believing it or not. I actually did an experiment last night with raw sawtooth tones and did find that 440hz does lean more to a harshness on your ears, where 432hz does sound more acceptable over a long period.

I feel like an idiot complimenting you, cause you sound like a broken record in almost every post. Iím right, look at this, Youíre wrong, look at this. You donít prove anything to me presenting articles of others.

I never expected acceptance or silence Ė I was merely sharing my opinion on this subject. And then you came bashing me with how wrong I am. Then you actually have to audacity to tell me itís not about being right Ė so then what are you trying to do, obviously convince me that Iím brainwashed, in other words wrong. You contradict yourself cause of your need to sound smart.

Lastly, donít even bother replying to this, cause lol, Iím really not interested on how insulted you feel right now - and also won't read it, ,, if you read this far that is.

Also to any admins out thereÖ feel free to remove this thread and my profile aswell, cause I wonít be coming back to this place. I left Trance addicts back in the day, because of people like you Mr. frisbee. I will continue my search for like-minded people, considering other possibilities of truth and not just their own.

          " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. "
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1350
Posted : Oct 11, 2017 12:33
Listen. I'm fully aware that I may come across like a smart ass or a self righteous bastard. I also think that I've presented as good information as I could many times over here and that this record speaks for itself. Not that I'm specially concerned with what people think about me.

I do understand, however, that your critic seems to say a whole deal more about you then it does about me. Simply put, you don't actually know me. Do you realize that? You're just assuming things (again).

Goes without saying. I don't really care that you now see me as the enemy. The problem with people like you is that you can't see past your own fixed views and you're prone to take any confrontation as a personal insult. But how come that's got anything to do with me? Are you sure it isn't the other way around?

Well, brainwashed was perhaps a bit too much. I give you that. But based on your contempt for the facts and what you've written here alone, how else am I supposed to think? Didn't you state, very clearly, that none of the facts or evidence, no information that I might present you with would have any sort of effect whatsoever? Isn't that the very definition of brainwash? A person who's sunk so deep in their own views that nothing will make them change their minds?

If I may say so, you've labeled yourself like that. I just noticed it and put a stamp on it.

When one side claims that they'll not consider any information and that they'll never change their views, would you still call it a debate?

For all that matters, I was once convinced about this too. To be honest, not in the way you seem to be. I was presented with the facts and evidence and I did pull out a nasty scene. This happened right here, on this forum.

I managed to change my mind when presented with the facts, the same facts on that link. And I asked for all my rude posts to be deleted and I couldn't be more thankful that someone did that for me, btw.

Does it take swallowing our pride? Sure does. Isn't that what learning is all about after all? It's only when we mix our own sense of worth with the ideas we entertain in our minds that we get insulted by having people challenging them. That's hardly anyone else's fault. And I do hope, sincerely, that a day will come when you see through it and realize that I may, indeed, write in a fashion that seems a little arrogant, I give you that, but I'm just throwing ideas that I think might help someone - either you or someone else.

If you just look for like-minded people, if you just sail the internet to the shores you know will make you feel comfortable, you're setting yourself on a path that will ultimately mean you'll be living in an ideological echo-chamber, like many many people do these days. The fact that I'm bothered to challenge you shows that I do, in fact, care enough to do it even when I know beforehand that it will backfire and I'm sure to be met with some heat.

I'm just beginning to realize that I couldn't give less of a fuck about other people's assumptions about me. Life is too short to be bothered with such trivial things. And I won't shy away from pointing the finger on BS when I see it. And I'm more then happy to explain it, or to show the way so that people might come to that realisation themselves. So yeah, hate me all you want. Hate the link as well. Hate on science, claim that there's no more need for specialists or specialised knowledge for all I care.

IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1350
Posted : Oct 11, 2017 19:55
So I did ignore some of your arguments, like the tests you did yourself to attest to the superiority of this tuning system.

In one of them, you reached the conclusion that your recorded voice was closer to the 432Hz tuning system then it was to the standard one, with a margin of just 2Hz. Why on earth would a 2Hz deviation matter much, hey?

I don't know, but for some people it's the difference between, say, a Nazi conspiracy and blissful harmony with the universe?!

So does a small deviation in tuning matter or not?

We all know how it goes, right? I'm such a smart ass, with my big words and all that, that I constantly contradict myself (sigh).

Then we have this other experiment you've also done yourself just to burry the subject once and for all. You've played yourself two raw sawtooth waves with both tunings only to conclude (which was quite a surprise to anyone reading this besides bloated egos like myself, I'm sure of that) that 432Hz sawtooth was much better after long exposure. I actually think it's lovely that you'd torture yourself in such a way, all in the name of science!

Have you ever heard of a double blind study? And why is it that people go through the trouble of doing them? (Hint: this was another insult somehow, take note).

Were you actually claiming that I ignored the links you've posted? Because if you had read the very first link on my very first answer on this thread, you'd see that all those points were dealt with in such a fashion that it simply doesn't add up to insist on the same arguments over and over - along with the circular reasoning (Hint: another insult, perhaps double insult due to the big words).

On that link, on the bottom, you can find a nice list of references. I'm terribly sorry that I wasn't the author of any of them, since I can see how that somehow makes me such an unoriginal thinker that I should probably feel ashamed of myself.

Well, have you ever noticed that there's such a thing as an outside reality independent of your own thoughts and opinions? And thus, there's actually things that are true and things that are false. And the way to come to terms with what's right and what's wrong, at least on this planet, has been the scientific method, which was what's been used to come up with the information on the article.

There's other stuff you've said, like because you think there's this possibility that we're living in a digital simulation of sorts, that would, in your mind, require some higher being behind it, for some reason, then all science would in fact be wrong and all facts invalid.

This is so grandiose you should be awarded a Nobel Prize, honestly. It reads something like:

because I think that there's a chance this might be true, then this had to be true as well, therefore all the stuff that's really true and tested must be wrong, because what I believe in will only be reached after some evolution...

I'll leave this one to someone else. You've said it yourself (and I took note) that I was wasting my time. You've convinced me of this much, so thank you. Now I shall go back to my evil 440Hz life, with my inflated ego and my utmost desire to hold control over other people - which is only natural after spending so much time listening to so much 440Hz tuned music. That's really the only reason why I struggle for absolute power. It's really not my fault. If only I could retune it some 2 or 3 Hz down, it would all be ok somehow. Enjoy your new 432 forum with people who also don't care for facts and who choose to go with faith alone. Dog bless you and all that.
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