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Trance Forum  Forum  DJing - 320 vs. wav
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320 vs. wav

polly
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  203
Posted : Apr 29, 2009 12:47
Quote:

On 2009-04-29 12:21, DJSarasin wrote:
I will say this:

If you gonna play mp3....make sure ALL your tracks are the same kind of mp3.

If you gonna play CD's....ONLY PLAY CD's.

This way....you will have the same level of quality the whole way through (hopefully).

So if you playing MP3's....and the quality is lacking a bit....at least the Sound Technician can make some adjustments and they will stay that way through out your set.

Play them all mixed up....and it WILL be noticable.



I dont see it to make any difference.
Production quality and mastering quality on released cd's has a huge differences.

And i still beleave that there is no hearable difference between 320 mp3 and wav, i have made some tests and i didnt hear or feel anyhing (with a big soundsystem)
off course my mp3s were properly converted to mp3 and PROPERLY converted back to wav.
if you burn mp3's with windows media player u will get crappy results.

i made this kind of test also.
converted wav with lame to mp3 and burned it with nero then put both on cd players and recorded that with soundforge and checked peaks on both and they were identical, i'm not saying freqs were identical but it didnt affect on level of the track....

I usually never play mp3's but i dont see why i cant play, there is no real reason not to play it.

my quest is just to open peoples eyes to the reality that 320 mp3 is not unplayable

if yo are playing 192 mp3 u should be kicked to ass since most definedly those were downloaded from P2P network
          http://www.myspace.com/polly_potb
http://www.miazu-polly.com
http://www.sangomarecords.com
http://www.peopleofthebutterflies.org
polly
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  203
Posted : Apr 29, 2009 12:58
ANYONE of you who have access to test this on big pa system could you make this kind of test.

make 320 mp3 of track
convert it back to wav and burn it
go to party before it starts
match same track on channel 1 and channel 2 and ask your friend to switch x-fader between these two as you are listening that on sweet spot and please post here what u hear or feel           http://www.myspace.com/polly_potb
http://www.miazu-polly.com
http://www.sangomarecords.com
http://www.peopleofthebutterflies.org
DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  789
Posted : Apr 29, 2009 13:10
Quote:

On 2009-04-29 12:47, polly wrote:
Quote:

On 2009-04-29 12:21, DJSarasin wrote:
I will say this:

If you gonna play mp3....make sure ALL your tracks are the same kind of mp3.

If you gonna play CD's....ONLY PLAY CD's.

This way....you will have the same level of quality the whole way through (hopefully).

So if you playing MP3's....and the quality is lacking a bit....at least the Sound Technician can make some adjustments and they will stay that way through out your set.

Play them all mixed up....and it WILL be noticable.



I dont see it to make any difference.
Production quality and mastering quality on released cd's has a huge differences.

And i still beleave that there is no hearable difference between 320 mp3 and wav, i have made some tests and i didnt hear or feel anyhing (with a big soundsystem)
off course my mp3s were properly converted to mp3 and PROPERLY converted back to wav.
if you burn mp3's with windows media player u will get crappy results.

i made this kind of test also.
converted wav with lame to mp3 and burned it with nero then put both on cd players and recorded that with soundforge and checked peaks on both and they were identical, i'm not saying freqs were identical but it didnt affect on level of the track....

I usually never play mp3's but i dont see why i cant play, there is no real reason not to play it.

my quest is just to open peoples eyes to the reality that 320 mp3 is not unplayable

if yo are playing 192 mp3 u should be kicked to ass since most definedly those were downloaded from P2P network





Sure, agreed!

But i meant Mastered CD's!

If you gonna play mp3,then a mastered CD,then a unreleased unmastered track in a row, you will hear the differance my friend.

It might not be a HUGE difference but the Mastered CD for instance will be much clearer than the unmastered.

Not so?

If you gonna play DLed MP3's.....from p2p....then you should not have been booked in the first place!

Agreed!

          Beartrap - SA

WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk
DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  789
Posted : Apr 29, 2009 13:12
I am not arguing that 320 Mp3 is sounding differant to a Wav.

This i trully don;t know.

But from my experience, as mentioned above, this is the case.

          Beartrap - SA

WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk
polly
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  203
Posted : Apr 29, 2009 13:20
yes but what u said has nothing to do with this subject its more of knowing your tracks and what u can play after one track and what u cant.

I get this problem often and it has nothing to do what format track is or is it unreleased or from released album.

there is just huge quality differences between psy tracks and u have to level with it, eqs can save a lot.

you have one track with hard kicking kick and then one really super track with really fat kick and u want to play both on same set, then u just have to build bridges to be able to play them both....

and to be honest only dj's care about your mixing skills for the crowd its only about your selection and charisma mainly charisma (please dont get stuck on this )
          http://www.myspace.com/polly_potb
http://www.miazu-polly.com
http://www.sangomarecords.com
http://www.peopleofthebutterflies.org
DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  789
Posted : Apr 29, 2009 18:19
Yeah....i suppose its not.
And you correct in what you saying.....agreed.

Obviously tracks are all differant. EQing is your friend and good old gain for the unmastereds!

But you also not understanding my point i am trying to make.

No problem.....another thread!

After DJing for more than 10 years....i can agree with you 110% about the charisma part.

I have tried and tested it to tell the truth!

          Beartrap - SA

WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk
enichkin
eniChkin Project

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  206
Posted : May 5, 2009 13:14
If you can't hear/feel the difference between [320 units of information per second] and [1411 units of information per second] then you are able to perceive maximum 1/4 of music. This is obvious.           
(L)ayered
(I)ntelligence
(F)orming
(E)nergy
polly
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  203
Posted : May 5, 2009 14:18
Quote:

On 2009-05-05 13:14, enichkin wrote:
If you can't hear/feel the difference between [320 units of information per second] and [1411 units of information per second] then you are able to perceive maximum 1/4 of music. This is obvious.



can you give me any proof of that other than numbers.
I maybe take this too seriously but i would like to see or hear real test results on this subject saying that someone can feel or hear differences on live situation.

          http://www.myspace.com/polly_potb
http://www.miazu-polly.com
http://www.sangomarecords.com
http://www.peopleofthebutterflies.org
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : May 5, 2009 17:58
Quote:

On 2009-05-05 13:14, enichkin wrote:
If you can't hear/feel the difference between [320 units of information per second] and [1411 units of information per second] then you are able to perceive maximum 1/4 of music. This is obvious.



By the same logic that dictates that if you can read a text file that has been zipped to 100KB from 1MB you are able to perceive 1000% of text information.

First of all in an average track almost 50% of the data is redundant if you like to be able to exactly recreate the information bit by bit.

Question is, can you hear if you take away another 50% of data which is masked or outside the human hearing range?
If you can, post your WinABX log or link to a test confirming your claim.           (``.(``.(``..`).`).`)
.....www.ResonantEarth.com.....
(.`(.`(.```.)``.)``.)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Upavas
Upavas

Started Topics :  150
Posts :  3315
Posted : May 5, 2009 22:08
Quote:



Question is, can you hear if you take away another 50% of data which is masked or outside the human hearing range?
If you can, post your WinABX log or link to a test confirming your claim.




The question is irrelevant, since generally there is a low pass filter present at 20khz and the higher frequencies get cut off to avoid aliasing... so your data does not contain any frequencies higher than 20khz!

As far as posting a link to any kind of test result, what good would it make Spindrift, you are so total in your belief that there is no audible difference that it does not make sense to post any links...           Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : May 6, 2009 01:10
Quote:

On 2009-05-05 22:08, Upavas wrote:

The question is irrelevant, since generally there is a low pass filter present at 20khz and the higher frequencies get cut off to avoid aliasing... so your data does not contain any frequencies higher than 20khz!


The question is irrelevant?
Does it not matter if you can hear the difference or not?
Can you clearly hear 20kHz, even when it's only a sine wave in isolation?

Quote:

On 2009-05-05 22:08, Upavas wrote:

As far as posting a link to any kind of test result, what good would it make Spindrift, you are so total in your belief that there is no audible difference that it does not make sense to post any links...


Aha...so you have links to test confirming your claims...you just refrain from posting them because you think I will not believe them anyway?

I have posted several links which confirm my claims already.
I have set up a test in this forum where no participants managed to correctly tell mp3's from wav.
I have done ABX testing myself and is more than willing to show the logs.

So far no-one in this topic, nor anywhere else what I have seen, managed to post anything even attempting to prove that a high quality mp3 can easily be distinguished from the original wav.
That hardly has anything do with my expectations of that evidence.

The fact is that there is plenty of evidence that high-bitrate mp3 encoding is transparent.
If you claim the opposite I think it's fair to ask that you present at least something more than your own subjective opinion on the matter. You have failed to do that, and don't blame it on me. Just ignore me and post your evidence for the rest of the people reading this thread.           (``.(``.(``..`).`).`)
.....www.ResonantEarth.com.....
(.`(.`(.```.)``.)``.)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
enichkin
eniChkin Project

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  206
Posted : May 6, 2009 10:37
Quote:

On 2009-05-05 17:58, Spindrift wrote:
Quote:

On 2009-05-05 13:14, enichkin wrote:
If you can't hear/feel the difference between [320 units of information per second] and [1411 units of information per second] then you are able to perceive maximum 1/4 of music. This is obvious.



By the same logic that dictates that if you can read a text file that has been zipped to 100KB from 1MB you are able to perceive 1000% of text information.



with the same logic people play 320 mp3 on dancefloor and feel no difference. no difference between headphones and monitors - this make sound. no difference between car and airplane and legs - this help to move etc. heresy.


1411 = 320 => NONSENSE = no sense           
(L)ayered
(I)ntelligence
(F)orming
(E)nergy
polly
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  203
Posted : May 6, 2009 11:11
Quote:

On 2009-05-06 10:37, enichkin wrote:

1411 = 320 => NONSENSE = no sense




thats not the point on this.
Offcourse there is difference on soundwave between these two formats but does it matter?
does it have any efects on result as listeners point of view?
can anyone tell a difference from big soundsystem?
I doubt

can you? and how you have come to this conclusion?           http://www.myspace.com/polly_potb
http://www.miazu-polly.com
http://www.sangomarecords.com
http://www.peopleofthebutterflies.org
enichkin
eniChkin Project

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  206
Posted : May 6, 2009 14:01
Quote:

On 2009-05-06 11:11, polly wrote:
Quote:

On 2009-05-06 10:37, enichkin wrote:

1411 = 320 => NONSENSE = no sense




thats not the point on this.
Offcourse there is difference on soundwave between these two formats but does it matter?
does it have any efects on result as listeners point of view?
can anyone tell a difference from big soundsystem?
I doubt

can you? and how you have come to this conclusion?



i heard-played on different sound systems and different soundsystems make the same source song sound different. on one system u can experience the same sound out of mp3 and wave, on other system you would say that system is shit but the reason will be in music source. i played mp3 320 on 40 kwt on turbosound system and on 15 kwt or function one soundsystem. turbosound was ok about mp3, but not function one even on 15 kwt.

anyway i advice people to start asking themselves why they can't hear the obvious difference, and stop asking if this difference exist.

out of this topic
have fun
booom
          
(L)ayered
(I)ntelligence
(F)orming
(E)nergy
polly
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  203
Posted : May 6, 2009 14:47
cool

these kind of posts i want to read about this subject.
This summer I have many oportunities to test this with lots of different soundsystems...
lets see if I can get same kind of results           http://www.myspace.com/polly_potb
http://www.miazu-polly.com
http://www.sangomarecords.com
http://www.peopleofthebutterflies.org
Trance Forum  Forum  DJing - 320 vs. wav
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