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"writing music" will it get easier?
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Mar 1, 2011 19:20
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And especially on mastering. Really loud masters make your ears grow tired and that is especially why we should relax with the loudness. Think about the ear fatigue you get after 1 hour of listening to over compressed music in your studio. Now multiply this times 10 for when you are in front of a massive PA and listen to music for 12+ hours.
There is a gain knob on the mixer and there is a reason PAs are really big fucken speakers, because they go really loud!
Peace out.
 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 1, 2011 20:49
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imo it s all about practice and inspiration.you listen music that guys have maybe more than 300 tracks behind them (and it s not that much for a electronic producer).the more you make tracks the more easy it gets when inspiration strike.
imo today lof of new producer seems to spend to much time on production insteed of developing their musical skill with making lot of tracks,if you dont care at all about production you might finish tracks easier and make better music at same time,music is the priority . |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Mar 1, 2011 22:08
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Many people make dance tracks, few make real music pieces. |
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Electricpollution-Records
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
57
Posted : Mar 2, 2011 01:07
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On 2011-03-01 19:20, disco hooligans wrote:
And especially on mastering. Really loud masters make your ears grow tired and that is especially why we should relax with the loudness. Think about the ear fatigue you get after 1 hour of listening to over compressed music in your studio. Now multiply this times 10 for when you are in front of a massive PA and listen to music for 12+ hours.
There is a gain knob on the mixer and there is a reason PAs are really big fucken speakers, because they go really loud!
Peace out.
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+1
But getting this message across is real hard.
Also i wonder why this is, cause we all know it, or many people even mastering engineers, Its seems that the demand for over compressed and ultra maximized tracks are very high.
If we could only pull back just a tiny bit it would do all the difference.
But its just like in a conversation, the people that shout the loudest will get most attention, even if the ones talking at moderate volume has some very interesting and important things to say
Dirty Electricity
www.electricpollution.se |
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Locrian
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
24
Posted : Mar 2, 2011 02:39
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While something of a beginner myself I am still able to watch my progres through the last years and see how I have improved. And from my own studies I can draw some other conclusions as well.
In the long run, making good music and producing good sounding records is hard work. It takes a lot of time even for the best to finish an album.
I often look at my own greatest heroes, within electronic music, Infected Mushroom and marvel at the imagination and musicality of their tracks as well as their great mixes and usually really good sound. But both Dudev and Erez got where they are trough hard work.
Talent of course figures in but most great musicans and producers aren't Mozarts or Bachs, they're quite regular people who worked hard to master their craft.
Some things get easier with time, most things actually. The better you get at programming synths and effects the faster and better they get. Musicality also gets better. I shudder when I listen to some really early stuff I worked on, before I had even the first idea of how music works. Now I can write a decent progression or melody in any key without breaking a sweat. But that's decent, getting a good melody, groove, chord progression, arrangement etc still takes a long time and lots of effort. For every good one I make I probably do at least 50 bad ones.
Studying helps a lot. All from musical theory and harmony to the science of sound, human hearing and interpretation can all help make things easier and better if you find ways to use that knowledge.
Then of course there is practice and experimentation. Wheter it's just sitting for some hours brainstorming ideas or tying to perfect drums sounds it all helps a lot.
In short. While one gets better and some things get easier with time there's no real end to the journey. When one gets good at one thing that just frees up time and energy for getting other stuff better. Music like all things one does can always be done better and that requires hard work. If one just desires the okay or the decent one can of course get there eventually and stagnate but if one strives for the best of one's ability one will always have to work hard.
http://soundcloud.com/locrian/tracks |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 2, 2011 03:38
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Quote:
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On 2011-03-02 01:07, Electricpollution-Records wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-03-01 19:20, disco hooligans wrote:
And especially on mastering. Really loud masters make your ears grow tired and that is especially why we should relax with the loudness. Think about the ear fatigue you get after 1 hour of listening to over compressed music in your studio. Now multiply this times 10 for when you are in front of a massive PA and listen to music for 12+ hours.
There is a gain knob on the mixer and there is a reason PAs are really big fucken speakers, because they go really loud!
Peace out.
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+1
But getting this message across is real hard.
Also i wonder why this is, cause we all know it, or many people even mastering engineers, Its seems that the demand for over compressed and ultra maximized tracks are very high.
If we could only pull back just a tiny bit it would do all the difference.
But its just like in a conversation, the people that shout the loudest will get most attention, even if the ones talking at moderate volume has some very interesting and important things to say
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lot of loud tracks have no lowend but we listen on monitors, we are just a few pourcents of the listeners that will hear this , the music is clearly not mixed for listening on monitors, we are a very small minority ,also small crappy speakers you find everywhere today are not good to translate dynamics so for the majority of ppl louder mean better , i guess thats why it get louder and louder. (- 12 rms would be fine to me ,dont want to say loud is great i m trying to understand why it get louder) |
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
454
Posted : Mar 2, 2011 05:42
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If you master for a client and that client wants it louder well then....
If somebody pays money for a service they are in control in the end. Only thing the engineer can do is to make it sound as nice as possible and try to explain to said client the unfortunate side effects of chopping waves. I myself am quite fond of loud as long as it sounds good  But it´s a constant compromise. Some mixes just sound more full from the get go and hence do not need to be slammed hard.
Back on topic: Nothing really beats a LOT of time doing both wrong and right things before everything clicks into place (as evidenced from a lot of music i hear, it just never clicks for some) As it is now making music is pretty easy but making well sounding good music.....Now there´s a challenge (and since everybody has their own opinion on that, a totally subjective thing)
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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elastic_plastic
Re-Boot
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1612
Posted : Mar 2, 2011 10:58
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i havent really tried wrting music... but all i can tell u is practice will u make u perfect  |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Mar 10, 2011 06:13
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I struggle to finish tracks - I always have, although I am not so bad as I was.
So I can't really offer advice outside of observing the points where I have been more productive.
I'm always more productive when I have a set plan of what I'm trying to do, rather than just fire up the sequencer.
I am most productive when I write down what I'm trying to do, or force myself to come up with ideas away from the sequencer.
Basically, when I finish a tune, I found I've spent surprisingly little time in comparison to the tunes I don't finish in front of the sequencer.
Knowing the kit and the tech ... yes, sure, this all helps to make things quicker and less of a grind.
But IMO, the biggest grind is sitting there struggling like fuck to improvise something brilliant and perfect, when perhaps a more conscious approach would be more productive.
Of course, then I start stuggling with not knowing what to do with the tune - but when I am not in front of the sequencer there is nothing else to fuck around with - I've already decided to 'do music' and have nowhere left to hide ...
Anyhow, as I say, I still struggle like a bastard to finish ... but stepping back from the computer has helped if not solved this problem.
Currently I'm really struggling not for ideas but refreshingly, technically - I'm pushing the boat out and trying to go in different directions to the familiar. Noiw I'm not short on inspiration, but everything takes a lot longer as I have no sounds 'to hand'. :/
.
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 10, 2011 15:08
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one of the problem is looking to get everyhting perfect when it s not possible.accepting there is always compromise with production is not easy sometimes but it can t be perfect it s not the priority when making music imo.
when i make music with someone else i have the feeling we bash the work.. but in fact taking care about every single detail is almost useless ,cause first our hearing is really effective just for few minutes when we start making music, mean after 30 minutes our ears are not fresh enought for very little details and you can make things sound worst insteed ... even in the good produced stuff you listen to it 30 times you will hear lot of small details that are far to be perfect anyway . |
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
120
Posts :
1703
Posted : Mar 10, 2011 15:14
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my biggest problem is the structure...
lets say i have some nice ideas, i start with those.
i have a big lead, some sounds etc...
i place them, an build the track up around those...
some new ideas pops and i try/error those.
somehow this method takes so much time and dont works well/fast most of the time. i do not get the desired 7 minutes, because extending makes the track boring etc...
do you have any idea?
cheers
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 10, 2011 15:25
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imo it s practice there, experience + the state you are in , it can hapen we have nothing to give and share into our music ,it can take hours for nothing or for crap stuff.
when i have lot of creative energy everyhting flow very easily , when i dont have i don t even bother making music, it s a lot about state and energies , maybe not for you i dont know but it could be this.
my experience is that we need to give a lot to make good tunes,well structured, intelligent flow... and when we don t have this energy, the music is more empty or it can lead to no where. |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 11, 2011 22:38
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Quote:
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On 2011-03-10 15:14, orgytime wrote:
my biggest problem is the structure...
lets say i have some nice ideas, i start with those.
i have a big lead, some sounds etc...
i place them, an build the track up around those...
some new ideas pops and i try/error those.
somehow this method takes so much time and dont works well/fast most of the time. i do not get the desired 7 minutes, because extending makes the track boring etc...
do you have any idea?
cheers
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Do you try to write "musically" doing things like call and response, etc? Either way you answer that, try doing it the opposite way and seeing what the result is. Even if you can't get a whole idea out of it, take some ideas that did work and try to apply them.
If your arrangement is what hinders you, try writing longer sequences that use modulation/record knob movements, then layer those.
Try writing something other than psytrance for a while if you haven't. I get so many ideas from other styles I write and it helps to keep things fresh. http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Mar 11, 2011 23:21
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- you should practice every day or if time does not allow, as often as you can.
- with enough practice you will reach the point where you are able to do a complete alpha-version of a track from scratch at just one studio-session (this is like 4-8 hours).
- this alpha-version includes a complete arrangement of full-track lengh, all main-elements, structure alpha-versions of breaks and most important the core-idea of the track.
- the key to do this is to get the ability to play our studio like a musician playing on his instrument and not like a rocket-scientist programming a snaredrum for 3 hours. this can from my opinion only be achieved if you know your studio very well and know how to put down this sound which comes to your head without getting stuck into details. this is why daily practice is key.
- after some time you have a collection of a lot "alpha-versions" and then you decide which ones you want to finish taking care about all the details within the project. this can take days offcourse, but you can be absolutely relaxed and chillout doing this because all important elements and arrangement is allready done!
- trying a way to create a track for a long time can be a huge success and can lead to masterpieces but in my deepest opinion the music is better when you can just flow out core idea of your track from your mind into the machines realy quik. using longer time without a finished arrangement makes it realy hard to keep the core-idea of the track without getting irritated and end up with a complete different mood as you had begun.
for first practice i recommend you:
- try to drop one finished arrangement in one session no matter how bad or good the track may sound like. it will get better session after session.
- give a shit on stiles. produce psy, trance, chillout, minimal, pop whatever you like. does not matter. your mood is different every day! there will be enough sessions where your mood is absolutly great for what you seek. rest is training.
- if you feel like you are not in the mood for making music today this mostly means that you are trying to programm something which is NOT in your mind, trying to copycat something which you think you want it but does not comes out of YOURSELF. keep contact to your mood, just let it out. this is where great tracks are born. rest is training.
good luck!
edit: i used this concept with great success lately, from my experience it was a mindblowing step forward. i highly recommend to try out producing this way.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Mar 12, 2011 22:42
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I write tons of stuff and finish like 1-2% of that
I learned good methods of more organized people, like my brother and a friend, So now days i can come back to old projects and know how to solve them better...
For example i learned that using the start of the arrangement as a tool box for loops and lines. So i start with making a loop of 8-16 bars for example, of course this depends on the music.
Then when having enough material i leave it all in the beginning and start to arrange like 2min in the arrangement view. So i never have to move stuff forward and get confused cause its all a clean road forward.
Before i used to move everything forward and after a while pick stuff from the initial sequence and get lost. So this is one method i found working very well. And i can easily go back a listen to the original idea, and maybe that first sequence is the main body so i know what i have to work to.
Also i am working in lots of programs nowdays and its much more inspiring, Still cubase is my favorite for sequencing and audio-editing. But Ableton, Reason and FL studio is good for different things.
And like Speakafreak i understood that a more conscious approach is often very good, like the latest track i am working on i have a structure and its so helpful and damn what small breaks and fills can make a huge different in flow and drive...
And Mantik - Great advice i will follow them.
Right now i am working on a track which i found great flow in, so i must go now and make the arrangement. But i am following a structure which is very good.
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