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Working with wavs...
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infectedsilence
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
43
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 16:46:34
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Hello everybody...first of all sorry for bad english!!'m greek  ..i'm interesting in dark psytrance production in forest/mystic/atmospheric style (atriohm,derango..blah blah) but i didnt made anything similar yet  ...
i'm new in psytrance production and i had complete some tracks working with FL studio & nuendo and now i'm working only with nuendo and a lot of vsts.the previous tracks i was working on i've made them completely with all vsts running (open) and live programming/editing & writting.but it was way to difficult to work like this because of cpu performance!!after some conversations with people that produces psytrance they told me that its far better for the pc and me  to work with wavs...so i need to run my vsts,make the sounds i like,add the FXs,EQs,reverbs,compressors,e.t.c and then export them to wavs that i will import again and work with them for the track composition.and thats what i'm doing the last days in nuendo.my problem is that the sounds that i export to wavs and needed to be repeated in the track (not kick,snare,hats e.t.c) like atmospheres, have a noticeable repeatance if their put in a continuous wav1/wav1/wav1...i know it may sound stupid but how did you manage that?i mean you export long wavs like 3 minutes atmosphere and then adjust the volume in any part of the track that you want to be heard or you work with smaller parts like 10 secs?
sorry if i confuse with all that but i must learn how the arrangement with wavs is working better...
also if you know any tutorial for organised and managage of wavs arrangement will be great!!!
thanx for your attention & keep the psy spirit alive!
i'm waiting your comments...
  When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace...
-Jimi Hendrix- |
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Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
166
Posts :
713
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 17:10
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Easy and effective.
Let say you've written a 32 bar pad with MIDI.
Select the MIDI part and hit P so it's selected, then solo that clip. Then simply goto File - Export.
On the Export menu, make sure that To Pool and New Audio Track are selected, that way as soon as it's finished exporting it'll be brought back into your project on its own track. Make sure to mute your MIDI part once this is done! It's also a good idea to bounce down to 24 bit.
I normally export without any inserts on the mixer, panner at 0 and the fader at 0 and then do all the work on the audio part.
You'll also notice you have a lot more control over the editing of your new WAV clip. You can easily chop, reverse and process different parts.
Hope this helps. |
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Radioactive.Cake
Radioactive Cake
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
85
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 17:38
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i hope i got the problem right correct me please if not!!!
the arrangement with waves is nearly the same as with vst event (or midi events or packages or midi trigger or whatever you call them).
easiest example, you create one short fx, you export it and reimport (i guess nuendo can do it in one way) and then set it on the same position as the vst event was but on an audio track...(clear! isn't it ?)
if the sound is more an atmosphere, you can do it the same way, you export the sound (no matter the lenght) and put it to the position you want...and if you want so you can delete the midi tracks after that.
really sorry if that's not what you'd like to know... tell me if so !!!
Radioactive.Cake - intelligent dark minimal psygressive
http://www.glitchytonicrecords.com
Zeitgeist - Munstrous - Dark Passenger |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 19:10
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I think the problem you are having is that your sound "tail" gets cut off.
When you export your MIDI into audio, make sure to extend the loop to include any fading delays or reverb that plays after the MIDI part.
You then export this audio and duplicate it. The second part you drag back over the tail of the previous audio so that the main part it playing in time where it's supposed to.
You should have an overlap of the audio parts at this time. Select one of the audio parts and press "x" on your keyboard. This will open the crossfade function. Adjust the crossfade function so that the tail plays with the next part of the audio.
This will mix the tail and the next part of the audio together so that it sounds natural going into the copied part.
Hope thats what you were talking about.
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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infectedsilence
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
43
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 20:14
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Thanx a lot guys for your directions...
to Radioactive.Cake & Chemogen ...
I know how to export and that the arrangement its the same like vsts.the first things i've learn for working with waves.whatever thanx alot for the info guys!!
psylevation, you got it!!
this was a think that i didnt know and i was totaly forget about crossfading ..hehe..thnx alot my friend i'll try it and hope it works!!
i think my main problem is about organising the compose of a track..
are you working with 2 projects open?
like one for sound designing and then export the waves and import them in the other project that you arrange them?because now i work for the sounds and export/import them as i compose the whole track in one project..is that a little chaotic?
again sorry for my english
...and thnx alot for the respones!!!
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Radioactive.Cake
Radioactive Cake
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
85
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 20:18
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in my mind it's more chaotic to work with two projects open and i guess it would use more cpu perfomance...doing this in one instance does the trick very well ! i'd say it's the only way two hold a good working flow
one other thing is that you have to sync the two projects in some cases...imagine you would like to create an arp or any sequence, you need to have it in your host project !
Radioactive.Cake - intelligent dark minimal psygressive
http://www.glitchytonicrecords.com
Zeitgeist - Munstrous - Dark Passenger |
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
537
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 22:14
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FL is a nice daw i love it but its kinda chaotic, not becuase of the waves, i just dont like the patten thing.
As cake said, do it in one project. In FL is a breeze to render and edit audio. Just open Edson, put in record mode, ``record whats playing``. If you have a pattern of midi notes, just hit the play button, and the edson will automaticaly record what is playing on your pattern to him. Now you did that you have the wav file into edson, you can do whatever you want with it before sending it to the playlist, or just delete it if you didnt like the sample!
fd
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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infectedsilence
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
43
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 22:22
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On 2009-08-31 22:14, becktrank wrote:
FL is a nice daw i love it but its kinda chaotic, not becuase of the waves, i just dont like the patten thing.
As cake said, do it in one project. In FL is a breeze to render and edit audio. Just open Edson, put in record mode, ``record whats playing``. If you have a pattern of midi notes, just hit the play button, and the edson will automaticaly record what is playing on your pattern to him. Now you did that you have the wav file into edson, you can do whatever you want with it before sending it to the playlist, or just delete it if you didnt like the sample!
fd
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hmmmmm....yeah thats very gooooood method that i didnt imagine with edison..but now i'm working with nuendo because i've heard from most producers that steinberg's programms are far better in audio quality and wave editing..
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Radioactive.Cake
Radioactive Cake
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
85
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 22:29
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oh i know lots of people that studied at SAE and (not commenting what they make out of it but...) they're all telling me that today there is no more significant difference in the export quality and the resolution and stuff, between the "big players"
one factor could be the soundcard when you're recording or even the microphone when you're recording acoustic instruments...but the DAWs they seem to have the same standard nowadays !
Radioactive.Cake - intelligent dark minimal psygressive
http://www.glitchytonicrecords.com
Zeitgeist - Munstrous - Dark Passenger |
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Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 22:54
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i would agree with that...radioactive...its not like before...you dont have to export wav. except really for basslines if u have a really fucked up and processed bassline and it phases alot let say the first 4 bars are not phasing and the rest sounds like its not stable enough to be a repetitive bassline then you would export to wav so it stays the same over 32 bars perhaps.
other than that i dont see the reason to wav a lead...just synthesis it well and that it
saii.rave.ca |
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
537
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 23:10
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Quote:
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On 2009-08-31 22:22, infectedsilence wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-08-31 22:14, becktrank wrote:
FL is a nice daw i love it but its kinda chaotic, not becuase of the waves, i just dont like the patten thing.
As cake said, do it in one project. In FL is a breeze to render and edit audio. Just open Edson, put in record mode, ``record whats playing``. If you have a pattern of midi notes, just hit the play button, and the edson will automaticaly record what is playing on your pattern to him. Now you did that you have the wav file into edson, you can do whatever you want with it before sending it to the playlist, or just delete it if you didnt like the sample!
fd
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hmmmmm....yeah thats very gooooood method that i didnt imagine with edison..but now i'm working with nuendo because i've heard from most producers that steinberg's programms are far better in audio quality and wave editing..
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i m switching from fl to reaper because of the workflow. Fl was my first daw and i only knew its method of producing. But after i introduced to the reaper way (i dont know if it is the same as other daw`s, i think it s, tried cubase once but it crashed before let me do anything) i really dont want to use fl and its pattern related workflow anymore.
But, i dont think it is inferior in audio quality, and, I think Edson is brilliant, just put in record whats playing mode, and record the thing, do whatever you want with it, and go to the next. No need to render audio, first the data goes from midi into edson, in edson you can do whatever you want, and from edson to your playlist. If after you sended it from midi to edson, you dont liked the sample or changed your mind, just push delete.
Radioactive.Cake what do u think from sae? ``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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Radioactive.Cake
Radioactive Cake
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
85
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 23:20
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me i am event technician with a focus on audio...live mixing and things (conferences or concerts) and i know a lot of SAEs that want to do this, but because of less practice and live working experience and more studying they often don't get a chance to proof their knowledge.
but i'd say some of them are good engineers for the studio !
it is so that most of the jobs you get through connections and good critics when somebody tell somebody "this guy is pretty good" or so...but many SAEs don't have any critic (good or bad).
personally i don't have a problem with the students there !!!! i guess it's a good education but you also need practice to get jobs with this quality.
honestly i'd really like to know what those guys know about technique
Radioactive.Cake - intelligent dark minimal psygressive
http://www.glitchytonicrecords.com
Zeitgeist - Munstrous - Dark Passenger |
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infectedsilence
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
43
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 23:37
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Quote:
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On 2009-08-31 22:54, Saii wrote:
i would agree with that...radioactive...its not like before...you dont have to export wav. except really for basslines if u have a really fucked up and processed bassline and it phases alot let say the first 4 bars are not phasing and the rest sounds like its not stable enough to be a repetitive bassline then you would export to wav so it stays the same over 32 bars perhaps.
other than that i dont see the reason to wav a lead...just synthesis it well and that it
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hmmmm thats what i was doing in all my previous projects...working straight with the vsts running but how do you manage 20 vsts running together??the cpu commited suicide ...
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace...
-Jimi Hendrix- |
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Radioactive.Cake
Radioactive Cake
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
85
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 23:47
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i really like to render down my samples no because of getting the VSTs out but because i work with ableton live and there it makes sense to create audiosamples, because you can stretch, deform, reverse (and so on) your own samples and create nearly different whole new sounds of one sample. but when i have a sequence that i like to play in different ways, different triggers and notes, then i keep it because it's easier...
but i always save my presets so i can open up the device with that sound again !
Radioactive.Cake - intelligent dark minimal psygressive
http://www.glitchytonicrecords.com
Zeitgeist - Munstrous - Dark Passenger |
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Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Sep 1, 2009 00:19
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@infected Silence
buy a mac pro
@radioactive.cake
i use ableton live also and nothing else and i understand waht you mean to reverse and shit with the wav samples but then again you get more of a "live" feel if you follow the zen of ableotn live and just do everythin "live"
ie instead of cutting up a wav file and reversing in manual labor assign a knob to beat repeater or effectrix and do it "live" (even in the studio, the track feels more "alive" lol) sorry for the shit load of the word live. but i hope you get my point. u got to stop thinkin old school sometimes and use what tools there are out there today!
people who do this wav sampling shit are people who are just used to it from cubase and those DAWs that requires u to do this.
anyways that just my opinion.
peace
saii.rave.ca |
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