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work with monitors + recording
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 22, 2008 18:46
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now, here it comes. I've read about the "Break In" a bit. So, what do you do in break in:
Let's call the "color of the sound of the brand new monitors" by letter "A"
and the "desired sound after the break in" by "B".
you say: when I am buying monitors, I have "A".
I then make them work for sev. hours and suddenly get "B". So, the next week after the "break in" I already have "C" ?
How can one expect the monitors to be a REFERENCE POINT then ? i.e. "FIXED point" ?
Please explain...
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Glitch_CapeTown
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
952
Posted : Jun 22, 2008 22:51
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On 2008-06-22 00:37, Alex Roudos wrote:
qwerty, thank you for taking the time to reply.
But still, you didn't convince me about your original point of view.
I am very aware of the duties of a recording engineer, a mixing engineer and a mastering engineer. And i'm mostly aware of the NS-10s since i was working with them during the 90s. And yes, they were the industry standard for one reason only. Because they sounded like total shit. Which made them perfect for A/Bing on the big studio facilities of the time, simply because if the mix sounded right on them, it would sound great everywhere. But as technology advanced, the NS-10s lost their glorious place from a lot of studios.
Nowadays, high end monitors are more than enough for pro mixing and in some cases for mastering as well.
It would be insane and wouldn't make any sense at all if i for example should need an extra pair of monitors besides my K+H O300s only for recording my artists. In that respect what's the point on paying thousands of euros for monitors that will get only half the job done?
But i would gladly buy a pair of NS-10s for checking my mixes.
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xD hahaha i like the way u think, i hate the sound of the ns-10 
 [[[G|L|I|T|C|H]]]
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Glitch/26959170536?ref=ts
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/glitch-tales-from-the-script
http://www.ektoplazm.com/2011/glitch-higher-definition
http://soundcloud.com/user582143 |
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 00:04
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Quote:
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talking about the manufacturers... If I were a manufacturer, I'd say: throw'em down off 1-1.2 meters, and then, magically, the glue, drives etc, loosen up for everything, and don't forget to buy another pair in 1-2 years ;-)
IMHO, this "breaking into" is a literal BREAKING of the monitors. So, you will buy another one in no time.
Please show me ANY proof "broken" monitor sounds flatter or better, except the voodoo/mojo feeling of doing something mysterious.
I mean you put them into each other, some thing may not phase shift, and you get a nice resonance.... which simply increases the amplitude of the moving parts... and here we go: "broken" parts, torn membranes....
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 00:21
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Have you tried this?
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I am not against this idea, but I want to UNDERSTAND why it's good. hearing "I've done this thousands times" doesn't make me understand better, no offends, please.
In these things I've found NOT A SINGLE case where logic doesn't work.
I claim it maybe does something to the speaker, but I don't understand if it's good or bad. maybe it's a trick to make your speaker's life shorter.
At least you can't say I am a blind follower ;-)
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 01:22
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It makes sense to you, because you're simply fixed to this concept, and you don't question it. you either don't want to explain, or don't know how to explain. And I am strongly steering to the latter.
I said I don't understand this process and asked for a more detailed explanation.
Naturally, I am curious: I love to learn.
We're talking about polymers, wood, paper and metals. maybe some carbon fibers. and some other polymer fibers - the foams, etc.
each one of them has known, predictable reaction to sustained audio signal: ALL of these materials deform ("wear out") in time under the audio pressure. some even get microscopic tears and cracks. Some get weaker. Eventually you get amp., freq. and phase distortions at lower volumes.
This is when you throw the monitor, and go to another.
If we sum this all, following the "superposition" principle, if ALL materials wear out, we get that the less the monitor is used - the better for it 
So, any extreme over-work, etc. only causes some accelerated damage to the device.
This means after a "break into" the monitor will live 2 years, instead of 5-6 years. And you won't be able to sell it.
Let's talk cars:
If you hit the car at a wall, will it be "broken into" and ride better ?
I think NO.
But, as it appears a NEW engine of a car needs to run for some while at lower loads, so the parts of a new engine rub each other, and become more "fit" to each other. this is when the collection of details becomes 1 system, an engine. Earlier (60s-70s) you had to "pre-run" the engine by yourself (I didn't buy a new car yet, so maybe today it's not relevant) But, today the engine factory runs this "pre-run", so the engine of today's car doesn't need this.
Still, maybe some parts are a bit deformed and have slipped over the QA of the car factory, so 1-2 weeks I'd not drive a shiny new car at max-speed.
This is a physical explanation I CAN accept.
But, I don't see any logic of this in the speakers: you offer me to OVERLOAD the system in order to lead into a steady state.
You insist it is steady, and that this makes them better.
So, accept my explanation, or explain yourself.
your ball, sir qwerty.
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 01:28
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after you've showered, come back.... |
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 02:18
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Some say that monitors sound better after a certain "breaking in" time. But only some. From all the threads i have read from pro people in less than 1% of them the "breaking in" was mentioned.
And when "breaking in" is required then usually the time needed is 200-300 hours. From what i've read "breaking in" is essential for electrostatic speakers and headphones, which makes sense to me due to their technology, but i have no scientific idea what exactly it does and how. I repeat that this is what i've read over the years, and frankly i don't give a flying fuck about it.
What i can say from my personal experience is that my 0300s sound no different at all than the very first time i plugged them in 8 months ago.
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 02:23
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hmmm, qwerty, let's look at the positive side of this thread: at least you don't pretend to be a "wonderful person".
----------- start of lecture --------------
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My advice would be to stop smoking weed and stop bunking your physics classes
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I'm not sure I want to take any advice from somebody who can't get his tongue to math.
but knows such advanced words as "twit".
come on, throw a Fourier/Laplace transforms or
multi-dimentional integrals, or a PDE problems.
I'll chew them up.
but you choose this pseudo aggressive technique to avoid simple but definitive answers.
It actually may impress a teenager... a teenager girl. well, not an israeli girl.
I am desperately trying to squeeze some knowledge out of you, and I must admit - you're a tough nut.
I hope not an empty one, but tough.
So, come one pull yourself together and BE NICE, answer to the point or shut up.
Some say "wisdom comes with age".
Man, usually AGE COMES ALONE, wake up.
It is 2:17 AM ( 1:17 in you still United Kingdom), if you're such a good audio engineer, WTF are you doing in front of a computer ? I know UK working hours end at 17:30. wife, kids, life ? heard of those ?
As you can see, I also know how to insult...don't enjoy this though.
----------- end of lecture --------------
I don't think it's a conspiracy, but until proven otherwise, to "break in" the monitor for 20 hours sounds like a waste of 20 hours, cupping glasses for a corpse.
So, I am still curious about it. All I wanted is to hear what good does it make. I've tried to show you it doesn't make any good.
You didn't say anything relevant to contradict, or explain where I am principally wrong.
well, except calling names, and repeating the already heard record.
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 02:35
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qwerty, another good thing - the link to the book.
I'll probably buy it. 67$, second edition, in the USA amazon.
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 02:37
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twit, twat, shmat, whatever.
It is so annoying to communicate in text only
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 02:49
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Learn what exactly qwerty?
How to behave on them?
Or
Not to believe what others write like Bob Katz for example and numerous others on the same level with him but in different areas of expertise?
And as to your last question.....
No, i have never stepped foot in a commercial studio facility nor i have ever spoken to any engineer of any kind. For 18 years that i'm into music, i am always inside my little cave 100 meters deep down.
Satisfied?
By the way, your references regarding your points prove to me that either you work for SSL or Yamaha or both or you are affiliated with them or you simply don't know or bother to really search in the INTERNET.
Byeeeeeeeeeeee
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 03:01
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Trolls...
the more you feed'em the bigger they grow....
Alex, where are you from ?
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 14:57
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the last self-quote is not in this thread.
where have you brought it from ?
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Nemesys
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
65
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 20:19
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out of nowhere ..
Ive never heard producers using one pair for tracking & other for mixing .. that even dosent make sense to me .. but who knows .. maybe there are ..
99% of the time i use my NS10's just to check Vocals or guitars tracks as NS10's are amazingly open for that.. so as most producers i know do as well..
the rest is up to the Twins.
NS10's magic comes to life only paird with a good amp, what most people dont see when they looking on pictures of studios is the amp hidden somewehere... which is (i belive) 80% of NS10's sound.
these speakers without a good amp are useless, plastic.
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jun 23, 2008 20:48
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On 2008-06-23 20:33, qwerty wrote:
it is becoming quite clear that their is a real case of tunnel vision developing here.
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qwerty = psytracked?
UnderTow |
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