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why some dark labels and artist use satanic iconography??
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
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1660
Posted : May 21, 2008 11:01
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On 2008-05-21 10:13, Psytracked wrote:
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On 2008-05-21 09:38, Yuli wrote:
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On 2008-05-21 09:26, Psytracked wrote:
pmsl YOU THINK MUSIC IS ART.
I DON'T
can you handle that? that not everyone looks at the world in the same light as you? Why do you state it like its a fact when it's actually just an opinion?
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Well that explains a lot about yourself.
For ppl like you music is a fART - and actually in some cases it sounds like that.
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Yuli you haven't even met me, why are you pretending to know what music I am into?
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Well read your answer about art again, and tell me.. if it's not art it must be fart..
  A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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NIKTHEQUICK
Started Topics :
8
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422
Posted : May 21, 2008 11:10
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wow...some war has been going on here....
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On 2008-05-21 10:03, mk47 wrote:
also this one , some might consider satanic? .. lol
http://212.227.206.198/cgi-bin/zoom.cgi?ino1cd006_b.jpg:CDs/ino/ino1cd006.html:;
...tracks which make your mind fly in the fantastic and weird soundscapes of Horror Place. A Place where everyone feels himself small, naked and unprotected in front of power of the nature and old pagan myths. But don't be scared! Remember it's just in your head!...His innovative music shows a new approach to the content of psy-parties and is perfect for deep night hours.
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thank you mk for the xplanation.....whats written in italic i suppose is the message that horror place/zik/matutero/adrenal glands wrote to justify the (awful imho) cover....
it is the same reasoning that people like me and jedi knight gave 10 pages ago....prob people here like to argue (and as it is a forum....sometimes thats the point).....but come on....respect each other point of view...and read the topic!!!
again to summarize:
-music as a tool not only for party but for tripping (mind tripping no rugs involved...) is used by different people in different forms...some like to face moments where ego losses etc make you feel fearful, unsecure.....this is the point!...so that when you manage to overcome these feelings (deep and spiritual if you believe in them), you empower yourself....not the ego but the soul....purified from the dark influences!
- others think all these concepts is bullshit and just cant wait for the night to be over and put on sunglasses, smile, dance and enjoy the music, feeling the love happines which indeed floods the dancefloor at most parties...
respect each others point of view....
dark iconography (as the msg by mk shows) appeals to the first kind.....
btw too many dumb points tho:
-dark iconography to attract kids purchasing?.....how many cds get sold of this genre....come on...wake up...no marketing (also cos zik needs no presentation....)!
-wizzy noise cover is def worse than all evil colours...appeals to materialistic cheezy iconography...the worst for the world and for this scene!!....please detox after releasing such a cover under your label i would hide under a bed...! no disrespect...
bholenath
Posted by : Spasm
""""Therefore the crappy satan covers fits as a glove the sound inside.
Its like a warning... beware no music here!! that's for pompous pricks!!
at last everyone agrees that satanic iconography sucks balls,
next""""
man you never loose the occasion to prove how close minded you are....(and stupid?!)
who is the pompuos prick here??....someone listening to music?...
poor you....
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Spasm
Started Topics :
3
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358
Posted : May 21, 2008 11:18
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On 2008-05-21 09:29, Psytracked wrote:
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On 2008-05-21 02:40, Spasm wrote:
at last everyone agrees that satanic iconography sucks balls, ...
next
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I appreciate english may not be your first language but if you re-read the thread I think you'll find that thats not how it went.
But who are we kidding.....you just want the world to fit around your concepts and ideologies......that way you can continue to live in the dark.
peace be with you
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irony and sarcasm |
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Spasm
Started Topics :
3
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358
Posted : May 21, 2008 11:27
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On 2008-05-21 11:10, NIKTHEQUICK wrote:
man you never loose the occasion to prove how close minded you are....(and stupid?!)
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just like you never loose the ocasion to show your weakness and ofend others then give plausible arguments.
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CRX(HSS Records)
IsraTrance Full Member
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2707
Posted : May 21, 2008 11:34
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Shiva and Ganesh are also not-christian entities
Respect to the teaching offcourse-I dont want to be offensiveto some one,its a state of mind) but I haven't seen anyone complaining about it
Helicon Sounds Music
www.hssr.gr |
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Spasm
Started Topics :
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358
Posted : May 21, 2008 11:52
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"YOU THINK MUSIC IS ART.
I DON'T "
Music is an art form in which the medium is sound. Common elements of music are pitch (which governs melody and harmony), rhythm (and its associated concepts tempo, meter, and articulation), dynamics, and the sonic qualities of timbre and texture. The word derives from Greek (mousike), "(art) of the Muses".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music
This is comon knowledge, in every encyclodepia or dictionary.
But then you say:
"...you just want the world to fit around your concepts and ideologies......that way you can continue to live in the dark."
o the irony
that's reeeeally a great act of contriction there my friend, it's amusing the way you talk about yourself when adressing others. |
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pinkE
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
441
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406
Posted : May 21, 2008 12:32
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Ok, I've passed through this thread and it is very interesting actually, I myself tend to agree with both arguments.
On one hands - for me symbols and signs do have significance. Otherwise all of you who have tattoos for example would just doodle some shit and not think about it before. I think what is very apparent here is a lack of meaning in the cover by many artists in the Trance scene (from all genres!). There were given some examples of metal bands which I also think could not be compared here since this scene is much more psychedelic and not violent in it's origins, moreover many metal bands use these symbols as criticism. The problem is that Trance in it's essence basically has no actual meaning that artists want to pass through in the music, without lyrics the person who hears the music (which is art in any way you look at it) can put his own interpretations to the music, which is also the advantage of the music. However throwing images with no actual thought behind it is definitely not a "dark psy" phenomena and I find a lot of the so called hippies in the Trance scenes using the slogans of PLUR and the Ohm (which most don’t even know the meaning) Boom Shiva or TAZ and so on. This scene is all about symbolism and ppl who claim to know what is the original meaning or the "right" meaning of symbols. In fact in these postmodern times does it matter? Does anything has its original meaning? Does anyone knows the original meanings? Does anybody cares?
In some aspects and for some ppl it does, but again it is very subjective imo. I have recently encounter a swastika sign on a psy trance compilation which really disturbed me due to my family history (being Israeli and Jewish and all my family murdered in the Holocaust) therefore I was pretty annoyed by it, obviously the artists wanted to use the initial meaning of the sign, so which meaning do ppl remember these days when they see this sign? The old eastern one or the Nazi one? That is exactly the thing with symbols and cover art - it doesn’t come with an explanation of your intentions so ppl can take it where ever they want. I have no problems with ppl using signs as part of a criticism or some sort of a saying regarding our reality but since this music has no lyrics and usually no criticism or any thoughts or point at all behind it this is kinda out of line.
I personally find art covers such as these – http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/msh/msh1cd006.html
(ok so it follows the name of the album, which in itself is pathetic IMO give me a F**ing break) offensive just as well, females being posed in a sexually/erotic way, which for me has nothing to do with the music or the Trance scene. For me objectifying women in this scene means that one of the only places where I feel safe and I can be, dress, consume or act as I want is diminishing. However this has been totally devalued here since ppl see this as a legitimate way (from the legitimate it has become in the mainstream industry) of trying to appeal more crowds to buy the cd since seeing a woman’s boobs and thong obviously makes more ppl buy this cd…
Symbols, signs, music, lyrics and art all have impact on us, weather it is conscious or unconscious, otherwise why use this sign and not another? Why call you in a specific name and not just human number 28312496?
The thing is artists and organizers who are using symbols and slogans which they definitely don’t believe or even know some of their meaning is just as bad and definitely not only a Darkpsy phenomena. So again, I personally don’t see the connection, but no one has the authority or ownership of the meanings and significance of symbols and the supposedly true and right way – there is no such thing. I do however feel that there is a blaming point towards Darkpsy from many ppl, and I think some forget that many people in the Trance scene came from Metal/Gothic/Industrial orientated music, infact Avi Nissim and Lior Perlamoter (Astral Projection) were residents at the Penguin club (one of the first clubs to play Punk/Dark wave/Gothic music which was a huge hit in the 80’s) in Israel in fact their first concert was there, California Sunshine as well and many others who came from really darkish roots. Some people like to combine their musical origins in Trance and I find no harm in it on the contrary it creates much more diversity and interest in the Trance genre. I think like reality nothing is consisted out of only Light/ Bright/ happy just like Yin and Yang, the Black comes with the white to complete the full picture of reality… and lets not forget all the grey areas J
So in short, there is room for everyone and everything in the Trance scene, and actually some of the PLUR actually says to Respect and Understand the other, so having said that – there is no person who has more or less legitimacy or privilege to be part of this community.
OK, and back to the cover, I personally like some of the Darkpsy but as all other genres it has good part and shitty parts so I wouldn’t generalize, all genres have good aspects and bad but the damage in your eyes is totally subjective (like I get annoyed by Swastika and probably Christians from Europe wouldn’t even notice it) and the reasons are rooted in each of our histories and personal knowledge. Therefore I do understand why these signs can be offensive to some and meaningless to others.
IMO though the dark music in Trance definitely doesn’t need symbols such as these to market their music, I think in the end it’s the music that counts, so if it’s shit it’s shit, if not then it’s not (try to listen to Xenomorph’s new album “Demagoguery of The Obscurants”, the only political agenda album this year and the cover as well, also the Free Tibet compilation which should be noted). However since this genre (Trance) is not known for it’s strong political or some sort of an agenda to pass through the music I wonder if there is any point of looking for the meanings in the covers as well.
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Delusional Trippy voyage to space madness
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http://www.106fm.co.il/schedule/#program/50/
LETS GET DIG |
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mk47
Inactive User
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Posted : May 21, 2008 12:38
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i request the topic starter for links .. or STFU 
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Yuli
Retired
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Posted : May 21, 2008 12:43
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@ pinkE
Good post I agree with it.
Actually as for me there is no bashing of dark psy here, since the thread is about satanic iconography, I guess HOMmega is not involved.. But as I said before, I find the semi porno covers as disturbing, altho usage of evil signs personally for me more irritating since I do believe that some things better be left alone, especially if the thing is done for fun of it. Half naked females I can live with hehe... But must agree that the connection between that juicy cover you have posted the link for, and the actual trance is little hard to get.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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thegooddale
IsraTrance Junior Member
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626
Posted : May 22, 2008 00:28
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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Posted : May 22, 2008 02:03
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 22, 2008 04:48
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yes i wasnt bashing dark there is good dark.
some pages ago i asked again if more hard dance/gabber influenced dark was the one using this hellish iconography. Any clue?
I agree psychedelic art, can be twisted. like some of those pics in goddale post but what do you think of this?
http://www.twistedmindsrecords.com/
its mexican label and in general here in mexico all dark music is charged with this kind of iconography. there is also a series of parties each one with the name of sins.
I just dont get it. It scares girls, and parties with out girls are no fun, but maybe they know it, they are just to gay and dont want girls in the parties. jajajaja
Seriusly people, if you want this image to your scene ok, but for some people it just make avoid albums and parties with those images. |
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lord_bhairava
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271
Posted : May 22, 2008 04:59
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because the human live eternaly in a dualistic form of life, black and white, happyness-sadness, good-evil, the duality causes bondage, well i think the "darkpsy" is make with a bass in an tone who brain consider is black because of that the "psytrancers" who live eternaly in duality call it "dark" like gothic metal or something, i think parasense is one of the fathers of that "dark" but i hear his music and i dont feel dark i feel a twist of sentiments with a powerfull bassline "n_n" |
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gazella
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Posted : May 22, 2008 06:03
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 22, 2008 07:07
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this topic is a mess
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