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Trance Forum » » Forum  Production & Music Making - why psytrance has become SHIT
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why psytrance has become SHIT

splikz


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  287
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 01:45
Quote:

On 2013-06-13 16:15, Colin OOOD wrote:
If Psytrance has become shit it is at least partly because promoters of many larger events have their own agendas (booking friends and acts associated with the labels many of them run) and are therefore reluctant to make bookings which don't directly benefit them in some way, and who tend to book acts that don't stray away from the formulas which define particular sub-genres, leading people to believe that what they see at festivals is the best the scene has to offer when this is far from the case. This encourages artists to stick to the established - tired, even - formulas in the hope of getting booked, leading to a lack of diversity and innovation in the scene as a whole. IMO/IME.



this
it's basically a monopoly, where there's a few lucky people that participate in it.

and most of those that pay for tickets, think that bigger the event, the better....
but there's plenty of good little parties.

the same is happening in the commercial dance music. one american company did the ultimate greed move. it acquired beatport and 75% of a dutch event promotion company. now they are controlling the tops, the charts, as well as some of most popular dance events in the world.... so one of their friends & associated producers do a track, and it goes to number 1 or top 10 right away.
Babube
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  199
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 03:43

I think there´s no doubt that overall quality has go downwards (besides some artists) maybe because a trend started for psytrance producing and event organizers in the 2000s.
Just listen to synth melodies from goa tracks and compare to almost all of nowadays. They could create sound as a synesthesia so you could close your eyes and imagine things as fractals and traveling through the universe. That´s the real psychedelic concept.
Now there are fewer musics and more technicians and it is a much more amphetamine oriented sound focused only on quality provided by the newer and newer machines.
Of course there are still artists breaking the rules like Sensient or Furious/Crazy astronaut a few years ago, but they don´t get enough credit for what they did and are seen with prejudice by many people, remaining only for a niche.

I think today there´s a minimal trend in all arts that is affecting the creative power by suggesting shortcuts for obtaining results and a mind opening is needed, a kind of revolution with the same interest as when this scene begun.           Computer games don't affect kids - I mean, if Pacman affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. :D :D
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 03:49
Quote:

On 2013-06-21 03:43, Babube wrote:



I think today there´s a minimal trend in all arts that is affecting the creative power by suggesting shortcuts for obtaining results and a mind opening is needed, a kind of revolution with the same interest as when this scene begun.




+1

maybe we need to go back to the "good" roots, remember what this is all about in the first place and stick to it. Rather then fix a bad boat, make one best suited for the trip we have in mind and just have faith that the new winds will lead us to new unseen territories.
bukboy
Hyperboreans

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  803
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 10:22
babube - the producers are creating the bare minimum passable standard. There are no standards so the bottom is the limit.

Any marketer will tell you that their job is to optimize returns by bringing the product to a market at the quality and price level the market is willing to pay.

in the case of trance, quality is anything and everything, so any non essential effort is over-capitalizing.
Brand building is all about loading up on quality to fool customers into buying the product again, while not noticing that the quality is reduced. The psy brand has been built, as people go to parties with expectations and good memories. But delivery is disappointing because any effort spent on a cash cow is pointless.

I really think the genre needs boycotting until organizers start doing some brand building again.
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 12:08
There are a lot of different styles in the genre now. Meaning that lots of people do not like a lot of things. So what is to someone a bare minimum passable standard, is amazing music to someone else.

It is the way things are right now.
Dunno, speaking for my self I don't worry about it, I just make the music I like to hear nowdays, but don't as most people are into doing something I am not into.

Its a personal thing. I don't travel much, I don't nearly make enough money from music to live on, just make some cash that I can spend back into the studio and that is great.

Solution to this. Check the line ups of parties you are thinking about going, check the samples of music you are thinking about getting. If you don't like something, don't go to the party/don't buy the music.

Problem solved.
          
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
bukboy
Hyperboreans

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  803
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 12:36
Nectarios - last time I did exactly that. Guess what the guys have some wicked tunes on the web, but they don't play those.

They play other stuff that is the equivalent of filler. Its almost like they dumb down the act. Well thats my experience on a number of occasions anyway.

I thought I had it figured out. Didn't. It's like interesting stuff is for brand promotion. crap is for consumption and cash cow milking.
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 13:12
Dunno what to say mate, just keep doing your thing.
It all depends on the goals one has. It took me years to get the big guys to hear the music, let alone play it.

If you love something enough it is bound to happen, sooner or later.

          
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  104
Posts :  1047
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 16:36
Quote:

On 2013-06-21 10:22, bukboy wrote:
Any marketer will tell you that their job is to optimize returns by bringing the product to a market at the quality and price level the market is willing to pay.



This looks like a big problem. This steady position don´t let the "good" tracks number to grow, as there´s no audience. And the little audience that want those "good" tracks can´t find them.

I´m with Nectarios here. Listen/buy the music you like. Produce/Dj the music you like.

It´s kind of funny, because most of the discussions on this topic bring back the goa fans. And I´m not really one of them. Sometimes I feel that I don´t belong to this discussion, but overall I feel the same with the same music from last 10 years.           LOADING...
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  162
Posts :  8087
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 17:03
one day there will be more producers than guys to buy the releases in the psytrance scene lol

don t mean it s bad..it s not about money..but it show it s dying imo
Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 17:07
Quote:

On 2013-06-21 17:03, PoM wrote:
one day there will be more producers than guys to buy the release in the psytrance scene lol


If you think about the people that actually buy music, I think we are already there. Which again is of no consequence, really. Some people will still make the music they want, regardless of money, gigs...whatever, because they love spending time doing it.

Its like them miniature ships in bottles, thing...no cares, yet some people still do it.
          
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 17:51
Quote:

On 2013-06-21 17:07, Nectarios wrote:
Quote:

On 2013-06-21 17:03, PoM wrote:
one day there will be more producers than guys to buy the release in the psytrance scene lol


If you think about the people that actually buy music, I think we are already there. Which again is of no consequence, really. Some people will still make the music they want, regardless of money, gigs...whatever, because they love spending time doing it.

Its like them miniature ships in bottles, thing...no cares, yet some people still do it.




but I sense that there's a public for the good psychedelic music. the scene has degraded the quality because of bad labels and greedy organizers that run events like bankers do: the ultimate goal is the profit and just that. there are, of course, some exceptions to this, I think boom festival is a good example of a festival with a larger cultural input and a more diverse offer of music, doesn't just role with the big names that everybody knows. in a way, I feel that the events themselves and their quality create a certain kind of public. I've been through the situation where I went with some friends to a party and they didn't like it. I couldn't possibly blame them: it was just bad music and people drugged out of their minds there, not a pretty thing to look at. And opinions are formed like that, in a second or two.

I think, at this point (why wait?) some effort should be done to start some alternative scene and build a good image and quality standards for it. Simply put, the music we like, the kind of atmosphere we like, so forth and so on. It's not like it's the big festivals or nothing. I don't even think that the public that attends big festivals with cheesy music would be interested in this all together, despite the name being the same - "psytrance" -, it covers a wide range of music today. We need something else, I think.

I already do what you said: I just buy the music I like and I just go to festivals that I know I'm going to like to.Of course I just make music that I enjoy to. But responsible consumerism (and production) isn't the answer to everything. There's room for better, more dedicated and professional labels and to the birth of new organizers and promoters with a new mindset and attitude so as to give a fresh face to this scene or build an alternative for the degenerated one so many of us here are complaining about. I've thought about this quite often tbo. Don't know what you guys think about that.
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  162
Posts :  8087
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 18:42
lot of freaks,hippies..dont even listen psytrance anymore, it just a very small % maybe..that the biggest fail ..that this crowd gor turned off by this scene more and more since the 90s
ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  104
Posts :  1047
Posted : Jun 21, 2013 19:39
Quote:

On 2013-06-21 18:42, PoM wrote:
lot of freaks,hippies..dont even listen psytrance anymore, it just a very small % maybe..that the biggest fail ..that this crowd gor turned off by this scene more and more since the 90s



True. I´m not a freak nor a hippie. But there´s no doubt that they was part of the magic, with the "careless" spirit. From famous Space Tribe track and also a cliche: "Dancing like noboby is watching."           LOADING...
Epoptes
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  16
Posts :  93
Posted : Jun 22, 2013 15:24
Usually when the underground become comertial is a shit           http://soundcloud.com/epoptes/tracks
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Jun 22, 2013 16:48
so... what do freaks and hippies listen to these days? XD

"and it is a much more amphetamine oriented sound" (babube)

and it's a much more amphetamine oriented crowd as well. back in the old days, the mindset (or whatever you want to call it) used to be psychedelic. Different substances bring with them a set of values and help shape our view of reality. The music shows this all to well: there's plenty of more "body" oriented music with tons of energy but less complexity. It's just rave music, the term psychedelic no longer applies when you cease to expect to be surprised. no way around that, right?

repetition of the same old formulas only leads to boredom! this used to be about pushing the limits in sound design and creativity and exploring new territory. I don't think that those 10 rules are key for any of what I'm saying here: off beat or 1/12 grid is just that: ways of arranging and composing. what I don't like is lack of creativity and rolling with the same ball expecting the crowds to keep the interest and the money flowing. however, there's no doubt in my mind that the psychedelic electronic music still has a lot of cards to play and that there's plenty of creative and impressively talented people out there making more exciting new music every day. many of them are here on this very forum.

but I think a redefinition of terms is needed. and the only way to surpass the current situation is, quite simply, to create another one. art is all about that: exercising the right to have a voice, to be able to put our ideas out there with the rest.
Trance Forum » » Forum  Production & Music Making - why psytrance has become SHIT
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